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Not all Americans have a troubled view
|
|
| Martijn 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| American on EuroLyme said:
"I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to sway
the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
what is going on right here in the United States."
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
|
Martijn wrote:
> American on EuroLyme said:
>
> "I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to
sway
> the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
> what is going on right here in the United States."
Yes, well, I hope you understand that as an American...I don't assume
that all people in the Netherlands have such "a troubled view" that
they are running around torching mosques and Muslim schools following
the murder of Theo van Gogh.(I am unaware of ANY such incidents here,
by the way, following 9/11...although I may be mistaken about that)...
I would, however, hasten to add that whoever said such a thing ( the
Hitler analogy) is displaying his/her own opinion...
....which is miserably "troubled", as you put it.
| |
| mcpucho@yahoo.com 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| as soon as you use hitler in an analogy you lose all credibility
whatsoever.
| |
|
| On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:09:33 +0100, Martijn <Kw3Ls@hotmail.com> wrote:
>American on EuroLyme said:
>
>"I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to sway
>the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
>what is going on right here in the United States."
It's not just an american problem. News organizations such as Fox blur
the line between opinion and fact. Many Fox viewers still believe
WMD's where in Iraq and Saddam had strong ties to Al-quada. It
doesn't take much to pass on a lie if it jives with what the viewer
would like to hear. Troublesome.
| |
|
| On 14 Dec 2004 17:45:03 -0800, derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>Martijn wrote:
>sway
>
>
>
>
>Yes, well, I hope you understand that as an American...I don't assume
>that all people in the Netherlands have such "a troubled view" that
>they are running around torching mosques and Muslim schools following
>the murder of Theo van Gogh.(I am unaware of ANY such incidents here,
>by the way, following 9/11...although I may be mistaken about that)...
>
right or wrong I think we see the future of terrorrism brings. I'm
confident that if continued attacks occur in america innocent mosques
and schools will be targeted. Maybe then the radical muslims will
realize they are hurting there own with these attacks. you listening
Frank.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:mc10s01t1h531tpe1mkci6ep7ucc86bdph@4ax.com...
> right or wrong I think we see the future of terrorrism brings. I'm
> confident that if continued attacks occur in america innocent mosques
> and schools will be targeted. Maybe then the radical muslims will
> realize they are hurting there own with these attacks. you listening
> Frank.
First of all I'm not a muslim. Not even close.
Secondly I am fully aware that muslims face worldwide genocide by the US
already.
If they attack the US, the US will eradicate them off the face of the earth,
will do worse things to them as Hitler did to the Jews.
Basically, the average Republican has the opinion that the life of one
republican is worth a billion other lives, so they have a God-given rights
to nuke the entire muslim world and put all muslims in destruction camps
when someone attacks the US again.
Scary but true.
Meaning that the only hope for mankind is the Russia-China alliance.
Because the US will just as easily annihilate Europe or any other country
"preemptively", to prevent them from "challenging the position of the United
States".
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| <mcpucho@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103079845.212759.227540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> as soon as you use hitler in an analogy you lose all credibility
> whatsoever.
Utter bullshit.
Hitler works fine in analogies, as long asd used properly.
It's Hitlerites that invented Godwins' Law.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:2210s05dtpt4nkq4biutg7qtmei77fc4ff@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:09:33 +0100, Martijn <Kw3Ls@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not just an american problem. News organizations such as Fox blur
> the line between opinion and fact. Many Fox viewers still believe
> WMD's where in Iraq and Saddam had strong ties to Al-quada. It
> doesn't take much to pass on a lie if it jives with what the viewer
> would like to hear. Troublesome.
Not just Fox ("Pentagon TV").
CNN, stations that americans deem "communist" in fact also toe the "party
line" and are utterly biassed and produce nothing but lies, fabrications and
bullshit. It was so bad that during the second attack on Iraq, the Amsterdam
council took CNN off the air for weeks because CNN was demonstrably telling
outrageous lies and believe me, even the Dutch are not as gullible that you
can feed them bullshit with a shovel and have them say: "Thank you, can I
have another helping".
| |
|
| On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:58:46 +0100, "Frank de Groot"
<ask@privately.com.INVALID> wrote:
>"dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
>news:mc10s01t1h531tpe1mkci6ep7ucc86bdph@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>First of all I'm not a muslim. Not even close.
