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Microchimerisms: Researchers zero in on cause of neuroendocrine symptoms
|
|
|
| In case readers aren't aware of it, some researchers have theorized that some
peoples symptoms of "ADHD" were actually symptoms of a stress diathesis that
was a funcition of thyroid problem; therefore, symptoms of ADHD might be a
neuro-endocrine problem.
I believe I post a while back how Japanese researchers made the startling
discovery of male fetal microchimerisms in the majority of thyroid glands of
female (mothers) with hashimoto's they biopsied after they died.
Western researchers have replicated the Japanese study--the last two years and
found the same thing. .
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 89, No. 11 5810-5814
Copyright © 2004 by The Endocrine Society
Thyroid Fetal Male Microchimerisms in Mothers with Thyroid Disorders: Presence
of Y-Chromosomal Immunofluorescence in Thyroid-Infiltrating Lymphocytes Is More
Prevalent in Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and Graves’ Disease Than in Follicular
Adenomas
Christoph Renné, Elizabeth Ramos Lopez, Susanne A. Steimle-Grauer, Piotr
Ziolkowski, Michael A. Pani, Christina Luther, Katharina Holzer, Albrecht
Encke, Robert A. Wahl, Wolf O. Bechstein, Klaus H. Usadel, Martin-Leo Hansmann
and Klaus Badenhoop
Institute of Pathology (C.R., S.A.S.-G., M.-L.H.), Department of Internal
Medicine I, Division of Endocrinology (E.R.L., M.A.P., K.H.U., K.B.),
Department of Surgery (C.L., K.H., A.E., W.O.B.), university Hospital
Frankfurt, D-60596 Frankfurt am Main, Germany; Department of Surgery,
Bürgerhospital (R.A.W.), D-60596 Frankfurt am Main, Germany; and Department of
Pathology, Wroclaw Medical university (P.Z.), 50-368 Wroclaw, Poland
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. K. Badenhoop,
Department of Internal Medicine I, Division of Endocrinology, University
Hospital Frankfurt, Theodor-Stern-Kai 7, D-60596 Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
E-mail: badenhoop@em.uni-frankfurt.de.
The presence of fetal cells in a maternal compartment is defined as
fetal-maternal microchimerism, which has been detected in thyroids of mothers
suffering from autoimmunity. We analyzed the immunohistology of
paraffin-embedded thyroid specimen taken at surgery from 49 women with
Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (n = 25), Graves’ disease (n = 15), or nodular or
diffuse follicular adenomas (n = 9), whose childbirth history was positive for
sons. By fluorescence in situ hybridization we screened for X-chromosome- and
Y-chromosome-specific staining and compared the finding with human leukocyte
antigen (HLA) DQ types of the mothers and, where available, their offspring. In
23 thyroids we found Y-chromosome-specific staining, which was more frequent in
thyroid autoimmune disease (60% Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and 40% Graves’
disease) than in follicular adenomas (22.2%). There was no significant
difference for HLA DQ alleles among women whose thyroids showed Y-chromosome
staining and those without. However, a subgroup of all investigated
microchimerism-positive mother-child pairs and women with Hashimoto’s
thyroiditis and Graves’ disease more often had the susceptibility alleles HLA
DQA1*0501-DQB1*0201 or DQB1*0301. In conclusion, fetal microchimerism is
observed in thyroids of mothers with sons, and this is found more frequently in
thyroid autoimmune diseases.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/co...ract/89/11/5810
******************************************
But, only 60% of women with Hashimoto's are showing the male fetal
microchimerisas. However, researchers have been so bouyed by the discovery
of microchimerism as causitive in auto-immune problems, that the search for
other types microchimerisms has become the frontline of research into
autoimmune diseases.----cutting edge research.
http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content...act/164/11/5545
1: JAMA. 2004 Mar 3;291(9):1127-31. Related Articles, Links
Microchimerism: an investigative frontier in autoimmunity and transplantation.
Adams KM, Nelson JL.
Program in Human Immunogenetics, Clinical Research Division, Fred Hutchinson
Cancer Research Center, Seattle, WA 98109-1024, USA.
Recent studies indicate cells transfer between fetus and mother during
pregnancy and can persist in both decades later. The presence within one
individual of a small population of cells from another genetically distinct
individual is referred to as microchimerism. Naturally acquired microchimerism
has recently been investigated in autoimmune diseases, including scleroderma,
thyroiditis, primary biliary cirrhosis, Sjogren syndrome, systemic lupus,
dermatomyositis, and neonatal lupus. Iatrogenic chimerism has been investigated
in transplantation and following blood transfusion. Considering findings of
naturally acquired microchimerism along with iatrogenic microchimerism suggests
microchimerism can have detrimental and/or beneficial effects in both settings.
