Depression Medications - Things are going quite well at ASDMed these days

Author

Things are going quite well at ASDMed these days

LostBoyinNC

2005-06-21, 10:52 pm

Things have been going quite well with the new policy being implemented
here at ASDMed. Not responding to several posters here has gone
remarkably well. This NG has calmed down tremendously in a very short
time and discussions seem to have gone back to positive and productive
posts about medications. Flame wars have decreased to about nil,
sockpuppet posts are pretty much gone, agenda based anti-med posts have
decreased dramatically. These have all been objectives of mine for a
while.

Lets continue this policy of giving these several problematic posters
the "cold shoulder" indefinitely...forever basically. I believe thats
the only thing that will restore this NG to a usable resource.

Remember...do not respond to these people no matter how crazy,
libellious, inflammatory, degrading, illegal or whatever else their
posts are. Remain self disciplined and consciously deliberate in your
nonresponse and they will go away entirely in time as they become too
bored to post here.

Thank you all for the help. Keep it up...

Eric

LostBoyinNC

2005-06-21, 10:52 pm

LostBoyinNC, <Deepsand562@aol.com>, the lily-livered, contorted germ, and
pit winch operator, bawled:

> Things have been going quite well with the new policy being
> implemented here at ASDMed. Not responding to several posters here
> has gone remarkably well. This NG has calmed down tremendously in a
> very short time and discussions seem to have gone back to positive
> and productive posts about medications. Flame wars have decreased to
> about nil, sockpuppet posts are pretty much gone, agenda based
> anti-med posts have decreased dramatically.

Really?

> These have all been
> objectives of mine for a while.

So much for that, eh.

> Lets continue this policy of giving these several problematic posters
> the "cold shoulder" indefinitely...forever basically.

So much for that, eh.

> Remember...do not respond to these people no matter how crazy,
> libellious, inflammatory, degrading, illegal or whatever else their
> posts are. Remain self disciplined and consciously deliberate in
> your nonresponse and they will go away entirely in time as they
> become too bored to post here.

So much for that, eh.

--
Thou usurer's man. Thou haught insulting man.

Jake

2005-06-22, 11:48 am

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:08:50 +0545, "LostBoyinNC"
<D33ps4nd562@40l.c0m> wrote:

>LostBoyinNC, <Deepsand562@aol.com>, the lily-livered, contorted germ, and
>pit winch operator, bawled:
>
>
>Really?
>
>
>So much for that, eh.
>
>
>So much for that, eh.
>
>
>So much for that, eh.

you have got to admire eric for giving a long detailed post on how
subscribers can best deal with his abusive and sadistic postings
and flames...

:> )

Vornan

2005-06-22, 5:51 pm

Eric,

I was reading some of your older posts about having low testosterone.
Did you start testosterone replacement therapy, and if so, did you
recover your sex drive? Thanks.

Vornan

LostBoyinNC

2005-06-22, 5:51 pm

Vornan wrote:
> Eric,
>
> I was reading some of your older posts about having low testosterone.
> Did you start testosterone replacement therapy, and if so, did you
> recover your sex drive? Thanks.
>

I took Androgel for about six months, but went off of it for reasons Im
too bored right now to talk about. Very busy. But yes, it did restore
my sex drive somewhat. Not to 100% or anything, but it did help. Also
helped my mood some.

Eric

Vornan

2005-06-22, 5:51 pm

Thanks. Why do you think it didn't get you to 100%? Do you know what
your T levels were at when you were on it? I'm very concerned that my
libido is so low. It was always very high until I took celexa for two
years from 2001-2003. Since then it has been low. I have borderline
low T.

Vornan

LostBoyinNC

2005-06-22, 5:51 pm

Vornan wrote:
> Thanks. Why do you think it didn't get you to 100%?

I have no idea.

Do you know what
> your T levels were at when you were on it?

Yeah...initially the effect was real strong but that affect "pooped
out" after about two months, leaving me with a rather anemic
testosterone effect. When I got my testosterone levels rechecked three
months after beginning Androgel, my free serum T had just barely
crossed back into the normal range. And my total serum testosterone had
not gone up at all. All in all a pretty halfassed testosterone
"recovery."

Dont ask me why. I have no XXXXing idea.

I'm very concerned that my
> libido is so low. It was always very high until I took celexa for two
> years from 2001-2003. Since then it has been low. I have borderline
> low T.

Well there you go...thats your problem most likely. Whats your total
serum T? Some of these dweeb XXX doctors family doctors will only put
you on testosterone if your free serum testosterone levels drop below
normal, but an endocrinologist I consulted with on low testosterine (it
was his specialty) told me that if your TOTAL serum T was below 300
ng/dl, you probably should be on testosterone. Mine has been like 200
ng/dl everytime I checked it, even when I was on Androgel. Go figure...

My dx is "secondary" hypogonadism...meaning the problem is CNS based,
not testicular based. Its most likely secondary to my prolonged and
very severe depression as severe depression affects negatively the
areas of your brain that depression affects...the pituitary gland and
hypothalamus.