>
>Secondly I am fully aware that muslims face worldwide genocide by the US
>already.
>If they attack the US, the US will eradicate them off the face of the earth,
>will do worse things to them as Hitler did to the Jews.
>
>Basically, the average Republican has the opinion that the life of one
>republican is worth a billion other lives, so they have a God-given rights
>to nuke the entire muslim world and put all muslims in destruction camps
>when someone attacks the US again.
>Scary but true.
>
>Meaning that the only hope for mankind is the Russia-China alliance.
>
>Because the US will just as easily annihilate Europe or any other country
>"preemptively", to prevent them from "challenging the position of the United
>States".
>
Just pointing out that terrorism is a suicidal dead end for everyone
concerned. The only hope for mankind is democracy and an end to
terrorism.
| |
|
| On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:02:45 +0100, "Frank de Groot"
<ask@privately.com.INVALID> wrote:
>"dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
>news:2210s05dtpt4nkq4biutg7qtmei77fc4ff@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>Not just Fox ("Pentagon TV").
>
>CNN, stations that americans deem "communist" in fact also toe the "party
>line" and are utterly biassed and produce nothing but lies, fabrications and
>bullshit. It was so bad that during the second attack on Iraq, the Amsterdam
>council took CNN off the air for weeks because CNN was demonstrably telling
>outrageous lies and believe me, even the Dutch are not as gullible that you
>can feed them bullshit with a shovel and have them say: "Thank you, can I
>have another helping".
>
These lies are?
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:mj71s01s12b4lf1igg445fb1e9iff699tc@4ax.com...
> Just pointing out that terrorism is a suicidal dead end for everyone
> concerned. The only hope for mankind is democracy and an end to
> terrorism.
You gotta be kidding.
How old are you??
| |
| mcpucho@yahoo.com 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| while i am NO fan of the bush-shit administration they're is no way in
hell that the US will "eradicate" muslims off of the face of the earth.
afterall, in the crudest sense, they are good business partners.
on the radical muslim issue their are MANY clerics calling for
refection and modern reformation of Islam. It will take 50 yrs but it
will happen. there was a good article in the nytimes about a summit in
Egypt, i think, addressing this just the other day, if you want to look
it up.
secondly, do you remember abu-gharib? "good" journalism, which is hard
to find sometimes, is all over, on the spot in the "decisive moment",
to quote Bresson. you couldn't be gassing people, like the nazis,
without it hitting the press in hrs to days (god forbid days to wait on
a story).
on the other hand you can commit genocide in africa or the balkans and
it takes 5 yrs before the international elite do anything. why?
because they have no assests, they are not good trading partners.
Christiana Amanpour and a dozen other brave correspondents and brave
photojournalists broke open the Balkans and Chechyna. Yes it took
months until the "press" started listening and the elite had to react.
why? it's the pitiful, pathetic truth of "it", contemporary
geopolitics, and it is the ULTIMATE failure of the UN, which needs a
complete reformation and an internal affairs investigation up the
wazoo.
while china-russia could be a great power bloc, as someone mentioned,
they will never be cohesive, those are two very stubborn, narccistic
countries with very different cultural heritages. won't happen. BIG
TIME long shot.
on the average republican, they are not a problem. (btw, i am a
registered independent only because there is no socialist democratic
party in the US, and the Green party is a joke) it's either the
conservative extremists (who are currently running the show) and thier
ignorant/uneducated followers.
have you ever even been to America?
as for the credibility argument and Hitler it is futile logic to use
Hitler to make a point. he is the modern archetype of absolute,
unadulterated evil. calling someone Hitler is like painting horns, a
mustache and a tail on someone's picture.
| |
| Greatcod 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
|
Not a Hitler thing exactly, but a kind of neo-facist
precursor...waiting for another large scale terrorist attack, or
serious economic trouble, the collapse of the dollar, or the real
estate bubble, to really assert itself.
Bush was just delighted with that goon Kerik as the Homeland Security
nominee.