Recent identification of tissue-specific microchimerism either from naturally
acquired or iatrogenic microchimerism (eg, cardiac myocytes) raises the
possibility that microchimerism can be a target of autoimmunity or
alternatively contribute to tissue repair. Advances in this new frontier of
research with varied and numerous implications for human health are summarized.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial
PMID: 14996783 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
****************************************************************************
Having had to live with waxing and waning Hashimoto's for 25 years, it's so
exciting that researchers are zeroing in on the cause of this perplexing
disorder whose symptoms present as "neuroendocrine".
Naturally, I like the talk about "transplantion" which I hope means removing
all the "renegade" microchimerism from a person with hashimoto's or whatever.
The symptoms of 25% of people with TS are believed to be a function of a stress
diathesis, too...-so maybe symptoms of TS is a neuroendicrine problem in some
people.
| |
| Sandy L 2005-01-18, 10:09 pm |
| "Linda" <adinllinda@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20050118190034.10817.00000090@mb-m29.aol.com...
> In case readers aren't aware of it, some researchers have theorized that
> some
> peoples symptoms of "ADHD" were actually symptoms of a stress diathesis
> that
> was a funcition of thyroid problem; therefore, symptoms of ADHD might be
> a
> neuro-endocrine problem.
>
> I believe I post a while back how Japanese researchers made the startling
> discovery of male fetal microchimerisms in the majority of thyroid glands
> of
> female (mothers) with hashimoto's they biopsied after they died.
>
> Western researchers have replicated the Japanese study--the last two
> years and
> found the same thing. .
>
>
> The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 89, No. 11
> 5810-5814
> Copyright © 2004 by The Endocrine Society
>
>
> Thyroid Fetal Male Microchimerisms in Mothers with Thyroid Disorders:
> Presence
> of Y-Chromosomal Immunofluorescence in Thyroid-Infiltrating Lymphocytes Is
> More
> Prevalent in Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and Graves' Disease Than in
> Follicular
> Adenomas
> Christoph Renné, Elizabeth Ramos Lopez, Susanne A. Steimle-Grauer, Piotr
> Ziolkowski, Michael A. Pani, Christina Luther, Katharina Holzer, Albrecht
> Encke, Robert A. Wahl, Wolf O. Bechstein, Klaus H. Usadel, Martin-Leo
> Hansmann
> and Klaus Badenhoop
>
> Institute of Pathology (C.R., S.A.S.-G., M.-L.H.), Department of Internal
> Medicine I, Division of Endocrinology (E.R.L., M.A.P., K.H.U., K.B.),
> Department of Surgery (C.L., K.H., A.E., W.O.B.), university Hospital
> Frankfurt, D-60596 Frankfurt am Main, Germany; Department of Surgery,
> Bürgerhospital (R.A.W.), D-60596 Frankfurt am Main, Germany; and
> Department of
> Pathology, Wroclaw Medical university (P.Z.), 50-368 Wroclaw, Poland
>
> Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. K. Badenhoop,
> Department of Internal Medicine I, Division of Endocrinology, University
> Hospital Frankfurt, Theodor-Stern-Kai 7, D-60596 Frankfurt am Main,
> Germany.
> E-mail: badenhoop@em.uni-frankfurt.de.
>
> The presence of fetal cells in a maternal compartment is defined as
> fetal-maternal microchimerism, which has been detected in thyroids of
> mothers
> suffering from autoimmunity. We analyzed the immunohistology of
> paraffin-embedded thyroid specimen taken at surgery from 49 women with
> Hashimoto's thyroiditis (n = 25), Graves' disease (n = 15), or nodular or
> diffuse follicular adenomas (n = 9), whose childbirth history was positive
> for
> sons. By fluorescence in situ hybridization we screened for X-chromosome-
> and
> Y-chromosome-specific staining and compared the finding with human
> leukocyte
> antigen (HLA) DQ types of the mothers and, where available, their
> offspring. In
> 23 thyroids we found Y-chromosome-specific staining, which was more
> frequent in
> thyroid autoimmune disease (60% Hashimoto's thyroiditis and 40% Graves'
> disease) than in follicular adenomas (22.2%). There was no significant
> difference for HLA DQ alleles among women whose thyroids showed
> Y-chromosome
> staining and those without. However, a subgroup of all investigated
> microchimerism-positive mother-child pairs and women with Hashimoto's
> thyroiditis and Graves' disease more often had the susceptibility alleles
> HLA
> DQA1*0501-DQB1*0201 or DQB1*0301. In conclusion, fetal microchimerism is
> observed in thyroids of mothers with sons, and this is found more
> frequently in
> thyroid autoimmune diseases.
>
> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/co...ract/89/11/5810
>
> ******************************************
>
> But, only 60% of women with Hashimoto's are showing the male fetal
> microchimerisas. However, researchers have been so bouyed by the
> discovery
> of microchimerism as causitive in auto-immune problems, that the search
> for
> other types microchimerisms has become the frontline of research into
> autoimmune diseases.----cutting edge research.
>
> http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content...act/164/11/5545
>
>
> 1: JAMA. 2004 Mar 3;291(9):1127-31. Related Articles, Links
>
>
> Microchimerism: an investigative frontier in autoimmunity and
> transplantation.
