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Home > Archive > Depression Medications > January 2005 > MH Treatment and Drugs Increase Suicide Rates
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MH Treatment and Drugs Increase Suicide Rates
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| Linda 2005-01-31, 11:38 am |
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Mental Health Policies and Therapeutic Drugs Increase Suicide Rates?
http://www.healthsentinel.com/org_n...list_item&id=19
Roman Bystrianyk, "Mental Health Policies and Therapeutic Drugs Increase
Suicide Rates?", Health Sentinel, January 28, 2005,
It is assumed that national mental health programs, mental health
legislation, therapeutic drugs policies, and substance abuse policies would
be associated with a lower suicide rate given that mental health problems
significantly increase the risk of suicide.
A study published in 2004 in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of
Psychiatry tests this hypothesis by analyzing suicide rates from 100
countries in relation to mental health policy, program, and legislation
indicators. The authors used World Health Organization (WHO) Mortality
database, the WHO Mental Health Atlas, to determine the before-and-after
suicide rates in these countries.
The authors discovered that contrary to their expectations, that the
adoption of mental health policies, mental health legislation, and
therapeutic drug policies were associated with an increase in the countries'
suicide rates. The study showed that there was an increase in the suicide
rate of 8.3 % with adoption of a mental health policy; an increase of 10.6%
in the suicide rate with adoption of mental health legislation; and an
increase of 7.0% in the suicide rate with adoption of the use of therapeutic
drugs.
However, the study did find that a country's adoption of a substance abuse
policy was associated with a decrease of 11.3% in the suicide rate. This
mirrors the findings of studies of changes in alcohol policy within
countries. The authors note that, "if substance abuse policies achieve
reductions in suicide rates where other mental health initiatives fail to do
so, there may be some lessons to be learnt."
The authors state, "If these results are taken at face value, the picture is
bleak. Mental health problems are known to significantly heighten suicide
risk and since most national mental health initiatives would include among
their overarching goals a reduction in suicide rates, it is of concern to
find that national mental health initiatives are associated with an increase
in suicide rates. If this were the case, there would clearly be a need to
rethink the direction of national mental health initiatives world-wide."
The authors of the study do note that the study may be limited by a number
of factors that may have given this unexpected result. They note that there
is a need for further work in this area and a great attention paid to the
relationship between general mental health initiatives and suicide-specific
initiatives.
SOURCE: Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, Nov-Dec 2004
--
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead
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| Squiggles 2005-01-31, 11:38 am |
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Linda wrote:
> Mental Health Policies and Therapeutic Drugs Increase Suicide Rates?
>
> http://www.healthsentinel.com/org_n...list_item&id=19
> Roman Bystrianyk, "Mental Health Policies and Therapeutic Drugs Increase
> Suicide Rates?", Health Sentinel, January 28, 2005,
>
What can we conclude from this?
That the mental health policies and therapeutic drugs are directly
linked to suicide rates on account of their quality; that if they
were removed or replaced, suicide rates would decline? These issues
are not addressed -- looks like a statistical study with no particular
variables shown.
Squiggles
"WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"
- George Orwell, "1984"
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| Linda 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
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"Squiggles" <squiggle@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41FA4F3B.10000@sympatico.ca...
>
>
> Linda wrote:
http://www.healthsentinel.com/org_n...list_item&id=19[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> What can we conclude from this?
>
That that there is a sizable number of people who would rather be dead than
be victimized or revictimized by abusive psych treatments and therapies.
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| Squiggles 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
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Linda wrote:
....
>
>
>
> That that there is a sizable number of people who would rather be dead than
> be victimized or revictimized by abusive psych treatments and therapies.
>
Perhaps... but the health care system as a whole is declining
in the world, not just psychiatry; and psychiatry being a
particularly difficult area of medical practice is more likely
to make errors. I think I have just been lucky, even with
the occasional incidents of difficult adjustment.
Squiggles
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| Grant McKenzie 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
| I have been a victim of the USAF medical care system for over ten years, and
there were times when I want to get out for that sole reason, but then I
became afraid that I wouldn't be able to get ANY meds once I got out - not
to mention a job. Just one example - I was originally diagnosed BP-II, so
what does the doc give me? Pamelor. That's all, just Pamelor.
