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Home > Archive > Hearing loss support > August 2005 > Any hearing aids optimized for listening to music?
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Any hearing aids optimized for listening to music?
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| dlhodges2@gmail.com 2005-08-20, 10:51 pm |
| I wonder if any of you have ever searched for hearing aids that are
especially good for listening to music.
My current aids are Oticon DigiFocus bought in 1997 and they are good,
but not as good as listening via headphones to stereo. At concerts
(classical music usually), I have a dilemma of whether to leave them on
and hear an over loud sound with excess volume from the highs or to
take them off and have a more natural beautiful sound at the price of
losing quieter passages and quieter instruments.
I gather that the modern hearing aids are optimized for speech and no
attention has been given to reproducing music well. I hope some brand
is good for music.
Thanks. Dan
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| Steve B. 2005-08-20, 10:51 pm |
| dlhodges2@gmail.com said:
> I wonder if any of you have ever searched for hearing aids that are
> especially good for listening to music.
>
> My current aids are Oticon DigiFocus bought in 1997 and they are good,
> but not as good as listening via headphones to stereo. At concerts
> (classical music usually), I have a dilemma of whether to leave them on
> and hear an over loud sound with excess volume from the highs or to
> take them off and have a more natural beautiful sound at the price of
> losing quieter passages and quieter instruments.
>
> I gather that the modern hearing aids are optimized for speech and no
> attention has been given to reproducing music well.
I think, for the most part, that's true. Hearing aids don't reproduce
anything over about 5-6K though some of us (not me :-( ) still have some
hearing at higher frequencies.
You might get your audiologist to give you a programme with more
compression. This will make the music sound a little less 'natural' but the
loud passages won't be amplified as much and so may not sound 'over loud' as
they do now. Any music with a wide dynamic range is going to be
problematical - you need amplification to hear the quiet passages, but the
same amount of amplification will make loud passages overly loud, and the
more compression or limiting you introduce to to tame the loud passages, the
more 'unnatural' things sound.
> I hope some brand
> is good for music.
I don't think any brand has given music a thought more than any other. The
primary aim with hearing aids to to allow people to understand speech, and
this is where all the research goes. I'd be interested in what might be
possible if some company applied their resources to making the perception of
music as natural and enjoyable as possible.
Steve = : ^ )
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| Woodswun 2005-08-21, 8:52 am |
| dlhodges2@gmail.com wrote:
> I wonder if any of you have ever searched for hearing aids that are
> especially good for listening to music.
>
> My current aids are Oticon DigiFocus bought in 1997 and they are good,
> but not as good as listening via headphones to stereo. At concerts
> (classical music usually), I have a dilemma of whether to leave them on
> and hear an over loud sound with excess volume from the highs or to
> take them off and have a more natural beautiful sound at the price of
> losing quieter passages and quieter instruments.
>
Live concerts typically do not have the sound quality that is achieved
by the use of headphones.
> I gather that the modern hearing aids are optimized for speech and no
> attention has been given to reproducing music well. I hope some brand
> is good for music.
Possibly, but I think the matter is probably, at least partially, one of
a matter of acoustics and control of recordings on CDs. Concerts just
don't sound as good. (I recall that from my hearing days, and just
asked my other half, who has normal hearing).
Woods
>
> Thanks. Dan
>
| |
| zafdor@yahoo.com 2005-08-21, 5:52 pm |
| >Live concerts typically do not have the sound quality that is achieved by the use of headphones. <
Huh? Does this mean live concerts will be replaced by people listening
to headphones?
Try any modern digital programmed with all the noise reduction & speech
enhancement off and I think you will find they sound pretty good. As
was previously stated, if you have hearing >8KHz, god bless you, but
the instruments will probably be no good up there.
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| Woodswun 2005-08-21, 5:52 pm |
| zafdor@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> Huh? Does this mean live concerts will be replaced by people listening
> to headphones?
Um .... I'm not sure where you'd assume that. I was merely pointing out
that the sound quality at a live concert typically does not measure up
to headphones. Period.
