Depression Medications - Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post

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Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-09, 10:08 pm

I happened to be scanning psychobabble as I do once in a while and came across
a decent post, started by of all people, squiggles. Seems like she has read
some Dr. E. Fuller Torrey and finally seen the light. Good for her...I always
assumed she was an airhead, guess I was wrong.

Anyway, Larry Hoover comes in late in the discussion and posts this long,
rambling post about nutrition being more important than neurology and brain
science in the treatment of mental illness. He also makes the absolutely
ascinine statement that "psychiatry is IMHO, applied Neurology." WTF is
"applied Neurology?" Thats the most stupid XXXXing thing Ive ever read.
Neurology is as different from psychiatry as it could be. Psychiatry has more
in common with psychology than it does with Neurologists. A lot of Neurologists
sneer at psychiatry and dont want to have anything to do with it because of the
pathetic quality of the science and research in it.

Neurologists on the other hand, are REAL brain doctors and actually know
something about the central nervous system. Psychiatrists dont know jackshit,
with a few exceptions here and there.

Anyway, you can read his dumb post and laugh...this guy needs some zyprexa.
Nutrition isnt going to solve severe mental illness...thats a big XXXXing joke.
Hahaha.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social...sgs/413998.html

Eric

Larry Hoover

2004-11-10, 2:12 am

"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041109220846.07763.00000511@mb-m01.aol.com...

> Anyway, Larry Hoover comes in late in the discussion and posts this long,
> rambling post about nutrition being more important than neurology and brain
> science in the treatment of mental illness.

> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social...sgs/413998.html

Eric, I was actually thinking of posting it here, just to see what you thought of
it. ;-)

Here it is, for anyone interested. If you follow that link, you'll go to the page
with the following post on it, but also, below that, are links to the individual
posts that are also in the thread. You can follow the conversation quite easily that
way, and see what post is being answered, because every post has embedded in it a
hot link to the one being replied to. That helps clear up who's talking to who, a
little bit. Anyway.....Babble is a durn sight nicer than it is here, not least
because people like Eric are banned from posting there.

Lar

"Coming late to this thread, after some musing and some procrastination....

Psychiatry is, IMHO, applied neurology. The limitations of psychiatry are those of
neurology, plus the inherent uncertainty of classifying disease/disorder/syndrome
based solely on behaviour.

We know so little about the workings of the brain that we cannot even say why the
meds we currently use have the effects that they do (or lack of effects, as the case
may be). We speak of "serotonin reuptake inhibition" as if it is a rebalancer of
brain chemistry. But, if it is as we say, how is it that the antidepressant effect
takes weeks to emerge? If you take LSD, or peyote, you get an immediate effect
mediated by serotonin. That is not at all what we are dealing with in respect of
antidepressants. Yet we speak as if we know what is going on. Hardly.

I see no great divide between neurology and psychiatry. They are partners and
interactors. They each feed from the discoveries of the other. They grow, together.
Any distinction between the two realms is arbitrary, just as is mental diagnosis.

Mother Nature doesn't draw lines between groups. That's totally human nature at
work. The DSM, the ICD, they are our best but wholly imperfect systems of
categorization. But is it not so that the intellectual reserve we maintain when we
consider these guides is simply evidence of their arbitrary and simplistic nature?
Let's not forget that a major impetus for the development of the DSM was to
standardize insurance billing for mental health issues. The accountants just
wouldn't accept "he's a little neurotic and a bit of an oddball" as a diagnosis, and
write the cheque. They wanted a little bit more detail than that.

One of the primary failings of the DSM/ICD is that it is an observational system
of classification. Are we to assume that each practitioner will see an identical
example of "major depression, recurrent" or "narcissistic personality disorder" when
patients present themselves? Of course not. So, they had to make the definitions a
little fuzzier, or groups (a.k.a. diagnoses) would not likely coalesce from the
hodge-podge of behaviour at all. "5 of this list of 9 symptoms, but not any of those
down at the end (the differentials)." That's hardly scientific. And, who is to say
that a particular collection of behaviours has an identical cause in two different
subjects? That's where it really falls apart.

Depression of mood is a symptom, yet it is treated in current medical practise as
if it is a clear-cut disease. As a symptom, though, it is heterogenous (having many
possible causes). Arthralgia (often mis-spoken of as arthritis), or joint pain, is a
symptom of at least 180 different and distinct disorders. Some of the treatments
work for more than one of those disorders. Others might even work for most of the
real causes of the joint pain, but no treatment works for them all. What if the poor
response to psychiatric meds is nothing more than a reflection of the heterogeneity
of the symptoms we've mistaken for diseases? You can't treat someone with septic
arthritis by giving them tylenol. You need a better and more specific diagnosis to
treat properly.