Coincidently, I started to show an increase in hypomanic and manic symptoms
shortly thereafter, and the docs couldn't figure out what was wrong.
Unfortunately, I didn't learn until much later how dangerous that mistake
was.
G.
"Squiggles" <squiggle@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41FB8CEB.8010407@sympatico.ca...
>
>
> Linda wrote:
>
> ...
>
> Perhaps... but the health care system as a whole is declining
> in the world, not just psychiatry; and psychiatry being a
> particularly difficult area of medical practice is more likely
> to make errors. I think I have just been lucky, even with
> the occasional incidents of difficult adjustment.
>
> Squiggles
>
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| Squiggles 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
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Grant McKenzie wrote:
> I have been a victim of the USAF medical care system for over ten years, and
> there were times when I want to get out for that sole reason, but then I
> became afraid that I wouldn't be able to get ANY meds once I got out - not
> to mention a job. Just one example - I was originally diagnosed BP-II, so
> what does the doc give me? Pamelor. That's all, just Pamelor.
> Coincidently, I started to show an increase in hypomanic and manic symptoms
> shortly thereafter, and the docs couldn't figure out what was wrong.
> Unfortunately, I didn't learn until much later how dangerous that mistake
> was.
>
> G.
>
>
Looks like a typical tricyclic, though I did see a few links
on the net where it is prescribed for bipolars. On the other
hand, I have read on usenet conversations, PubMed, and other
net sources that the worst thing you can give to a bipolar
is a tricyclic. My own personal reaction to imipramine, which
was the first drug I was ever given for depression, may actually
be proof that I am bipolar, as my reaction to it was very negative.
Who knows? :-)
Good luck.
Squiggles
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| Contrarian 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
| Grant McKenzie <gmckenzie1993@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I have been a victim of the USAF medical care system for over ten years, and
> there were times when I want to get out for that sole reason, but then I
> became afraid that I wouldn't be able to get ANY meds once I got out - not
> to mention a job. Just one example - I was originally diagnosed BP-II, so
> what does the doc give me? Pamelor. That's all, just Pamelor.
appalling but I'm afraid, not unique
> Coincidently, I started to show an increase in hypomanic and manic symptoms
> shortly thereafter, and the docs couldn't figure out what was wrong.
one person who until recently posted here a lot was always saying
that psychiatry as a specialty should be eliminated and replaced by
some new neuro* specialtiy.
> Unfortunately, I didn't learn until much later how dangerous that mistake
> was.
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| Squiggles 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
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Contrarian wrote:
....
>
> one person who until recently posted here a lot was always saying
> that psychiatry as a specialty should be eliminated and replaced by
> some new neuro* specialtiy.
>
>
That would be EricLostBoy ( curious sig - not sure of its
associations )
I'm not so sure about replacing psychiatry with neurology, and
I'm not so sure that neurology isn't actually a branch of psychiatry
at the present time. Do its adherents believe that the overvation
of the state of neurons will lead them to a more accurate diagnosis
of mental illness than the behaviour of the person? Even with
the understanding of neuronal abberations, will not the behavioural
and hence psychiatric observation be necessary to confirm depression
or other mental illnesses?
It sounds like a plot to get rid of psychiatry to me in a very
sophistical manner :-)
Squiggles
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| Lucida 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
| Actually, this is a very simple statistical effect. When mental health
treatment systems are developed, there is a corresponding improvement
in reporting. This looks like an increase in whatever is being
reported, but it is not. It is simply the fact that instead of suicides
beiing brushed off or swept under the rug, they are actually reported
and acknowledged. Of course, people who oppose helping depressed and
mentally ill people get help will go out of their way to say that this
proves treatment makes people worse, but it is usually just to justify
their own agenda.
Similar increases in reporting of child abuse, domestic violence and
rape have been known to occur when systems are put in place for these
things to actually be reported and tracked.
One wonders why people try so hard to deny the availability of
treatment to people, and will use statistical distortions to try to
scare people.
They are the one victimizing the mentally ill, althgough their own
delusions do not allow them to acknowledge it. Very sad.
Lucida
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| Squiggles 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
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Lucida wrote:
> Actually, this is a very simple statistical effect. When mental health
> treatment systems are developed, there is a corresponding improvement
> in reporting. This looks like an increase in whatever is being
> reported, but it is not. It is simply the fact that instead of suicides
> beiing brushed off or swept under the rug, they are actually reported
> and acknowledged. Of course, people who oppose helping depressed and
> mentally ill people get help will go out of their way to say that this
> proves treatment makes people worse, but it is usually just to justify
> their own agenda.