>
> Try any modern digital programmed with all the noise reduction & speech
> enhancement off and I think you will find they sound pretty good. As
> was previously stated, if you have hearing >8KHz, god bless you, but
> the instruments will probably be no good up there.
>
I believe you've missed the entire point of my post. Of course a
concert can sound "good" with hearing aids, but the original poster was
expecting the same excellent quality that you get with headphones, which
not even normal hearing people experience at live concerts. Just
pointing that out, is all. Sorry if it touched some kind of nerve.
Woods
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| zafdor@yahoo.com 2005-08-21, 10:52 pm |
| Well, there's probably few things stranger then two HA people
discussing high quality sound reproduction. My preference is live
music over headphones hands down. A cheap set of headphones will block
external sounds and give excellent directionality, but I think you will
find few audiophiles that have given up their magneplanars for
headphones.
You're right I missed the comment up front on headphones, but these are
not the definition of high quality sound. The OP was right, modern
instruments (HAs) are normally tuned for speech which is likely what
is causing his problem. His best bet is to ignore us both and talk to
his audie about this!
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| Archie Ewing 2005-08-22, 5:51 pm |
| Many modern digital aids to have a "music" program which provides frequency
correction but switches off noise reduction and other sound processing
necessary for increased speech intelligibility and allows the maximumum
frequency range that the aids are capable of (i.e. up to about 6k). I use
Phonak Perseos but I expect many other good quality makes have similar
programs. I certainly find my experience of live music is enhanced by my
hearing aids. I can even hear the piccolos, triangles and cymbals again! You
might need to upgrade yor hearing aids but make sure you try listening to
live music during the trial period.
Archie
<dlhodges2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124580360.070017.191520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I wonder if any of you have ever searched for hearing aids that are
> especially good for listening to music.
>
> My current aids are Oticon DigiFocus bought in 1997 and they are good,
> but not as good as listening via headphones to stereo. At concerts
> (classical music usually), I have a dilemma of whether to leave them on
> and hear an over loud sound with excess volume from the highs or to
> take them off and have a more natural beautiful sound at the price of
> losing quieter passages and quieter instruments.
>
> I gather that the modern hearing aids are optimized for speech and no
> attention has been given to reproducing music well. I hope some brand
> is good for music.
>
> Thanks. Dan
>
| |
|
| This is a simplistic post. If you monitor this group you will learn
that hearing loss takes a multitude of forms and you cannot compare
HAs without relating them to one specific form of loss.
Most of the major brands of aids have similar capabilities. What is
almost infinitely variable are the forms that hearing loss take.
If you find a good audiologist you will find that he/she will be able
to program your aids so as to gain for you the maximum ability to hear
and enjoy music. But, for instance, if, like me, you have no hearing
above 1400 then you will never beable to hear violins, symphony
orchestras, whatever because no hearing aid on earth can do the
impossible.
| |
| dlhodges2@gmail.com 2005-08-23, 11:49 am |
| I want to thank you all for your input from various perspectives. In
the time since I wrote my first note I did what I should have done
before I wrote--namely, I checked for previous posts on music. I found
a wealth of wisdom and experience. I gather there's no clear consensus
on a "best" HA for music and that the audiologist can set one or two of
the programs to best adapt to music.
I was aware that no HA can match good headphones for overall quality,
only to differentially adjust for various frequencies. I must have
sounded like I hoped for that. Sorry.
I was just wondering if other brands than Oticon can do music
better--and without losing the good things that Oticon does. I've seen
Canta 7 and Phonak Perseo suggested. And so far no one has hinted that
the technological pipeline has something coming along that is worth
waiting for. I don't want to spend $6000-plus and then regret it.
I notice that some of you listed your hearing loss at various
frequencies in order to help others think about the issues raised. so
I'll do that.
Right ear
500 70db down
1K 75
2K 65
4K 55
6K 60
Left ear
500 55db down
1K 50
2K 55
4K 75
6K 90
Right ear has poor speech discrimination, too.