>
> Adams KM, Nelson JL.
>
> Program in Human Immunogenetics, Clinical Research Division, Fred
> Hutchinson
> Cancer Research Center, Seattle, WA 98109-1024, USA.
>
> Recent studies indicate cells transfer between fetus and mother during
> pregnancy and can persist in both decades later. The presence within one
> individual of a small population of cells from another genetically
> distinct
> individual is referred to as microchimerism. Naturally acquired
> microchimerism
> has recently been investigated in autoimmune diseases, including
> scleroderma,
> thyroiditis, primary biliary cirrhosis, Sjogren syndrome, systemic lupus,
> dermatomyositis, and neonatal lupus. Iatrogenic chimerism has been
> investigated
> in transplantation and following blood transfusion. Considering findings
> of
> naturally acquired microchimerism along with iatrogenic microchimerism
> suggests
> microchimerism can have detrimental and/or beneficial effects in both
> settings.
> Recent identification of tissue-specific microchimerism either from
> naturally
> acquired or iatrogenic microchimerism (eg, cardiac myocytes) raises the
> possibility that microchimerism can be a target of autoimmunity or
> alternatively contribute to tissue repair. Advances in this new frontier
> of
> research with varied and numerous implications for human health are
> summarized.
>
> Publication Types:
> Review
> Review, Tutorial
>
> PMID: 14996783 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>
> ****************************************************************************
>
> Having had to live with waxing and waning Hashimoto's for 25 years, it's
> so
> exciting that researchers are zeroing in on the cause of this perplexing
> disorder whose symptoms present as "neuroendocrine".
>
> Naturally, I like the talk about "transplantion" which I hope means
> removing
> all the "renegade" microchimerism from a person with hashimoto's or
> whatever.
>
> The symptoms of 25% of people with TS are believed to be a function of a
> stress
> diathesis, too...-so maybe symptoms of TS is a neuroendicrine problem in
> some
> people.
That, I thought, was a fascinating idea. It is interesting to see the
confirmation. Thanks.
| |
|
| Sandy L wrote:
> "Linda" <adinllinda@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20050118190034.10817.00000090@mb-m29.aol.com...
Disorders:[vbcol=seagreen]
Lymphocytes Is[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That, I thought, was a fascinating idea. It is interesting to see
the
> confirmation. Thanks.
Hashimoto's is a dx requires medical treatment "for life."
So, I have been under constant medical care for the last 25 years.
My moving three times means I been seen and treated by three different
sets of GP's, Endo's, Neuro-endo's, and neuro-psychiatrists, etc.
Therefore, when the usenet crackpots started their usenet doktoring--I
found it highly doubtful that three different treatment teams would all
be so incompetent they wouldn't see the things that the crackpot's
self-servingly hang on those who challenge their usenut doktoring.
Even though I KNOW abusive therapists react to being challeged by
hanging personality dx's (especially borderline), I still approached
an expert and he scoffed at the idea and told me to ignore the
crackpots.
But, I been following the debate in psychiatry about whether or not
borderline PD is a valid diagnosis --or a label abusive therapists hand
on people who challenge them.
MD's who dismiss borderline as a valid DSM diagnosis were giving a huge
boost in 2003 when a neuro-endocrinologist published results of a study
he did on a person slapped with the borderline dx who was unresponsive
to psych treatment.
**************************************************************
: Endocrine. 2003 Jul;21(2):153-8. Related Articles, Links
Antithyroid antibody-linked symptoms in borderline personality
disorder.
Geracioti TD Jr, Kling MA, Post RM, Gold PW.
Clinical Neuroendocrinology, National Institute of Mental Health,
Bethesda, MD, USA. geracioti@med.va.gov
Circulating thyroid autoantibodies are more prevalent in patients with
mood disorders than in the general population, but longitudinal
clinical data that establish a relationship between thyroid antibody
status and the course of any psychiatric syndrome have been lacking. In
addition, scant attention has been paid to thyroid hormones and
autoimmunity in borderline personality disorder (BPD). We report a case
of a patient with classic BPD whose fluctuating mood and, especially,
psychotic symptoms-rated using a double-blind method-were directly
linked to antithyroglobulin antibody titers serially determined over an
inpatient period of 275 d. Significantly lower psychosis and depression
ratings were seen during a 4-wk period of relatively low antithyroid
antibody titers, during blinded treatment with carbamazepine, than were
observed during two high autoantibody epochs. The significant positive
correlations between nurse- and patient-rated depression and thyroid
autoantibodies over the entire period of inpatient study were similar
to those also observed between urinary free cortisol levels and
depression; the positive correlation between antithyroglubulin antibody
titers and psychotic symptoms was stronger (r =3D +0.544; p < 0.002).