With Torture Man as the AG, the tools were in place. But without
another Big Event, its not going to happen.
| |
|
| On 15 Dec 2004 13:10:14 -0800, "Greatcod" <Greatcod@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Not a Hitler thing exactly, but a kind of neo-facist
>precursor...waiting for another large scale terrorist attack, or
>serious economic trouble, the collapse of the dollar, or the real
>estate bubble, to really assert itself.
>Bush was just delighted with that goon Kerik as the Homeland Security
>nominee.
>With Torture Man as the AG, the tools were in place. But without
>another Big Event, its not going to happen.
Nice point. The tearing away of or freedoms will come in the guise of
protecting us. Haven't read about the real estate bubble???
| |
| ChuckPAdams04 2004-12-15, 6:26 pm |
| Frank has Nazi blood in him, ask him.
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 7:08 am |
|
Martijn wrote:
> American on EuroLyme said:
>
> "I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to
sway
> the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
> what is going on right here in the United States."
Yes, well, I hope you understand that as an American...I don't assume
that all people in the Netherlands have such "a troubled view" that
they are running around torching mosques and Muslim schools following
the murder of Theo van Gogh.(I am unaware of ANY such incidents here,
by the way, following 9/11...although I may be mistaken about that)...
I would, however, hasten to add that whoever said such a thing ( the
Hitler analogy) is displaying his/her own opinion...
....which is miserably "troubled", as you put it.
| |
| mcpucho@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 7:08 am |
| as soon as you use hitler in an analogy you lose all credibility
whatsoever.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-17, 7:08 am |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:mc10s01t1h531tpe1mkci6ep7ucc86bdph@4ax.com...
> right or wrong I think we see the future of terrorrism brings. I'm
> confident that if continued attacks occur in america innocent mosques
> and schools will be targeted. Maybe then the radical muslims will
> realize they are hurting there own with these attacks. you listening
> Frank.
First of all I'm not a muslim. Not even close.
Secondly I am fully aware that muslims face worldwide genocide by the US
already.
If they attack the US, the US will eradicate them off the face of the earth,
will do worse things to them as Hitler did to the Jews.
Basically, the average Republican has the opinion that the life of one
republican is worth a billion other lives, so they have a God-given rights
to nuke the entire muslim world and put all muslims in destruction camps
when someone attacks the US again.
Scary but true.
Meaning that the only hope for mankind is the Russia-China alliance.
Because the US will just as easily annihilate Europe or any other country
"preemptively", to prevent them from "challenging the position of the United
States".
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| Martijn wrote:
> American on EuroLyme said:
>
> "I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to sway
> the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
> what is going on right here in the United States."
I was just so surprised to see an American on a Lyme forum critisizing
the USA. It's rare to see an American on regular forums who is noticing
something is wrong with the USA and dares to speak. Of course, you can
doubt the quality of the analogy, but that wasn't my point.I didn't
expect such emotional responds, but I should have known better.
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| Yes, well, what a "fierce topic on this board", Martijn!
Try to calm down a little bit?
And...really, I think if you want to you can find plenty of criticism
of America on this board...and others. It's something, as Americans, we
cherish the right to do.
But, honestly...whether you are aware of it or not...I think there is a
GREAT deal that you or another frequent "contributor"(and I use that
term sarcastically) do NOT understand about America...and you are
demonstrating that lack of understanding with your frequent posts which
seem moreethan a little condescending, lecturing...and
"frank"ly...ill-informed.
One thing that I WISH you might consider...is that there is a
substantial difference between whether an individual in this country
agrees with, say our Iraq policy...and how our government interacts in
the world on our behalf.
In other words, while I might agree with those who would suggest that
theeprimary impetus for our "intervention" in Iraq is the control of
oil supplies...
....I think it is VERY important for you to try to consider that there
are American families who are giving up their loved ones...
....because they believe that they are fighting for the FREEDOM of the
peoples of Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are fighting and dying. Perhaps you would like to think about
that...and consider that before lecturing us.
....and...
....it would APPEAR that officials in a great many countries...and
particularly in Europe...MAY have been complicit in STEALING
humanitarian aid from the Iraqi people in conspiracy with the monster
Saddam Hussein.