--Dan
| |
| kooch 2005-08-23, 11:49 am |
| I'm currently trialling Bernafon HAs with the ultra-fast "Channelfree"
operating system. Eliminating multiple bands and all but a single
channel, these aids introduce significantly less distortion than is
produced by conventional digital HAs, and the clarity of both speech
and music is quite noticeable...
The only adjustment required is to have the comprehensive Oasis
software program turn on the aids' Music program.
| |
|
| Sorry, Dan, didn't see your last post before I posted...
Both Oticon and Bernafon are sister divisions of the William Demant
Holding Group. They share R&D information, etc. Oticon tends to
distribute its instruments only through audie clinics, etc.
Bernafon is currently marketing honestly new designs developed during
the past 9 years. They have also developed a comprehensive and quite
complex companion software fitting program (Oasis) that uses leading
edge "in situ" procedures... the hearing aids are first fitted to your
ears, then connected to the computer program, and you and the fitter
can use the detailed graphs on the computer screen to actually adjust
and compare various settings, before selecting the best one...
The complex computer fitting programs make it possible for any
experienced computer user to follow the directions for an unbelievably
accurate initial fitting. So you can get identical results from an
audiologist at a private clinic who fits the new aids using this
software package, and an certified fitter at a Costco hearing center
who fits the new aids using this same software package...
Prospective purchasers need to be aware of the price differences for
these identical services...
kooch
| |
| helco 2005-08-23, 10:56 pm |
|
<dlhodges2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124580360.070017.191520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I wonder if any of you have ever searched for hearing aids that are
> especially good for listening to music.
>
> My current aids are Oticon DigiFocus bought in 1997 and they are good,
> but not as good as listening via headphones to stereo. At concerts
> (classical music usually), I have a dilemma of whether to leave them on
> and hear an over loud sound with excess volume from the highs or to
> take them off and have a more natural beautiful sound at the price of
> losing quieter passages and quieter instruments.
>
> I gather that the modern hearing aids are optimized for speech and no
> attention has been given to reproducing music well. I hope some brand
> is good for music.
>
> Thanks. Dan
Does your concert hall offer an infrared transmission system? (Most
theaters and movie houses have them now.) If so, you can borrow headphones
from them and perhaps the sound will approach the quality that you get with
headphones at home. The volume is adjustable. If you have a chance, check
ahead of time to find out where the best seating is, since there can be some
dead spots. Also, if possible make sure the headphones work before you take
them (learned that the hard way). I'm looking into some ALD's that have an
infrared attachment that receives at the same frequency used in most
theaters etc., so you can listen through your own earbuds. The tone can be
adjusted as well as the volume.
Helen
| |
| Woodswun 2005-08-23, 10:56 pm |
| zafdor@yahoo.com wrote:
> Well, there's probably few things stranger then two HA people
> discussing high quality sound reproduction. My preference is live
> music over headphones hands down. A cheap set of headphones will block
> external sounds and give excellent directionality, but I think you will
> find few audiophiles that have given up their magneplanars for
> headphones.
Really? Hmmm, both my husband and I much preferred headphones over live
performances (he still does, still can hear <g> ). Of course, we don't
get the cheap headphones, and have invested in very high quality
soundcards for our computers. If you're using cheap equipment, then
yeah, I'd be with you on that.
>
> You're right I missed the comment up front on headphones, but these are
> not the definition of high quality sound. The OP was right, modern
> instruments (HAs) are normally tuned for speech which is likely what
> is causing his problem. His best bet is to ignore us both and talk to
> his audie about this!
>
Yup, you're probably right on that.
Woods
| |
| Woodswun 2005-08-23, 10:56 pm |
| helco wrote:
> <dlhodges2@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1124580360.070017.191520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> Does your concert hall offer an infrared transmission system? (Most
> theaters and movie houses have them now.) If so, you can borrow headphones
> from them and perhaps the sound will approach the quality that you get with
> headphones at home. The volume is adjustable. If you have a chance, check
> ahead of time to find out where the best seating is, since there can be some
> dead spots. Also, if possible make sure the headphones work before you take
> them (learned that the hard way). I'm looking into some ALD's that have an
> infrared attachment that receives at the same frequency used in most
> theaters etc., so you can listen through your own earbuds. The tone can be
> adjusted as well as the volume.