Although this patient had biochemical indices of primary
hypothyroidism, she showed only marginal improvement to
triiodothyronine (T3) and no apparent clinical response to sustained
levorotatory thyroxine (T4) administration; neither were antithyroid
antibody titers significantly associated with changes in T3, free T4,
or thyroid-stimulating hormone concentrations. She clinically
deteriorated during a 50-d fluoxetine trial. The present data
demonstrate a clinically significant, longitudinal correlation between
fluctuating antithyroid antibody titers and symptoms of borderline
psychopathology in our patient. It will be of interest to determine the
prevalence, pathophysiologic mechanisms, and treatment implications of
this putative autoimmune- BPD link.
Publication Types:
Case Reports
PMID: 12897379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
**************************************************************
An MD named Dr. Phelps updated his website regarding so called
borderline PD---following the publication of the above study as
follows:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/borderline.htm
"Update August 2003: here's a stunning new research finding that in my
opinion says a great deal about the nature of "borderline". A team
from the National Institutes of Mental Health, including Dr. Bob Post,
who has published a lot about bipolar disorder, studied a woman with
"borderline personality disorder" for nearly a year in their research
hospital. They found that when this woman had depression, and
especially when she had psychotic symptoms ..., she had increased
levels of an antibody to thyroid tissue in her bloodstream. Huh?
What is the connection here? Well, we know that one type of thyroid
disease is associated with these "autoantibodies" -- antibodies
directed toward one's own tissues, in this case thyroid tissue. That
is called Hashimoto's thyroiditis. There is some connection between
thyroid problems and mood problems, that's clear, but the nature of the
connection is not understood. So, it's a mystery as to why this
woman's thyroid antibodies would vary along with her mood and other
symptoms. Is the thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the
other way around? Or is some third problem causing both at the same
time? Just keep watching for more information on how thyroid, which is
similarly mysteriously involved in bipolar disorder, affects complex
mood conditions."
****************************
So I wrote that doctor a letter in response to his questions: "Is the
thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the other way around?
Or is some third problem causing both at the same time? "
And, I told him researchers discovered it IS a THIRD problem:
microchimerism---and attached the articles about microchimerims.
He replied and thanked me for the submission as he had no idea that
microchimera process even existed.
After all the abuse the stalking therapist and his buddies have heaped
upon me for listening to my REAL doctors-that my problem is
HASHIMOTO"S, I am going to make debunking the borderline Dx my next
crusade--so abusive therapists can't hang that on people who challenge
their ABUSE.
I want psychobabble people who hung the borderline dx on people who
challenged the MHP's belief system to be ridiculed just like Dr.
Benjamin Rush was for his prejudices causing him to make up fictitious
psych problmes like e "Negritude,"" Drapetomania" and
"Dysaethesia Aethiopis"
Seeing how many of hashimoto's patients continue to suffer from
anergiac depression, etc. even after hormone levels are normalized,
and,
seeing how such patients condition DETERIORATES if such symptoms are
treated with any psych meds----I am hoping endocrinology will change
the standard treatment of hashimotos with anergica depression to
SURGICAL REMOVAL of thyroid gland.
I discussed having my thyroid removed with different doctors over the
years--but, been repeatedly told removal is only "indicated" in
Hashimoto's where the thyroid swells up like an apple, and remains
swelled up--no matter what the treatment.
My thryoid swells up all the time, but, it's waxing and waning and
never remains swelled up for extended period of times---so I was never
eligible.
I hope these discoveries changes the standard treatment in my LIFETIME.
I have a whole bunch of articles seem to say that microchimerism from
the mother to her baby also occurs and the microchimerism PERSIST for
decades
It's linked to having a certain HLA?? T-lymphocyte???
I think microchimerism may be implicated in the TS'ers who have the
dysinhibition or stress triggered TS---cause so many of the people
with TS exacerbated by stress have dry skin when their TS waxes.
Perhaps, to the thyroid gland, or a different gland like the
pituatory, or hyperparathyroid; but, I bet it's microchimerism that
causes some people TS' because of the way some people's TS waxes and
wans--just like my hashimoto's!
Solving the mystery would be so, so, so, wonderful!
Of course, satisfactory treatment would be even better!
| |
|
| Sandy L wrote:
> "Linda" <adinlli...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20050118190034.10817.00000090@mb-m29.aol.com...
Disorders:[vbcol=seagreen]
Lymphocytes Is[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> That, I thought, was a fascinating idea. It is interesting to see
the
> confirmation. Thanks.
Hashimoto's is a dx requires medical treatment "for life."
So, I have been under constant medical care for the last 25 years.
My moving three times means I been seen and treated by three different
sets of GP's, Endo's, Neuro-endo's, and neuro-psychiatrists, etc.
Therefore, when the usenet crackpots started their usenet doktoring--I
found it highly doubtful that three different treatment teams would all
be so incompetent they wouldn't see the things that the crackpot's
self-servingly hang on those who challenge their usenut doktoring.
Even though I KNOW abusive therapists react to being challeged by
hanging personality dx's (especially borderline), I still approached
an expert and he scoffed at the idea and told me to ignore the
crackpots.