When stress levels are severe and prolonged in men, cortisol levels
tend to rise...and testosterone levels tend to decrease. Additionally,
some of these psychiatry medications are not the best things in the
world for maintaining high testosterone levels...most psychiatry drugs
increase estrogen levels in fact.

Eric

Vornan

2005-06-22, 5:51 pm

Thanks Eric. My total serum T is 375. Not out of the normal range,
but not great either. My free T is also low: 68 pg/mL. What was your
free T?
I've been researching this subject extensively, and I know why it
didn't sustain your sex drive long-term and why your T levels didn't
increase significantly long-term. Basically what happens is that when
you start taking exogenous T, it adds to your body's own production at
first, but if you have secondary hypogonadism, your hypothalamus and
pituitary will respond to it by downregulating your own production
*even more*. It takes a few weeks for this downregulation to occur, so
it works well at first, but after a couple of months there is no *net*
gain in T. If you had tested yourself shortly after beginning androgel
(1-2 weeks) you probably would have found your T was about 500 or so.
The only way to get around this downregulation effect is to increase
the dose of androgel. Were you taking 1 packet per day (5 grams)? If
so, upping to 10 grams/day might solve the problem. In any case, I'm
very encouraged that you saw positive results. Was your sex drive
preety good when you first went on it? Say 50% or so of baseline? I'd
be satisfied with that.
An alternative therapy for secondary hypo is to take Human Chorionic
Gonadotropin (HCG), which is very effective at stimulating your
testicles to make more T. It can be taken in combination with clomid
or nolvadex to anhance this effect.

Vornan

LostBoyinNC

2005-06-22, 5:51 pm

Vornan wrote:
> Thanks Eric. My total serum T is 375.

total serum T of 375 isnt great, but its not truly low either.

Not out of the normal range,
> but not great either. My free T is also low: 68 pg/mL. What was your
> free T?

I cant remember but it was below the cutoff mark.

> I've been researching this subject extensively, and I know why it
> didn't sustain your sex drive long-term and why your T levels didn't
> increase significantly long-term. Basically what happens is that when
> you start taking exogenous T, it adds to your body's own production at
> first, but if you have secondary hypogonadism, your hypothalamus and
> pituitary will respond to it by downregulating your own production
> *even more*. It takes a few weeks for this downregulation to occur, so
> it works well at first, but after a couple of months there is no *net*
> gain in T.

That sounds about right...

If you had tested yourself shortly after beginning androgel
> (1-2 weeks) you probably would have found your T was about 500 or so.

Id agree with this...

> The only way to get around this downregulation effect is to increase
> the dose of androgel. Were you taking 1 packet per day (5 grams)? If
> so, upping to 10 grams/day might solve the problem.

Yeah, I started out on the standard 5 gram packet of Androgel and when
my three month bloodwork came back still showing anemic improvement,
both my endocrinologist (androgen specialist) and my family doctor
wanted to boost it up to 10 mg. I was like "no way" then after a few
months at 10 mg it will probably poop out again and Im not playing
games with my hormones like that.

It just seemed stupid to me.

In any case, I'm
> very encouraged that you saw positive results. Was your sex drive
> preety good when you first went on it? Say 50% or so of baseline? I'd
> be satisfied with that.

My libido improved an awful lot the first two months, then after I had
the "crash" it decreased a lot, but still was better than it is on ADs.
Id say the first two months I had about a 50% improvement in sex drive.
I also began experiencing early morning erections...a sign of better
quality sleep from what I understand. I stopped experiencing early
morning erections as soon as I developed major depression in late 97.
And my sleep was screwed all to hell back then too. Its still not good.

> An alternative therapy for secondary hypo is to take Human Chorionic
> Gonadotropin (HCG), which is very effective at stimulating your
> testicles to make more T. It can be taken in combination with clomid
> or nolvadex to anhance this effect.

Yeah, Ive read about HCG and thought about trying it. But Ive read your
body adjusts to that as well. I dont know man...secondary testosterone
deficiency is harder to treat than primary hypogonadism it seems. If
its CNS based...youre XXXXed. That endocrinologist I saw Im sure could
rx that to me, my family doctor couldnt...to complicated for him. The
Clomid decreases estrogen in your body...good for increasing
testosterone.

I bet ECT would improve testosterone production by stimulating the
pituitary and hypothalamus.

Nearly all these psych meds increase estrogen in the male body...bad.

The weird thing is that if you looked at me and didnt know anything
about me, youd NEVER guess I have low testosterone levels. Youd
probably think I had the other...high testosterone with my appearance.
And Im also still quite strong despite quite low testosterone levels.
Much of strength is CNS based...nervous system based I have read.
Americans have been conditioned to believe strength is mostly due to
testosterone and steroid type substances, but I can assure you the CNS
is involved in strength tremendously.