>
> Helen
>
>
The only problem with headphones, and the reason I don't use them as
often as I'd like, is that they amplify everything equally, so if you're
adjusting the volume for, say, high frequencies that you have trouble
hearing, you're getting over-blasted on the lower frequencies (assuming
that you don't have an equal loss across all frequencies).
It would be nice if you could recieve wireless feed into your HAs, and
have it automatically amplified according to your programming. :-)
(Or even little wires to plug right into your HAs for a direct feed).
Woods
| |
|
| My phonaks - even my first set - accept a DAI shoe - direct audio input
- and enable me to receive feed from any source whichi accepts a
standard plug. For about $1k more you can can gear like microlink
(search the group) where the shoe is a tiny fm receiver and you can
attach the transmitter to any sound source - even a lecturer.
My hearing is so shot now that I rarely bother with music (except the
masses of it stored in my skull which if can enjoy any time without
wires).
| |
| pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com 2005-08-24, 8:57 am |
| Re: feed of earphones into HA's...
I noted last year when I wasn't given any other option than to train
for a state test on computer, that my HAs' telecoil setting worked with
the cheapo earphones I was given for the task. I could leave the BTEs
on with the earphone right over the ear, and the magnet would pick up
the sound. Bet higher-end earphones would do that even better.
| |
| pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com 2005-08-24, 8:57 am |
| Dan wrote:
>(snip) Other brands than Oticon for music
Yep. Widex Divas have a music setting I'm very happy with. Since my
hearing loss was already in progress when I entered music school, I'm
not as picky as my colleagues about high fidelity. Nonetheless, I do
know when I'm missing voices, low notes or overtones, and particularly
when it's a piece whose sound I know, it is very painful to listen
without all those sounds. Therefore, I think my assessment of the
Divas' program is reasonably reliable. However, I have not used any
other music programs on HAs; I have no basis for comparing the Divas'
to any other.
| |
| Holger Lillqvist 2005-08-24, 8:57 am |
| Woodswun wrote:
> It would be nice if you could recieve wireless feed into your HAs, and
> have it automatically amplified according to your programming. :-)
> (Or even little wires to plug right into your HAs for a direct feed).
DAI (direct audio input) is the answer... It is an Y shaped chord which
plugs into any audio source, and with shoes which snap on to your HAs.
I started using DAI a few months ago - the sound quality amazed me and
still does.
The DAI wires hanging from your HAs and the need to take off the HAs
to snap the shoes on and off is slighgtly awkward, so I use DAI mostly
for 'serious' music listening, full length films etc. For ocasional TV
watching and for free style listening outdoors (FM-radio, mp3) I mostly
prefer my Sennheiser neckloop, which gives a nice sound quality for
allround use.
To my surprise the loop, which is part of the Sennheiser FM wireless
system, works very well when plugged to all kinds of sources, without
any battery giving power to the loop. So the battery in the Sennheiser
receiver unit which must be recharged every day is primarily for the FM
receiver, not for the loop.
Holger
| |
| Woodswun 2005-08-24, 10:51 pm |
| Ken wrote:
> My phonaks - even my first set - accept a DAI shoe - direct audio input
> - and enable me to receive feed from any source whichi accepts a
> standard plug. For about $1k more you can can gear like microlink
> (search the group) where the shoe is a tiny fm receiver and you can
> attach the transmitter to any sound source - even a lecturer.
thanks for the info - I'll have to look into that for my next set (in
another 5 years or so).
>
> My hearing is so shot now that I rarely bother with music (except the
> masses of it stored in my skull which if can enjoy any time without
> wires).
>
Sorry to hear that.
Woods
| |
| Woodswun 2005-08-24, 10:51 pm |
| pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com wrote:
> Re: feed of earphones into HA's...