Perhaps you would like to consider that everything is not so black and
white in terms of morality as you may think.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| > We are fighting and dying. Perhaps you would like to think about
> that...and consider that before lecturing us.
You are dying in the process of illegally occupying a country, whilst
murdering tens of thousands of its civillians, using illegal weapons of mass
destruction. You are being killed by the legitimate army and police force
and underground resistance forces of a coutnry that has been attacked
against the will of the United Nations.
It is important too keep that in perspective.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| "Frank de Groot" <franciad@online.no> wrote in message
news:3uIwd.522$Sl3.8754@news4.e.nsc.no...
> It is important too keep that in perspective.
Oh, I forgot, you are dying whilst stealing all of Iraq's oil output for the
past 1.5 years.
Officially that oil goes to "paying back the cost of liberation and to build
up the country".
Don't let me laugh.
Doesn't it feel great, to die for the gas that goes into Mr. Rumsfeld's SUV?
--
Frank de Groot
Hegdehaugsveien 21
0352 Oslo
Norge
franciad@online.no
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> Yes, well, what a "fierce topic on this board", Martijn!
>
> Try to calm down a little bit?
Hehe =D
Did you like the post?
My twin-bro, Martijn-the-angel, is responsable for that. 
So, you read LymeNet.org. Do you post there?
BTW I'm very calm.
> ...it would APPEAR that officials in a great many countries...and
> particularly in Europe...MAY have been complicit in STEALING
> humanitarian aid from the Iraqi people in conspiracy with the monster
> Saddam Hussein.
Oh yeah, and wasn't chemical stuff from Germany spread by helicopters
from france. How "funny" is that? Last week a Netherlander (i think
"Dutch" is a confusing word) was arrested, because he sold chemical
stuff to Iraq. And yes, the burning of Muslim schools was sad too. I
don't like those white power people, who do that. (some school's were
burned by just some kids, I forgive them, just hope later they will
realise it was bad).
> Perhaps you would like to consider that everything is not so black and
> white in terms of morality as you may think.
I know that! I want to know the truth, the facts, and I am worried about
the Bush administration.
Happy holidays! ;)
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
|
Martijn wrote:
> derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> "Hehe =D
> Did you like the post?
> My twin-bro, Martijn-the-angel, is responsable for that".
Yes, actually, I did.
>
> "So, you read LymeNet.org. Do you post there"?
No, I don't post there...and if you saw "Bad LLMD" that is a good
reason why one shouldn't. "Oncebitten" is a VERY samrt lady who mhas
done a LOT of good for others. She has taken a few docs to task...and
for that she gets assaulted. Disgraceful. Lymeland doesn't want the
truth.
> "BTW I'm very calm".
You seem that way...usually...trying to stir up a little trouble? Devil
or angel?
>
monster[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Oh yeah, and wasn't chemical stuff from Germany spread by helicopters
> from france. How "funny" is that? Last week a Netherlander (i think
> "Dutch" is a confusing word) was arrested, because he sold chemical
> stuff to Iraq. And yes, the burning of Muslim schools was sad too. I
> don't like those white power people, who do that. (some school's were
> burned by just some kids, I forgive them, just hope later they will
> realise it was bad).
>
and[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> "I know that! I want to know the truth, the facts, and I am worried
about
> the Bush administration".
So are a great many of us, Martijn.
>
> Happy holidays! ;)
Same to you!!!
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| Frank:
I might agree with you...as I said...that the overall impetus from the
US government neocon policy-makers was strategic...and oil-oriented...
....but what I am saying is that there are Americans...damn good people
who have died because they believe in their hearts...that they are
fighting for the freedom of other people...the right to live free.
Can you try to understand that?
Can you understand that while the government's motives may be less than
pure...
....the individual who fights and dies might do so with a pure heart and
the highest of intentions?
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| No.
We are fighting for Royal Dutch Shell.
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> No, I don't post there...and if you saw "Bad LLMD" that is a good
> reason why one shouldn't.
Sure I saw the "Bad LLMD" topic. It was the inspiration for the
calm-down-post.
I was amazed how aggressive some people reacted, also from people who
are "believers". You know the praying mantis, that prays before it
strikes deadly?