But, I been following the debate in psychiatry about whether or not
borderline PD is a valid diagnosis --or a label abusive therapists hand
on people who challenge them.
MD's who dismiss borderline as a valid DSM diagnosis were giving a huge
boost in 2003 when a neuro-endocrinologist published results of a study
he did on a person slapped with the borderline dx who was unresponsive
to psych treatment.
**************************************************************
: Endocrine. 2003 Jul;21(2):153-8. Related Articles, Links
Antithyroid antibody-linked symptoms in borderline personality
disorder.
Geracioti TD Jr, Kling MA, Post RM, Gold PW.
Clinical Neuroendocrinology, National Institute of Mental Health,
Bethesda, MD, USA. geraci...@med.va.gov
Circulating thyroid autoantibodies are more prevalent in patients with
mood disorders than in the general population, but longitudinal
clinical data that establish a relationship between thyroid antibody
status and the course of any psychiatric syndrome have been lacking. In
addition, scant attention has been paid to thyroid hormones and
autoimmunity in borderline personality disorder (BPD). We report a case
of a patient with classic BPD whose fluctuating mood and, especially,
psychotic symptoms-rated using a double-blind method-were directly
linked to antithyroglobulin antibody titers serially determined over an
inpatient period of 275 d. Significantly lower psychosis and depression
ratings were seen during a 4-wk period of relatively low antithyroid
antibody titers, during blinded treatment with carbamazepine, than were
observed during two high autoantibody epochs. The significant positive
correlations between nurse- and patient-rated depression and thyroid
autoantibodies over the entire period of inpatient study were similar
to those also observed between urinary free cortisol levels and
depression; the positive correlation between antithyroglubulin antibody
titers and psychotic symptoms was stronger (r =3D +0.544; p < 0.002).
Although this patient had biochemical indices of primary
hypothyroidism, she showed only marginal improvement to
triiodothyronine (T3) and no apparent clinical response to sustained
levorotatory thyroxine (T4) administration; neither were antithyroid
antibody titers significantly associated with changes in T3, free T4,
or thyroid-stimulating hormone concentrations. She clinically
deteriorated during a 50-d fluoxetine trial. The present data
demonstrate a clinically significant, longitudinal correlation between
fluctuating antithyroid antibody titers and symptoms of borderline
psychopathology in our patient. It will be of interest to determine the
prevalence, pathophysiologic mechanisms, and treatment implications of
this putative autoimmune- BPD link.
Publication Types:
Case Reports
PMID: 12897379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
**************************************************************
An MD named Dr. Phelps updated his website regarding so called
borderline PD---following the publication of the above study as
follows:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/borderline.htm
"Update August 2003: here's a stunning new research finding that in my
opinion says a great deal about the nature of "borderline". A team
from the National Institutes of Mental Health, including Dr. Bob Post,
who has published a lot about bipolar disorder, studied a woman with
"borderline personality disorder" for nearly a year in their research
hospital. They found that when this woman had depression, and
especially when she had psychotic symptoms ..., she had increased
levels of an antibody to thyroid tissue in her bloodstream. Huh?
What is the connection here? Well, we know that one type of thyroid
disease is associated with these "autoantibodies" -- antibodies
directed toward one's own tissues, in this case thyroid tissue. That
is called Hashimoto's thyroiditis. There is some connection between
thyroid problems and mood problems, that's clear, but the nature of the
connection is not understood. So, it's a mystery as to why this
woman's thyroid antibodies would vary along with her mood and other
symptoms. Is the thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the
other way around? Or is some third problem causing both at the same
time? Just keep watching for more information on how thyroid, which is
similarly mysteriously involved in bipolar disorder, affects complex
mood conditions."
****************************
So I wrote that doctor a letter in response to his questions: "Is the
thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the other way around?
Or is some third problem causing both at the same time? "
And, I told him researchers discovered it IS a THIRD problem:
microchimerism---and attached the articles about microchimerims.
He replied and thanked me for the submission as he had no idea that
microchimera process even existed.
After all the abuse the stalking therapist and his buddies have heaped
upon me for listening to my REAL doctors-that my problem is
HASHIMOTO"S, I am going to make debunking the borderline Dx my next
crusade--so abusive therapists can't hang that on people who challenge
their ABUSE.
I want psychobabble people who hung the borderline dx on people who
challenged the MHP's belief system to be ridiculed just like Dr.
Benjamin Rush was for his prejudices causing him to make up fictitious
psych problmes like e "Negritude,"" Drapetomania" and
"Dysaethesia Aethiopis"
Seeing how many of hashimoto's patients continue to suffer from
anergiac depression, etc. even after hormone levels are normalized,
and,
seeing how such patients condition DETERIORATES if such symptoms are
treated with any psych meds----I am hoping endocrinology will change
the standard treatment of hashimotos with anergica depression to
SURGICAL REMOVAL of thyroid gland.