>
> I noted last year when I wasn't given any other option than to train
> for a state test on computer, that my HAs' telecoil setting worked with
> the cheapo earphones I was given for the task. I could leave the BTEs
> on with the earphone right over the ear, and the magnet would pick up
> the sound. Bet higher-end earphones would do that even better.
>
Thanks for the info. I'm trying that, but am getting quite a bit of
feedback/loopback in one HA. :-(
I'll see if my audiologist thinks she can do anything about that.
Woods
| |
| Woodswun 2005-08-24, 10:51 pm |
| Holger Lillqvist wrote:
> Woodswun wrote:
>
>
>
> DAI (direct audio input) is the answer... It is an Y shaped chord which
> plugs into any audio source, and with shoes which snap on to your HAs.
> I started using DAI a few months ago - the sound quality amazed me and
> still does.
>
> The DAI wires hanging from your HAs and the need to take off the HAs
> to snap the shoes on and off is slighgtly awkward, so I use DAI mostly
> for 'serious' music listening, full length films etc. For ocasional TV
> watching and for free style listening outdoors (FM-radio, mp3) I mostly
> prefer my Sennheiser neckloop, which gives a nice sound quality for
> allround use.
>
> To my surprise the loop, which is part of the Sennheiser FM wireless
> system, works very well when plugged to all kinds of sources, without
> any battery giving power to the loop. So the battery in the Sennheiser
> receiver unit which must be recharged every day is primarily for the FM
> receiver, not for the loop.
>
> Holger
Thanks for the info, I'll look into the DAI. Not sure that FM wireless
would be suitable for me, although I know nothing about it.
Woods
| |
|
| You can eliminate all feedback by using your T-coil. T-coils LOVE
headphones - at least the big ones which cover your ears - not those
microscopic ones they have nowdays. Also, if profoundly deaf, check the
sensitivity - aim for 105 or better.
| |
| Holger Lillqvist 2005-08-25, 5:54 pm |
| Woodswun wrote:
> Thanks for the info, I'll look into the DAI.
Certainly worth it. I added a small level attenuator and it works
like a charm:
http://www.headphone.com/guide/by-m...re-pa235-level-
attenuator.php
> Not sure that FM wireless would be suitable for me, although I know
> nothing about it.
The Sennheiser loop is handy and works well, but of course it is not
high end nor even hifi, so it is not for you (all loops cut high end
frequency ;). I like it as a complement to DAI.
Holger
| |
| pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com 2005-08-25, 10:55 pm |
| Woodswun wrote:
> pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. I'm trying that, but am getting quite a bit of
> feedback/loopback in one HA. :-(
>
> I'll see if my audiologist thinks she can do anything about that.
>
> Woods
Glunk. I hadn't thought about the fact that those cheapo earphones
didn't cover my (BTE) hearing aids. Larger, more expensive earphones
probably do, and give feedback. The cheapo ones just covered my ears,
not my aids as well. The other thing is that with the cheapo earphones,
only one side produced sound.
| |
| Woodswun 2005-08-26, 5:53 pm |
| Ken wrote:
> You can eliminate all feedback by using your T-coil. T-coils LOVE
> headphones - at least the big ones which cover your ears - not those
> microscopic ones they have nowdays. Also, if profoundly deaf, check the
> sensitivity - aim for 105 or better.
>
Somehow, I'm getting feedback using my T-coil. I've tried it with and
without any sound being fed into the headphones. I think I'll mention
it to my audiologist during my next visit, and see if she can do
anything about it.
Woods
| |
| Woodswun 2005-08-26, 5:53 pm |
| pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com wrote:
> Woodswun wrote:
>
>
>
> Glunk. I hadn't thought about the fact that those cheapo earphones
> didn't cover my (BTE) hearing aids. Larger, more expensive earphones
> probably do, and give feedback. The cheapo ones just covered my ears,
> not my aids as well. The other thing is that with the cheapo earphones,
> only one side produced sound.
>
Hey - thanks!! I just tried one of my kids' cheapo headphones, and it
works!!! Oh, and one of my kids will be very thankful to you, too! ;-)
Woods
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