It irrated me that some people asked for deletion of the topic, "where
are the moderaters", bla bla. Please don't delete it, for God's sake! :@
> You seem that way...usually...trying to stir up a little trouble? Devil
> or angel?
Erm.. Both sometimes. :P ..But I do mean well.
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> No.
>
> We are fighting for Royal Dutch Shell.
Not ESSO? That contains the letters EO, which is an evangelic
broadcasting in the Netherlands. The other two letters also stand for
something..
Devil Martijn
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-17, 7:10 pm |
| > ...but what I am saying is that there are Americans...damn good people
> who have died because they believe in their hearts...that they are
> fighting for the freedom of other people...the right to live free.
>
> Can you try to understand that?
Of course.
Very sad situation for those poor sods that have been tricked into that
situation.
But the situation is much worse for the Iraqi's and they have no choice.
> ...the individual who fights and dies might do so with a pure heart and
> the highest of intentions?
I did not notice that.
I just noticed that the soldiers sing songs about "kill them all" and they
paint such slogans on their tanks, I hear about atrocities, torture, rape, I
see clips of killings of unarmed wounded, I hear about CIA assasination
operation and of old poeple getting killed when the soldiers ram their
doors. I hear of families shot up at checkpoints and left to die on the
side of the road in view of the soldiers.
I hear of random retalatory shooting when a humvee has been blown up. I hear
of women being forced to show their genitals to soldiers.
I did not heasr much about those wonderful soldier with perfect intentions.
Soldier are trained to kill and that is their profession, they get paid to
kill people.
Nothing noble about it, they are mercenaries, killers for cash.
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 10:07 pm |
| Yes, I agree about the calls for censorship. It's ugly.
So are attempts to censor people off of unmoderated boards with
thinly-veiled threats.
I am sure that you mean well...believe it or not...so do I. I just
don't like to show it.
BTW...OT...
(I was doing some research on a topic I have been studying
lately...about the "Bear people"...Arturus...Arcas...Callisto. The
Phoenicians...of Ursa major and minor...and it said that they believed
that the universe was controlled, in essence, from Mars. God is a
Martian? Where have I heard this before)?
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-17, 10:07 pm |
| "The situation is much worse for the Iraqis and they have no choice".
Yes. And even by conservative US estimates, there are easily now
100,000 Iraqi dead. I disagree, however, that the Iraqis "don't have a
choice."
In Afghanistan, a woman ran for national office recently.
Think about it.
| |
|
| On 17 Dec 2004 13:33:07 -0800, derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
>Yes, well, what a "fierce topic on this board", Martijn!
>
>Try to calm down a little bit?
>
>And...really, I think if you want to you can find plenty of criticism
>of America on this board...and others. It's something, as Americans, we
>cherish the right to do.
>
>But, honestly...whether you are aware of it or not...I think there is a
>GREAT deal that you or another frequent "contributor"(and I use that
>term sarcastically) do NOT understand about America...and you are
>demonstrating that lack of understanding with your frequent posts which
>seem moreethan a little condescending, lecturing...and
>"frank"ly...ill-informed.
>
>One thing that I WISH you might consider...is that there is a
>substantial difference between whether an individual in this country
>agrees with, say our Iraq policy...and how our government interacts in
>the world on our behalf.
>
>In other words, while I might agree with those who would suggest that
>theeprimary impetus for our "intervention" in Iraq is the control of
>oil supplies...
>
>...I think it is VERY important for you to try to consider that there
>are American families who are giving up their loved ones...
>
>...because they believe that they are fighting for the FREEDOM of the
>peoples of Afghanistan and Iraq.
>
>We are fighting and dying. Perhaps you would like to think about
>that...and consider that before lecturing us.
>
>...and...
>
>...it would APPEAR that officials in a great many countries...and
>particularly in Europe...MAY have been complicit in STEALING
>humanitarian aid from the Iraqi people in conspiracy with the monster
>Saddam Hussein.
>
>Perhaps you would like to consider that everything is not so black and
>white in terms of morality as you may think.
Nicely put. I knew you lawyers where good for something.
| |
| Greatcod 2004-12-17, 10:07 pm |
|
I remember that in the presidential campaign of 2000, both Bush and
Gore
promised that the American People would liberate the Iraqis from the
terrible rule of the evil dictator, whatever the cost, and establish
democracy there.