The more I understand, the less I know. The brain is still a "black box". Stuff
goes in, and behaviour comes out. Inside, it is MagickT. Psych-iatry, "mind
doctoring". It may not be great, but it's the best we've got. And we've come a long
way from insulin shock, trans-orbital lobotomies, and "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
Nest".

If anyone reading this has spent any time on the Alternative board, you know of my
philosophy that a healthy mind cannot exist in a sick or poorly nourished body.
Trying to prod or force healthier brain activity with medication may be a mug's
game, absent consideration for the biological basis of the energy of mind itself.
Perhaps psychiatry should be replaced by nutritional science, not neurology, after
all. Maybe no one would be mentally ill if we could figure out what they
specifically needed to consume to be well. Okay, 'same pipe dream, different pills',
but best start there, methinks, and medicate/treat after you've gotten the machinery
tuned up.

Lar"

Larry Hoover

2004-11-10, 7:10 am

"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041109220846.07763.00000511@mb-m01.aol.com...

>I happened to be scanning psychobabble as I do once in a while

But Eric, surely you jest. You've soundly denounced Babble on a number of occasions.
Or is that because you're blocked for 64 weeks?

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Larry Hoover" larryhoover@sympatico.ca
>Date: 11/10/2004 7:09 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Bxnkd.24269$km5.1155917@news20.bellglobal.com>
>
>
>"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20041109220846.07763.00000511@mb-m01.aol.com...
>
>
>But Eric, surely you jest. You've soundly denounced Babble on a number of
>occasions.
>Or is that because you're blocked for 64 weeks?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I am banned from there, but then again so are a whole bunch of other people. I
know a Medical Doctor who is banned from psychobabble! Just because Im banned
and dont particularly care for Dr. Bob and his moderating style doesnt mean I
dont go there occasionally and scan medication posts.

I rarely bother to read your posts though....most of the time when I see your
name I skip over it and move on. Because I dont consider your opinion on meds
and mental illness to be worth much.

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041110163440.22033.00000432@mb-m06.aol.com...
>
> I am banned from there, but then again so are a whole bunch of other
people. I
> know a Medical Doctor who is banned from psychobabble! Just because Im
banned
> and dont particularly care for Dr. Bob and his moderating style doesnt
mean I
> dont go there occasionally and scan medication posts.
>
> I rarely bother to read your posts though....most of the time when I see
your
> name I skip over it and move on. Because I dont consider your opinion on
meds
> and mental illness to be worth much.
>
> Eric
>
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Then why are you writing this?
Does your starting you own group, yet again, mean that you will no longer be
here, and will only dispense the 'truth' at your Yahoo group?

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net
>Date: 11/10/2004 6:13 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <8MidnZ1qwuhBPQ_cRVn-rA@comcast.com>
>
>
>"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20041110163440.22033.00000432@mb-m06.aol.com...
>people. I
>banned
>mean I
>your
>meds
>
>Then why are you writing this?
>Does your starting you own group, yet again, mean that you will no longer be
>here, and will only dispense the 'truth' at your Yahoo group?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes, the truth will be told there and there are lots of ECT links on that site
BTW. You should check it out and learn something.

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041110215731.08096.00000500@mb-m07.aol.com...
of[vbcol=seagreen]
see[vbcol=seagreen]
on[vbcol=seagreen]
be[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yes, the truth will be told there and there are lots of ECT links on that
site
> BTW. You should check it out and learn something.
>

yes, eric, I am sure the 'truth' will be told at your yahoo site, trouble is
the 'truth' is very different then the truth.

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net
>Date: 11/11/2004 10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <_YSdne1b6JQ2Hg7cRVn-rw@comcast.com>
>
>
>"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20041110215731.08096.00000500@mb-m07.aol.com...
>of
>see
>on
>be
>site
>
>
>yes, eric, I am sure the 'truth' will be told at your yahoo site, trouble is
>the 'truth' is very different then the truth.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

your version of the truth is nothing but a bunch of XXXXing lies. If I listened
to your version of the "truth" I would have been dead years ago. Youre an
idiot.