This is why the mentally deranged oftentimes are superhumanly strong.
Their brain wiring is all XXXXed up, creating high physical strength
levels in some cases, particularly when psychosis or mania are present.

Sometimes I think I should just shoot myself and get it over with.

Eric

Vornan

2005-06-22, 10:50 pm

I don't think 10g/day or androgel would be harmful, but it's your
decision of course. Sometimes it requires a high dose of exogenous T
followed by a course of HCG/Clomid/Nolvadex to reset the
hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular axis long-term.

I agree with you that you can't tell low T from appearance. Since my T
has been low, I haven't lost muscle or my beard growth hasn't slowed at
all.

I also agree that strength can be largely influenced by adrenalin and
other CNS hormones.

I don't believe in ECT as a therapy. Seems barbaric to me. Well, I
don't believe in psychiatry at all basically. It's all about money,
control and power. The whole thing is a house of cards.

Why are you thinking of shooting yourself? What's going on? Are you
taking any medication right now?

Vornan

Jake

2005-06-22, 10:50 pm

On 22 Jun 2005 15:48:16 -0700, "LostBoyinNC" <Deepsand562@aol.com>
wrote:

>I bet ECT would improve testosterone production by stimulating the
>pituitary and hypothalamus.
>
>Nearly all these psych meds increase estrogen in the male body...bad.

would you care to post some evidence for this bizzare assertion?

--
people subscribing to this group have the right to know
that your statements are a reflection of your demented
agenda to proselytize ECT regardless of questioners
circumstances or condition..and bear no actual
relationship to reality..

LostBoyinNC

2005-06-22, 10:50 pm

Vornan wrote:
> I don't think 10g/day or androgel would be harmful, but it's your
> decision of course.

No, I dont think 10 mg androgel would be harmful at all either. I just
didnt want to do it because I figured if 5 grams pooped out on me, 10
mg would too. Ive been thru all this shit a million times with
antidepressants before and even the Androgel did this on me.

After a while you just get tired of it man.

Sometimes it requires a high dose of exogenous T
> followed by a course of HCG/Clomid/Nolvadex to reset the
> hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular axis long-term.

Interesting...Ive read about this sort of thing before. Bodybuilder
pharmacology stuff. You seem to be knowledgeable about this stuff you
should hang around you seem to have some knowledge to offer. I could go
back to that endocrinologist and get some of that exotic stuff rxed to
me Im sure.

>
> I agree with you that you can't tell low T from appearance. Since my T
> has been low, I haven't lost muscle or my beard growth hasn't slowed at
> all.

Definitely...I even applied to be a bouncer tonight at a strip joint.
Nobody knows I have low testosterone. I look (an am in fact) strong as
hell even with low testosterone.

>
> I also agree that strength can be largely influenced by adrenalin and
> other CNS hormones.

As well as with neurotransmitters like dopamine. When I take any
dopamine med I get much, much stronger. The mentally deranged are
oftentimes extremely strong.

>
> I don't believe in ECT as a therapy. Seems barbaric to me. Well, I
> don't believe in psychiatry at all basically. It's all about money,
> control and power. The whole thing is a house of cards.

Well, I believe in ECT but only for severe and med resistant mood
disorders. Psychiatry is a bunch of bullshit although I dont agree its
about money and power. I just think psychiatrists are a bunch of idiots
basically. A bunch of goofy dweebs who dont know what they are doing
oftentimes.

>
> Why are you thinking of shooting yourself? What's going on? Are you
> taking any medication right now?

LOL Im not really thinking of shooting myself...sometimes i just talk
shit on here. Yes Im on Zoloft right now.
>

later,

Eric

Jake

2005-06-22, 10:50 pm

On 22 Jun 2005 20:06:13 -0700, "LostBoyinNC" <Deepsand562@aol.com>
wrote:

>LOL

LOL?

pretending you are suicidal on a depression support group is about as
funny as cancer..

as unfunny as when you pretended to have had electroshock and urged
all others to have it as it was.. "great and you enjoyed it"

> Im not really thinking of shooting myself...

of course not..your life has been saved by iron pills..remember?

>sometimes i just talk shit on here.

no..generally you talk shit "on here"

> Yes Im on Zoloft right now.

so you say..but then you say a lot of things that change almost
daily..
--
Liars share with those they deceive
the desire not to be deceived.
--Sissela Bok

Nom dePlume

2005-06-27, 9:50 am

Vornan - Low libido can arise from multiple causes. Low testosterone
is certainly one cause, but not the only one. Brain chemistry is
another. If your testosterone and thyroid levels are OK, and you have
no other identified health problem that is relevant, then your libido
might benefit from a dopaminergic medication. Have you tried any?

--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/
=====

"Vornan" <vornan_nineteen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119473961.530874.192490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks. Why do you think it didn't get you to 100%? Do you know
what
> your T levels were at when you were on it? I'm very concerned that
my
> libido is so low. It was always very high until I took celexa for
two
> years from 2001-2003. Since then it has been low. I have
borderline
> low T.
>
> Vornan
>