The airwaves and newspapers were overwhelmed by the response of people
eager to free Iraqis. Most of us talked of nothing else that year.
Get real, not one person here in 1000 gave a shit about the wellbeing
of
Iraqis: most were not even aware of the consequences of the elder
Bush's
encouragement of the Shite uprising after Gulf WarI, and his failure to
support it.
| |
|
| On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:09:33 +0100, Martijn <Kw3Ls@hotmail.com> wrote:
>American on EuroLyme said:
>
>"I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to sway
>the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
>what is going on right here in the United States."
It's not just an american problem. News organizations such as Fox blur
the line between opinion and fact. Many Fox viewers still believe
WMD's where in Iraq and Saddam had strong ties to Al-quada. It
doesn't take much to pass on a lie if it jives with what the viewer
would like to hear. Troublesome.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-18, 2:07 am |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:2210s05dtpt4nkq4biutg7qtmei77fc4ff@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:09:33 +0100, Martijn <Kw3Ls@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not just an american problem. News organizations such as Fox blur
> the line between opinion and fact. Many Fox viewers still believe
> WMD's where in Iraq and Saddam had strong ties to Al-quada. It
> doesn't take much to pass on a lie if it jives with what the viewer
> would like to hear. Troublesome.
Not just Fox ("Pentagon TV").
CNN, stations that americans deem "communist" in fact also toe the "party
line" and are utterly biassed and produce nothing but lies, fabrications and
bullshit. It was so bad that during the second attack on Iraq, the Amsterdam
council took CNN off the air for weeks because CNN was demonstrably telling
outrageous lies and believe me, even the Dutch are not as gullible that you
can feed them bullshit with a shovel and have them say: "Thank you, can I
have another helping".
| |
|
| On 17 Dec 2004 19:21:25 -0800, "Greatcod" <Greatcod@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I remember that in the presidential campaign of 2000, both Bush and
>Gore
>promised that the American People would liberate the Iraqis from the
>terrible rule of the evil dictator, whatever the cost, and establish
>democracy there.
>The airwaves and newspapers were overwhelmed by the response of people
>eager to free Iraqis. Most of us talked of nothing else that year.
>Get real, not one person here in 1000 gave a shit about the wellbeing
>of
>Iraqis: most were not even aware of the consequences of the elder
>Bush's
>encouragement of the Shite uprising after Gulf WarI, and his failure to
>support it.
Your making a blanket statement about "everyone" in america. Like
Det. pointed out many of us wanted to liberate Iraq from Saddam. Who,
if you ask most Iraqies themselves, they are glad to get rid of. Talk
about violence. That said, if they want us out, just vote us out. They
now have that right.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-18, 7:07 am |
| <derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103336449.313939.245670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> In Afghanistan, a woman ran for national office recently.
> Think about it.
Iraq had a whole bunch of women in their parliament, before the US disbanded
it (and put the women in jail where they still reside)
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-18, 7:07 am |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:a9f7s0tpqe5cdsdmkua3p9t0evma29g9co@4ax.com...
> about violence. That said, if they want us out, just vote us out. They
> now have that right.
You gotta be a freakin' loonie to believe that.
The US said recently that they are building their many permanent military
bases for a "ten-year period".
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-18, 7:07 am |
| <mcpucho@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103079845.212759.227540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> as soon as you use hitler in an analogy you lose all credibility
> whatsoever.
Utter bullshit.
Hitler works fine in analogies, as long asd used properly.
It's Hitlerites that invented Godwins' Law.
| |
|
| On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:02:45 +0100, "Frank de Groot"
<ask@privately.com.INVALID> wrote:
>"dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
>news:2210s05dtpt4nkq4biutg7qtmei77fc4ff@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>Not just Fox ("Pentagon TV").
>
>CNN, stations that americans deem "communist" in fact also toe the "party
>line" and are utterly biassed and produce nothing but lies, fabrications and
>bullshit. It was so bad that during the second attack on Iraq, the Amsterdam
>council took CNN off the air for weeks because CNN was demonstrably telling
>outrageous lies and believe me, even the Dutch are not as gullible that you
>can feed them bullshit with a shovel and have them say: "Thank you, can I
>have another helping".