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041111165108.08355.00000472@mb-m04.aol.com...
number[vbcol=seagreen]
Im[vbcol=seagreen]
doesnt[vbcol=seagreen]
opinion[vbcol=seagreen]
longer[vbcol=seagreen]
that[vbcol=seagreen]
is[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> your version of the truth is nothing but a bunch of XXXXing lies. If I
listened
> to your version of the "truth" I would have been dead years ago. Youre an
> idiot.
>
> Eric
>
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Why have I recovered from depression and you are still mired in it?

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net
>Date: 11/11/2004 8:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <7MKdnRLvuqGkjgncRVn-iw@comcast.com>
>
>
>"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20041111165108.08355.00000472@mb-m04.aol.com...
>number
>Im
>doesnt
>opinion
>longer
>that
>is
>listened
>
>Why have I recovered from depression and you are still mired in it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Youve got a different form of depression than I do steve. From the things youve
described, you suffer more from a bipolar disorder than a major depression. I
also have my doubts whether youve really "recovered" as much as you claim you
have.

A mentally healthy person would not do what you do and post on here only when I
post...youre sick steve. And not mentally healthy.

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041111220248.08215.00000523@mb-m05.aol.com...
other[vbcol=seagreen]
because[vbcol=seagreen]
when I[vbcol=seagreen]
trouble[vbcol=seagreen]
an[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Youve got a different form of depression than I do steve. From the things
youve
> described, you suffer more from a bipolar disorder than a major
depression. I
> also have my doubts whether youve really "recovered" as much as you claim
you
> have.
>
> A mentally healthy person would not do what you do and post on here only
when I
> post...youre sick steve. And not mentally healthy.
>
> Eric

I post under other occasions, Eric. The fact is it's you who are sick.
Calling everyone who disagrees with you sick is it's self a sign of denial.

I think you have a personality disorder, two in fact, schizoid and
narcissistic. I think you are will never recover until you accept your
problems and go to therapy. Drugs do not address personality disorders,
Eric. You are unable to argue with anyone without attacking them, clearly
you have no points to make, only a desire to dominate with no merit, save
your loud mouth.

You are simply a bully, one who has suffered a great loss, the loss of fear
in your audience. We are all on to you, Eric.

I wish you a long and fruitful career as the founder and creator of a tiny,
private yahoo group.

It's the only roost you will rule.

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net
>Date: 11/11/2004 11:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <de2dncATO-LEpgncRVn-hw@comcast.com>

>I post under other occasions, Eric. The fact is it's you who are sick.
>Calling everyone who disagrees with you sick is it's self a sign of denial.

When have I ever denied I am not mentally ill? I have repeated over and over
again that Im severely mentally ill and thats why Im here.

You on the other hand, dont even like to admit you have any mental illness
problems. I just dislike people like yourself coming onto a MEDICATIONS
DISCUSSION NEWSGROUP and bashing people like myself who rely on medications and
believe in the biological basis of severe mental illness.

>
>I think you have a personality disorder, two in fact, schizoid and
>narcissistic. I think you are will never recover until you accept your
>problems and go to therapy. Drugs do not address personality disorders,
>Eric. You are unable to argue with anyone without attacking them, clearly
>you have no points to make, only a desire to dominate with no merit, save
>your loud mouth.

First of all, Ive got problems way more severe than "schizoid" and "narcissist"
personality disorders. Way, way way more severe than that. Oh if you only knew.

Second of all, you are in no position to diagnose me, much less over the
Internet. You are not a psychiatrist, a psychologist, not even a counselor or
social worker. You are a mere layperson with nothing but a an undergraduate
minor psychology. My sister has more psychology credits than you do. And I
wouldnt trust her to diagnose a tweety bird. I also personally know several
people who have undergraduate psychology degrees (not minors in psych) and not
one of them I would use for anything clinical or real world.

Your obvious thinking that you can diagnose people is delusional and
grandiose...you need help.

Its been obvious since day one of your being here that you intensely do not
like me because of my pro-ECT views and my pro-biological psychiatry views
which you so protest.

I have never been diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder, although I have
been diagnosed with "cluster B" personality traits by two psychiatrists...both
psychiatrists I did not get along with.

If you would like to know the real truth about me, the reason Im unable to get
out of depression has been that I have some dystonia problems (formally
diagnosed recently) and I have had many many problems tolerating medications,
particularly polypharmacy. This began during and immediately after taking
risperdal years and years ago...I suffered a severe case of EPS then which went
undiagnosed by my psychiatrist. And then I suffered a second case of it that
"rebounded" after I went off some Seroquel three years ago.