I discussed having my thyroid removed with different doctors over the
years--but, been repeatedly told removal is only "indicated" in
Hashimoto's where the thyroid swells up like an apple, and remains
swelled up--no matter what the treatment.
My thryoid swells up all the time, but, it's waxing and waning and
never remains swelled up for extended period of times---so I was never
eligible.
I hope these discoveries changes the standard treatment in my LIFETIME.
I have a whole bunch of articles seem to say that microchimerism from
the mother to her baby also occurs and the microchimerism PERSIST for
decades
It's linked to having a certain HLA?? T-lymphocyte???
I think microchimerism may be implicated in the TS'ers who have the
dysinhibition or stress triggered TS---cause so many of the people
with TS exacerbated by stress have dry skin when their TS waxes.
Perhaps, to the thyroid gland, or a different gland like the
pituatory, or hyperparathyroid; but, I bet it's microchimerism that
causes some people TS' because of the way some people's TS waxes and
wans--just like my hashimoto's!
Solving the mystery would be so, so, so, wonderful!
Of course, satisfactory treatment would be even better!
Reply
| |
|
| Sandy L wrote:
> "Linda" <adinlli...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20050118190034.10817.00000090@mb-m29.aol.com...
Disorders:[vbcol=seagreen]
Lymphocytes Is[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> That, I thought, was a fascinating idea. It is interesting to see
the
> confirmation. Thanks.
Hashimoto's is a dx requires medical treatment "for life."
So, I have been under constant medical care for the last 25 years.
My moving three times means I been seen and treated by three different
sets of GP's, Endo's, Neuro-endo's, and neuro-psychiatrists, etc.
Therefore, when the usenet crackpots started their usenet doktoring--I
found it highly doubtful that three different treatment teams would all
be so incompetent they wouldn't see the things that the crackpot's
self-servingly hang on those who challenge their usenut doktoring.
Even though I KNOW abusive therapists react to being challeged by
hanging personality dx's (especially borderline), I still approached
an expert and he scoffed at the idea and told me to ignore the
crackpots.
But, I been following the debate in psychiatry about whether or not
borderline PD is a valid diagnosis --or a label abusive therapists hand
on people who challenge them.
MD's who dismiss borderline as a valid DSM diagnosis were giving a huge
boost in 2003 when a neuro-endocrinologist published results of a study
he did on a person slapped with the borderline dx who was unresponsive
to psych treatment.
**************************************************************
: Endocrine. 2003 Jul;21(2):153-8. Related Articles, Links
Antithyroid antibody-linked symptoms in borderline personality
disorder.
Geracioti TD Jr, Kling MA, Post RM, Gold PW.
Clinical Neuroendocrinology, National Institute of Mental Health,
Bethesda, MD, USA. geraci...@med.va.gov
Circulating thyroid autoantibodies are more prevalent in patients with
mood disorders than in the general population, but longitudinal
clinical data that establish a relationship between thyroid antibody
status and the course of any psychiatric syndrome have been lacking. In
addition, scant attention has been paid to thyroid hormones and
autoimmunity in borderline personality disorder (BPD). We report a case
of a patient with classic BPD whose fluctuating mood and, especially,
psychotic symptoms-rated using a double-blind method-were directly
linked to antithyroglobulin antibody titers serially determined over an
inpatient period of 275 d. Significantly lower psychosis and depression
ratings were seen during a 4-wk period of relatively low antithyroid
antibody titers, during blinded treatment with carbamazepine, than were
observed during two high autoantibody epochs. The significant positive
correlations between nurse- and patient-rated depression and thyroid
autoantibodies over the entire period of inpatient study were similar
to those also observed between urinary free cortisol levels and
depression; the positive correlation between antithyroglubulin antibody
titers and psychotic symptoms was stronger (r =3D +0.544; p < 0.002).
Although this patient had biochemical indices of primary
hypothyroidism, she showed only marginal improvement to
triiodothyronine (T3) and no apparent clinical response to sustained
levorotatory thyroxine (T4) administration; neither were antithyroid
antibody titers significantly associated with changes in T3, free T4,
or thyroid-stimulating hormone concentrations. She clinically
deteriorated during a 50-d fluoxetine trial. The present data
demonstrate a clinically significant, longitudinal correlation between
fluctuating antithyroid antibody titers and symptoms of borderline
psychopathology in our patient. It will be of interest to determine the
prevalence, pathophysiologic mechanisms, and treatment implications of
this putative autoimmune- BPD link.
Publication Types:
Case Reports
PMID: 12897379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
**************************************************************
An MD named Dr. Phelps updated his website regarding so called
borderline PD---following the publication of the above study as
follows:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/borderline.htm
"Update August 2003: here's a stunning new research finding that in my
opinion says a great deal about the nature of "borderline". A team
from the National Institutes of Mental Health, including Dr. Bob Post,
who has published a lot about bipolar disorder, studied a woman with
"borderline personality disorder" for nearly a year in their research
hospital. They found that when this woman had depression, and
especially when she had psychotic symptoms ..., she had increased
levels of an antibody to thyroid tissue in her bloodstream. Huh?