>
These lies are?
| |
|
| On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:58:46 +0100, "Frank de Groot"
<ask@privately.com.INVALID> wrote:
>"dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
>news:mc10s01t1h531tpe1mkci6ep7ucc86bdph@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>First of all I'm not a muslim. Not even close.
>
>Secondly I am fully aware that muslims face worldwide genocide by the US
>already.
>If they attack the US, the US will eradicate them off the face of the earth,
>will do worse things to them as Hitler did to the Jews.
>
>Basically, the average Republican has the opinion that the life of one
>republican is worth a billion other lives, so they have a God-given rights
>to nuke the entire muslim world and put all muslims in destruction camps
>when someone attacks the US again.
>Scary but true.
>
>Meaning that the only hope for mankind is the Russia-China alliance.
>
>Because the US will just as easily annihilate Europe or any other country
>"preemptively", to prevent them from "challenging the position of the United
>States".
>
Just pointing out that terrorism is a suicidal dead end for everyone
concerned. The only hope for mankind is democracy and an end to
terrorism.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-18, 7:07 am |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:mj71s01s12b4lf1igg445fb1e9iff699tc@4ax.com...
> Just pointing out that terrorism is a suicidal dead end for everyone
> concerned. The only hope for mankind is democracy and an end to
> terrorism.
You gotta be kidding.
How old are you??
| |
| Martian 2004-12-18, 11:07 am |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> (I was doing some research on a topic I have been studying
> lately...about the "Bear people"...Arturus...Arcas...Callisto. The
> Phoenicians...of Ursa major and minor...and it said that they believed
> that the universe was controlled, in essence, from Mars. God is a
> Martian? Where have I heard this before)?
>
It must have sprouted from my archetypical memory..
| |
|
| On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:27:03 +0100, "Frank de Groot"
<franciad@online.no> wrote:
>"dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
>news:a9f7s0tpqe5cdsdmkua3p9t0evma29g9co@4ax.com...
>
>
>You gotta be a freakin' loonie to believe that.
>The US said recently that they are building their many permanent military
>bases for a "ten-year period".
>
>
Frank, many countries have made the americans pull their bases out. In
so doing they of course loose a large infusion of cash.In south
america their are many leftist elected countries that, while not loved
by the administration, they are accepted as the will of the people.
Thats all I want to see. The will of the people. Frank in america
their is a large minority who hates Bush almost as much as you do. He
will be gone in 4 years.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-18, 11:07 am |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:dph8s0pnpuiu08herm8021tpi4g8o53npc@4ax.com...
>
> Frank, many countries have made the americans pull their bases out. In
> so doing they of course loose a large infusion of cash.In south
Loosing child-rapes in Japan, you mean.
You gotta be kidding.
45,000 US soldiers blowing their salary on beer and whores in a country like
Germany that has 80,000,000 inhabitants and you think those Germans will
notice even a 0.01% drop in whatever?
Stop fooling yourself.
The US occupational powers are not "bringing economic prosperity", they are
there to target Russia with nukes on the territory of their "allies".
> their is a large minority who hates Bush almost as much as you do. He
> will be gone in 4 years.
Bullshit.
Bush lost the election twice, and he grabbed power twice nevertheless.
You think it will suddenly change?
| |
| mcpucho@yahoo.com 2004-12-19, 4:06 am |
| while i am NO fan of the bush-shit administration they're is no way in
hell that the US will "eradicate" muslims off of the face of the earth.
afterall, in the crudest sense, they are good business partners.
on the radical muslim issue their are MANY clerics calling for
refection and modern reformation of Islam. It will take 50 yrs but it
will happen. there was a good article in the nytimes about a summit in
Egypt, i think, addressing this just the other day, if you want to look
it up.
secondly, do you remember abu-gharib? "good" journalism, which is hard
to find sometimes, is all over, on the spot in the "decisive moment",
to quote Bresson. you couldn't be gassing people, like the nazis,
without it hitting the press in hrs to days (god forbid days to wait on
a story).
on the other hand you can commit genocide in africa or the balkans and
it takes 5 yrs before the international elite do anything. why?
because they have no assests, they are not good trading partners.