If I didnt have the dystonia problems, I would be able to tolerate polypharmacy
like most others are able to do and I would be able to get out of this and move
on.

You probably do not understand what Im talking about, but thats the reason Im
refractorily depressed. Not because of "personality disorders."

>
>You are simply a bully, one who has suffered a great loss, the loss of fear
>in your audience. We are all on to you, Eric.
>
>I wish you a long and fruitful career as the founder and creator of a tiny,
>private yahoo group.

You are taking the yahoo group too serious steve.
>
>It's the only roost you will rule.

Youre way too focused on my psychology steve...thats a sign of someone who is
mentally unbalanced. Youre obsession with me on this NG is clear and well
documented....others have said it as well on here.

Youre sick and you need help and you need to admit you have mental problems.

Eric

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Pablo

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7MKdnRLvuqGkjgncRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>
> "LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20041111165108.08355.00000472@mb-m04.aol.com...
> number
> Im
> doesnt
> opinion
> longer
> that
> is
> listened
>
> Why have I recovered from depression and you are still mired in it?

Steve, why have you traded in your depression for an obsession with Eric?

As for your anti-ECT stance, my brother has had a better quality of life
after his ECT treatments. I am glad the option was available to him.

Pablo

Pablo

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:de2dncATO-LEpgncRVn-hw@comcast.com...
>
> "LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20041111220248.08215.00000523@mb-m05.aol.com...
> other
> because
> when I
> trouble
> an
> youve
> depression. I
> you
> when I
>
> I post under other occasions, Eric. The fact is it's you who are sick.
> Calling everyone who disagrees with you sick is it's self a sign of
> denial.
>
> I think you have a personality disorder, two in fact, schizoid and
> narcissistic. I think you are will never recover until you accept your
> problems and go to therapy. Drugs do not address personality disorders,
> Eric. You are unable to argue with anyone without attacking them, clearly
> you have no points to make, only a desire to dominate with no merit, save
> your loud mouth.

Eric and I have debated for years, and we have major disagreements about
some issues. Despite this, he and I have never had harsh words for each
other.

> You are simply a bully, one who has suffered a great loss, the loss of
> fear
> in your audience. We are all on to you, Eric.

We? You don't speak for me. I fully support Eric's right to be here. If
his posts upset you, don't read them. It's a simple as that. As for him
being a bully, he is also bullied. You seem to follow him around like a dog
in heat.

> I wish you a long and fruitful career as the founder and creator of a
> tiny,
> private yahoo group.

Will you be joining it and harassing him there, too?

> It's the only roost you will rule.

IMO, Eric doesn't attempt to "rule" this newsgroup. He has a strong
personality and equally strong opinions. He is not perfect, but none of us
is.

Pablo

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Pablo" nono@yes.com
>Date: 11/13/2004 6:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <V2mld.14856$Gm6.6142@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

>IMO, Eric doesn't attempt to "rule" this newsgroup. He has a strong
>personality and equally strong opinions. He is not perfect, but none of us
>is.
>

Thank you! Thats describes me exactly on here.

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Pablo" nono@yes.com
>Date: 11/13/2004 5:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <FJlld.14852$Gm6.8170@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
>

> Why have I recovered from depression and you are still mired in it?
>
>Steve, why have you traded in your depression for an obsession with Eric?

Thats what Ive asked him repeatedly. I dont think he realizes he has an
obsession. I believe his insight is poor.

>
>As for your anti-ECT stance, my brother has had a better quality of life
>after his ECT treatments. I am glad the option was available to him.

Yeah, its a good option to have on the table. The problem has become ECT is so
hard to get. Very few places do it anymore, then you have to match up your
particular kind of insurance with the Edoc's accepted insurance. By the time
youve done all that, there might only be one place you can have ECT done at and
it might be with an Edoc or hospital you dont particularly care to use.

Thank the anti-ECT activists like steve here for all this sort of thing.
Getting ECT removed from VA centers, state mental hospitals where the poor dont
have access to it anymore, etc. No wonder remission is so low with severe mood
disorders these days. They dont use ECT anymore hardly like they used to in the
old days.

Eric

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"Pablo" <nono@yes.com> wrote in message
news:FJlld.14852$Gm6.8170@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:7MKdnRLvuqGkjgncRVn-iw@comcast.com...
because[vbcol=seagreen]
when[vbcol=seagreen]
an[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Steve, why have you traded in your depression for an obsession with Eric?