What is the connection here? Well, we know that one type of thyroid
disease is associated with these "autoantibodies" -- antibodies
directed toward one's own tissues, in this case thyroid tissue. That
is called Hashimoto's thyroiditis. There is some connection between
thyroid problems and mood problems, that's clear, but the nature of the
connection is not understood. So, it's a mystery as to why this
woman's thyroid antibodies would vary along with her mood and other
symptoms. Is the thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the
other way around? Or is some third problem causing both at the same
time? Just keep watching for more information on how thyroid, which is
similarly mysteriously involved in bipolar disorder, affects complex
mood conditions."
****************************
So I wrote that doctor a letter in response to his questions: "Is the
thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the other way around?
Or is some third problem causing both at the same time? "
And, I told him researchers discovered it IS a THIRD problem:
microchimerism---and attached the articles about microchimerims.
He replied and thanked me for the submission as he had no idea that
microchimera process even existed.
After all the abuse the stalking therapist and his buddies have heaped
upon me for listening to my REAL doctors-that my problem is
HASHIMOTO"S, I am going to make debunking the borderline Dx my next
crusade--so abusive therapists can't hang that on people who challenge
their ABUSE.
I want psychobabble people who hung the borderline dx on people who
challenged the MHP's belief system to be ridiculed just like Dr.
Benjamin Rush was for his prejudices causing him to make up fictitious
psych problmes like e "Negritude,"" Drapetomania" and
"Dysaethesia Aethiopis"
Seeing how many of hashimoto's patients continue to suffer from
anergiac depression, etc. even after hormone levels are normalized,
and,
seeing how such patients condition DETERIORATES if such symptoms are
treated with any psych meds----I am hoping endocrinology will change
the standard treatment of hashimotos with anergica depression to
SURGICAL REMOVAL of thyroid gland.
I discussed having my thyroid removed with different doctors over the
years--but, been repeatedly told removal is only "indicated" in
Hashimoto's where the thyroid swells up like an apple, and remains
swelled up--no matter what the treatment.
My thryoid swells up all the time, but, it's waxing and waning and
never remains swelled up for extended period of times---so I was never
eligible.
I hope these discoveries changes the standard treatment in my LIFETIME.
I have a whole bunch of articles seem to say that microchimerism from
the mother to her baby also occurs and the microchimerism PERSIST for
decades
It's linked to having a certain HLA?? T-lymphocyte???
I think microchimerism may be implicated in the TS'ers who have the
dysinhibition or stress triggered TS---cause so many of the people
with TS exacerbated by stress have dry skin when their TS waxes.
Perhaps, to the thyroid gland, or a different gland like the
pituatory, or hyperparathyroid; but, I bet it's microchimerism that
causes some people TS' because of the way some people's TS waxes and
wans--just like my hashimoto's!
Solving the mystery would be so, so, so, wonderful!
Of course, satisfactory treatment would be even better!
Reply
| |
|
| Sandy L wrote:
> "Linda" <adinllinda@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20050118190034.10817.00000090@mb-m29.aol.com...
Disorders:[vbcol=seagreen]
Lymphocytes Is[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That, I thought, was a fascinating idea. It is interesting to see
the
> confirmation. Thanks.
Hashimoto's is a dx requires medical treatment "for life."
So, I have been under constant medical care for the last 25 years.
My moving three times means I been seen and treated by three different
sets of GP's, Endo's, Neuro-endo's, and neuro-psychiatrists, etc.
Therefore, when the usenet crackpots started their usenet doktoring--I
found it highly doubtful that three different treatment teams would all
be so incompetent they wouldn't see the things that the crackpot's
self-servingly hang on those who challenge their usenut doktoring.
Even though I KNOW abusive therapists react to being challeged by
hanging personality dx's (especially borderline), I still approached
an expert and he scoffed at the idea and told me to ignore the
crackpots.
But, I been following the debate in psychiatry about whether or not
borderline PD is a valid diagnosis --or a label abusive therapists hand
on people who challenge them.
MD's who dismiss borderline as a valid DSM diagnosis were giving a huge
boost in 2003 when a neuro-endocrinologist published results of a study
he did on a person slapped with the borderline dx who was unresponsive
to psych treatment.
**************************************************************
: Endocrine. 2003 Jul;21(2):153-8. Related Articles, Links
Antithyroid antibody-linked symptoms in borderline personality
disorder.
Geracioti TD Jr, Kling MA, Post RM, Gold PW.