> Similar increases in reporting of child abuse, domestic violence and
> rape have been known to occur when systems are put in place for these
> things to actually be reported and tracked.
> One wonders why people try so hard to deny the availability of
> treatment to people, and will use statistical distortions to try to
> scare people.
> They are the one victimizing the mentally ill, althgough their own
> delusions do not allow them to acknowledge it. Very sad.
>
>
> Lucida
>
Sorry, Lucida, this is over my head. Perhaps it is related to
a previous thread; what "systems" are you referring to?
Squiggles
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| Lucida 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
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Squiggles wrote:
> Lucida wrote:
health[vbcol=seagreen]
improvement[vbcol=seagreen]
suicides[vbcol=seagreen]
reported[vbcol=seagreen]
and[vbcol=seagreen]
this[vbcol=seagreen]
justify[vbcol=seagreen]
and[vbcol=seagreen]
these[vbcol=seagreen]
> Sorry, Lucida, this is over my head. Perhaps it is related to
> a previous thread; what "systems" are you referring to?
>
> Squiggles
The title of this thread attempts to imply that getting treatment for
mental illness causes an increase in the rate of suicide. My assertion
is that it causes an increase in the rate of *reporting* of suicide- a
far different thing. There are people here who feel that mental illness
does not actually exist, and for them to maintain that delusion, they
need to try to "prove" that treating mental illness is a bad thing.
That is what this thread is about. Pretending that treatment causes
suicide, which it is highly unlikely that it does. It is far more
likely that by acknowledging that mental illnessas and suicide exist,
there are more suicides reported, as deaths which used to be labeled
with more vague terms are actually classified correctly.
An example- if an earlier Census did not have the option for people to
report as multi-racial resulted in a very low figure of multi-racial
people and a newer Census added the category and a far greater number
were reported as multi-racial, does that mean that conducting a Census
causes an increase in multi-racial people? No, that is ludicorus, as
are the claims of people here who deny their illness to the extent that
they need to deny treatment to everyone.
Lucida
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| Squiggles 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
|
Oh I see. I am sorry that I have been careless in reading
the follow-ups; yeah, definitely, if you don't look it
won't be there (depression), but if you do extensive looking
more cases both successfully and unsuccessfully treated are
likely to show up.
People walk around in life untreated and do all sorts of
crazy things, and sometimes one says, well that is just his
character, when that character trait could actually have
been curtailed.
Squiggles
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| Larry Hoover 2005-01-31, 11:39 am |
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"Lucida" <spambegone@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1107096331.423662.117410@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Actually, this is a very simple statistical effect. When mental health
> treatment systems are developed, there is a corresponding improvement
> in reporting. This looks like an increase in whatever is being
> reported, but it is not. It is simply the fact that instead of suicides
> beiing brushed off or swept under the rug, they are actually reported
> and acknowledged. Of course, people who oppose helping depressed and
> mentally ill people get help will go out of their way to say that this
> proves treatment makes people worse, but it is usually just to justify
> their own agenda.
I'm sorry to jump in here, but I have a couple of people in this thread blocked, and
I did not see the original posting.
As always, it is essential to refer to the primary reference, the original published
study. It is available in full-text at:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/li...4.01484.x/full/
If you took the trouble to read this piece, you'd see that suicide rates are
falling, and falling dramatically (see Table 4), across every measured group
reported. What stands out is that the invocation of mental health policies seems to
precede higher reported rates of suicide. The author's themselves have this to say
about the apparent increase: "It would be naïve to accept the above interpretation
without question. Even if it is true that the adoption of mental health initiatives
(other than substance abuse policies) is directly associated with an increase in
suicide rates, there may be acceptable reasons for this. For example, it may
demonstrate that policies and legislation have been introduced in areas of
increasing need, where suicide rates were on the rise. Alternatively, it may
indicate a case-finding effect, whereby a greater awareness of mental health issues
generated by the given initiative led to a heightened tendency to label deaths as
suicides."
As overall suicide rates are falling, it is absurd to conclude that anything is
causing their increase.
Lar
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