It's more a desire to provide a counter argument to the incorrect, and
potentally harmeful propaganda he spouts.

>
> As for your anti-ECT stance, my brother has had a better quality of life
> after his ECT treatments. I am glad the option was available to him.

I have no involvement in a anti ECT site,. I do work with a site that aims
to provide accurate and unbiassed information about ECT, and that allows
folks who have had ECT a place to discuss their experences. www.ect.org is
a place where the entire study is printed, not just the press release.

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041113075238.08186.00000602@mb-m05.aol.com...
>
us[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Thank you! Thats describes me exactly on here.

Telling people to leave, telling people they must have their posts approved
by you, and telling people that their type of depression seem to qualify you
as attempting to rule the newsgroup, Eric.

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net
>Date: 11/13/2004 9:59 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <A96dnd5oH995vAvcRVn-3Q@comcast.com>

>
>
>It's more a desire to provide a counter argument to the incorrect, and
>potentally harmeful propaganda he spouts.

BULLSHIT!!! Youre obsessed with me dude. Others have said it as well.

>
>
>
>I have no involvement in a anti ECT site,. I do work with a site that aims
>to provide accurate and unbiassed information about ECT, and that allows
>folks who have had ECT a place to discuss their experences. www.ect.org is
>a place where the entire study is printed, not just the press release.
>
BULLSHIT again! You are one of the moderators at ect.org and that makes you
involved. You also post there, as a moderator. You are so full of shit.

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net
>Date: 11/13/2004 10:01 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <PbqdnZ65TcvKvwvcRVn-jA@comcast.com>
>
>
>"LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20041113075238.08186.00000602@mb-m05.aol.com...
>us
>
>Telling people to leave, telling people they must have their posts approved
>by you, and telling people that their type of depression seem to qualify you
>as attempting to rule the newsgroup, Eric.

People who come here and tell people that their antidepressants will do
terrible, bad things to them do not need to be posting here. Likewise,
individuals like yourself who tell ASDM posters who have severe, refractory
depression and are severely disabled do not need to be told that ECT is not an
option for them.

Perhaps Treatment Advocacy Center could help you out steve.

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

> People who come here and tell people that their antidepressants will do
> terrible, bad things to them do not need to be posting here.

But people who post the actual potential dangers do have a place here.

Likewise,
> individuals like yourself who tell ASDM posters who have severe,
refractory
> depression and are severely disabled do not need to be told that ECT is
not an
> option for them.

I have never told people ECT is not an option, I have only posted the
dangers of ECT, dangers that are covered up by the psychiatric industry,
dangers that are explained at www.ect.org.

I feel ECT is a last ditch option.

>
> Perhaps Treatment Advocacy Center could help you out steve.

How do you feel treatment advocacy center can help me, Eric?

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net
>Date: 11/13/2004 1:34 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <B5KdnVLpqowjzwvcRVn-iQ@comcast.com>
>
>
>But people who post the actual potential dangers do have a place here.
>
> Likewise,
>refractory
>not an
>
>I have never told people ECT is not an option, I have only posted the
>dangers of ECT, dangers that are covered up by the psychiatric industry,
>dangers that are explained at www.ect.org.

The dangers arent covered up by the XXXXing ECT industry, XXXXXXX. I had an ECT
consult and he told me more about ECT in one hour than I ever learned about it
online. Or worse, from your twisted website.

>
>I feel ECT is a last ditch option.

You "feel?" Do you think with your feelings steve? Thats pretty XXXXing smart.
The smartest people in the world "think" with their feelings. Letting emotion,
rather than detached reason and hard analytical thinking, do their thinking for
them.

Thats you...Mr. Emotional.

>
>
>How do you feel treatment advocacy center can help me, Eric?

From that TAC website, it looked as if TAC is getting ready to move in on
Pennsylvania steve. They've already hit NY, California, NC and a few other
states hard. Next time you visit that doctor and he sees "bipolar disorder"
unmedicated in your jacket, he may be inclined to refer you to the TAC
Pennsylvania people.

In short, your days of freedom may be coming to a close with the advent of
forced medications coming back. Kiss the ACLU goodbye, XXXXXXX.

Eric

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Pablo

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:A96dnd5oH995vAvcRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
>
> "Pablo" <nono@yes.com> wrote in message
> news:FJlld.14852$Gm6.8170@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

<snip>

>
>
> It's more a desire to provide a counter argument to the incorrect, and
> potentally harmeful propaganda he spouts.