Clinical Neuroendocrinology, National Institute of Mental Health,
Bethesda, MD, USA. geracioti@med.va.gov
Circulating thyroid autoantibodies are more prevalent in patients with
mood disorders than in the general population, but longitudinal
clinical data that establish a relationship between thyroid antibody
status and the course of any psychiatric syndrome have been lacking. In
addition, scant attention has been paid to thyroid hormones and
autoimmunity in borderline personality disorder (BPD). We report a case
of a patient with classic BPD whose fluctuating mood and, especially,
psychotic symptoms-rated using a double-blind method-were directly
linked to antithyroglobulin antibody titers serially determined over an
inpatient period of 275 d. Significantly lower psychosis and depression
ratings were seen during a 4-wk period of relatively low antithyroid
antibody titers, during blinded treatment with carbamazepine, than were
observed during two high autoantibody epochs. The significant positive
correlations between nurse- and patient-rated depression and thyroid
autoantibodies over the entire period of inpatient study were similar
to those also observed between urinary free cortisol levels and
depression; the positive correlation between antithyroglubulin antibody
titers and psychotic symptoms was stronger (r =3D +0.544; p < 0.002).
Although this patient had biochemical indices of primary
hypothyroidism, she showed only marginal improvement to
triiodothyronine (T3) and no apparent clinical response to sustained
levorotatory thyroxine (T4) administration; neither were antithyroid
antibody titers significantly associated with changes in T3, free T4,
or thyroid-stimulating hormone concentrations. She clinically
deteriorated during a 50-d fluoxetine trial. The present data
demonstrate a clinically significant, longitudinal correlation between
fluctuating antithyroid antibody titers and symptoms of borderline
psychopathology in our patient. It will be of interest to determine the
prevalence, pathophysiologic mechanisms, and treatment implications of
this putative autoimmune- BPD link.
Publication Types:
Case Reports
PMID: 12897379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
**************************************************************
An MD named Dr. Phelps updated his website regarding so called
borderline PD---following the publication of the above study as
follows:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/borderline.htm
"Update August 2003: here's a stunning new research finding that in my
opinion says a great deal about the nature of "borderline". A team
from the National Institutes of Mental Health, including Dr. Bob Post,
who has published a lot about bipolar disorder, studied a woman with
"borderline personality disorder" for nearly a year in their research
hospital. They found that when this woman had depression, and
especially when she had psychotic symptoms ..., she had increased
levels of an antibody to thyroid tissue in her bloodstream. Huh?
What is the connection here? Well, we know that one type of thyroid
disease is associated with these "autoantibodies" -- antibodies
directed toward one's own tissues, in this case thyroid tissue. That
is called Hashimoto's thyroiditis. There is some connection between
thyroid problems and mood problems, that's clear, but the nature of the
connection is not understood. So, it's a mystery as to why this
woman's thyroid antibodies would vary along with her mood and other
symptoms. Is the thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the
other way around? Or is some third problem causing both at the same
time? Just keep watching for more information on how thyroid, which is
similarly mysteriously involved in bipolar disorder, affects complex
mood conditions."
****************************
So I wrote that doctor a letter in response to his questions: "Is the
thyroid change causing the mood change? Or is it the other way around?
Or is some third problem causing both at the same time? "
And, I told him researchers discovered it IS a THIRD problem:
microchimerism---and attached the articles about microchimerims.
He replied and thanked me for the submission as he had no idea that
microchimera process even existed.
After all the abuse the stalking therapist and his buddies have heaped
upon me for listening to my REAL doctors-that my problem is
HASHIMOTO"S, I am going to make debunking the borderline Dx my next
crusade--so abusive therapists can't hang that on people who challenge
their ABUSE.
I want psychobabble people who hung the borderline dx on people who
challenged the MHP's belief system to be ridiculed just like Dr.
Benjamin Rush was for his prejudices causing him to make up fictitious
psych problmes like e "Negritude,"" Drapetomania" and
"Dysaethesia Aethiopis"
Seeing how many of hashimoto's patients continue to suffer from
anergiac depression, etc. even after hormone levels are normalized,
and,
seeing how such patients condition DETERIORATES if such symptoms are
treated with any psych meds----I am hoping endocrinology will change
the standard treatment of hashimotos with anergica depression to
SURGICAL REMOVAL of thyroid gland.
I discussed having my thyroid removed with different doctors over the
years--but, been repeatedly told removal is only "indicated" in
Hashimoto's where the thyroid swells up like an apple, and remains
swelled up--no matter what the treatment.
My thryoid swells up all the time, but, it's waxing and waning and
never remains swelled up for extended period of times---so I was never
eligible.
I hope these discoveries changes the standard treatment in my LIFETIME.
I have a whole bunch of articles seem to say that microchimerism from
the mother to her baby also occurs and the microchimerism PERSIST for
decades
It's linked to having a certain HLA?? T-lymphocyte???
I think microchimerism may be implicated in the TS'ers who have the
dysinhibition or stress triggered TS---cause so many of the people
with TS exacerbated by stress have dry skin when their TS waxes.
Perhaps, to the thyroid gland, or a different gland like the
pituatory, or hyperparathyroid; but, I bet it's microchimerism that
causes some people TS' because of the way some people's TS waxes and
wans--just like my hashimoto's!
Solving the mystery would be so, so, so, wonderful!
Of course, satisfactory treatment would be even better!
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