With all due respect, it seems as if you have gone beyond that desire. You
tend to quibble about everything Eric says. Even when he is not posting
about med/ECT/etc. info, you seem to want to belittle him. I can't help but
think you get some sort of kick from this (of course, I could be wrong). I
think it's true that some people don't like Eric's posting style, and I
think he knows this. If your only desire is to counter his opinions, then I
would think the prudent thing to do would be to stick to the issues. Poking
at him at every turn says a bit more about you than it does about him.

I would expect a Mensan to have more sense. ;-)

>
>
> I have no involvement in a anti ECT site,. I do work with a site that aims
> to provide accurate and unbiassed information about ECT, and that allows
> folks who have had ECT a place to discuss their experences. www.ect.org
> is
> a place where the entire study is printed, not just the press release.

I haven't looked at the site, but you seem to come down awfully hard in this
newsgroup when it comes to ECT. Given your statements above, should I
assume that you are not advocating a ban on this form of treatment?

Pablo

Pablo

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:PbqdnZ65TcvKvwvcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>
> "LostBoyinNC" <deepsand562@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20041113075238.08186.00000602@mb-m05.aol.com...
> us
>
> Telling people to leave, telling people they must have their posts
> approved
> by you, and telling people that their type of depression seem to qualify
> you
> as attempting to rule the newsgroup, Eric.

"...and telling people that their type of depression..." I guess even
Mensans make mistakes. I think you left a word or two out

Yes, he tells people to leave. I don't like it when he does this, either,
but that's part of my point above.

His saying that posts need to be approved by him was said in jest.

You two seem to be quite good at pressing each other's buttons.

Pablo

Pablo

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B5KdnVLpqowjzwvcRVn-iQ@comcast.com...

<snip>

> I feel ECT is a last ditch option.

This is not a feeling. ;-)

It's a belief.

Pablo

Steve n Holly

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

"Pablo" <nono@yes.com> wrote in message
news:7k%ld.11503$_J2.7474@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:A96dnd5oH995vAvcRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
>
> <snip>
>
Eric?[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> With all due respect, it seems as if you have gone beyond that desire.
You
> tend to quibble about everything Eric says. Even when he is not posting
> about med/ECT/etc. info, you seem to want to belittle him. I can't help
but
> think you get some sort of kick from this (of course, I could be wrong).
I
> think it's true that some people don't like Eric's posting style, and I
> think he knows this. If your only desire is to counter his opinions, then
I
> would think the prudent thing to do would be to stick to the issues.
Poking
> at him at every turn says a bit more about you than it does about him.
>
> I would expect a Mensan to have more sense. ;-)
>
life[vbcol=seagreen]
aims[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I haven't looked at the site, but you seem to come down awfully hard in
this
> newsgroup when it comes to ECT. Given your statements above, should I
> assume that you are not advocating a ban on this form of treatment?
>
> Pablo
>
>

ECT is a very serious treatment with very serious consequences. I advocate
extreme caution, but I have also consistently said it's ok as a last ditch
treatment.
The main problems with ECT are that it's side effect profile is
unpredictable, from your brothers happy outcome to significantly less
pleasing results, and it is quite ineffective, over the long term in many
people, unless it is given on a consistent basis.

In addition many ECT practitioners gloss over or do not even mention the
real risks of ECT. This can be from at least 2 obvious causes--first a
desire not to inform the patient and make some easy money, and second the
fact that a person who suffers harm is somewhat less likely to revisit the
locus of that harm.

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-16, 4:45 pm

>Subject: Re: Larry Hoover's stupid psychobabble post
>From: "Pablo" nono@yes.com
>Date: 11/15/2004 5:28 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Ex%ld.11506$_J2.1262@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
>
>"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:B5KdnVLpqowjzwvcRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>
><snip>
>
>
>This is not a feeling. ;-)
>
>It's a belief.
>
>Pablo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

steve thinks with his feelings, youd expect more from a mensa member, huh?

Eric

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yNotPsychiatry/

Steve n Holly

2004-11-20, 11:33 am

Pablo

2004-11-20, 11:33 am

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-20, 11:33 am

Steve n Holly

2004-11-20, 11:33 am

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-20, 11:34 am

Steve n Holly

2004-11-21, 11:24 am

LostBoyinNC

2004-11-21, 11:24 am