Christiana Amanpour and a dozen other brave correspondents and brave
photojournalists broke open the Balkans and Chechyna. Yes it took
months until the "press" started listening and the elite had to react.
why? it's the pitiful, pathetic truth of "it", contemporary
geopolitics, and it is the ULTIMATE failure of the UN, which needs a
complete reformation and an internal affairs investigation up the
wazoo.
while china-russia could be a great power bloc, as someone mentioned,
they will never be cohesive, those are two very stubborn, narccistic
countries with very different cultural heritages. won't happen. BIG
TIME long shot.
on the average republican, they are not a problem. (btw, i am a
registered independent only because there is no socialist democratic
party in the US, and the Green party is a joke) it's either the
conservative extremists (who are currently running the show) and thier
ignorant/uneducated followers.
have you ever even been to America?
as for the credibility argument and Hitler it is futile logic to use
Hitler to make a point. he is the modern archetype of absolute,
unadulterated evil. calling someone Hitler is like painting horns, a
mustache and a tail on someone's picture.
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-19, 7:09 pm |
| Martijn wrote:
> American on EuroLyme said:
>
> "I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to sway
> the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
> what is going on right here in the United States."
I hereby take full distance from this quote. I cannot rely on
assessment-capabilities of the writer. About the dangerous article "New
Ideas About The Cause, Spread and Therapy of Lyme Disease" by Dr. James
Howenstine, this person said the following:
"I was so heartened to see this article in The Townsend Letter for
Doctors and Patients. It confirms what I've written about in the past
and know in my heart to be true. Please pass this on to doctors and
anyone afflicted with these chronic illnesses. We desperately need to
spread the word".
Forgive me my rare moment of imprudence, it was way past my bedtime when
I posted that.
| |
|
| On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:24:47 +0100, "Frank de Groot"
<franciad@online.no> wrote:
>"dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
>news:dph8s0pnpuiu08herm8021tpi4g8o53npc@4ax.com...
>
>Loosing child-rapes in Japan, you mean.
>
>You gotta be kidding.
>45,000 US soldiers blowing their salary on beer and whores in a country like
>Germany that has 80,000,000 inhabitants and you think those Germans will
>notice even a 0.01% drop in whatever?
>
>Stop fooling yourself.
>The US occupational powers are not "bringing economic prosperity", they are
>there to target Russia with nukes on the territory of their "allies".
>
Germany is going to lose a whole freaking town because america is
pulling out. Last time I checked military people eat just like regular
folks.
>
>
>Bullshit.
>Bush lost the election twice, and he grabbed power twice nevertheless.
>You think it will suddenly change?
>
>
He lost it once. If the democrats could get someone even remotely
appealing Bush would have been out on his XXX. Think about it. In a
time of war and he just barely wins. He's damn lucky the democrats are
so stupid.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-20, 4:06 am |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:a9f7s0tpqe5cdsdmkua3p9t0evma29g9co@4ax.com...
> about violence. That said, if they want us out, just vote us out. They
> now have that right.
You gotta be a freakin' loonie to believe that.
The US said recently that they are building their many permanent military
bases for a "ten-year period".
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| "Frank de Groot" <franciad@online.no> wrote in message
news:3uIwd.522$Sl3.8754@news4.e.nsc.no...
> It is important too keep that in perspective.
Oh, I forgot, you are dying whilst stealing all of Iraq's oil output for the
past 1.5 years.
Officially that oil goes to "paying back the cost of liberation and to build
up the country".
Don't let me laugh.
Doesn't it feel great, to die for the gas that goes into Mr. Rumsfeld's SUV?
--
Frank de Groot
Hegdehaugsveien 21
0352 Oslo
Norge
franciad@online.no
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> Yes, well, what a "fierce topic on this board", Martijn!
>
> Try to calm down a little bit?
Hehe =D
Did you like the post?
My twin-bro, Martijn-the-angel, is responsable for that.
So, you read LymeNet.org. Do you post there?
BTW I'm very calm.
> ...it would APPEAR that officials in a great many countries...and
> particularly in Europe...MAY have been complicit in STEALING
> humanitarian aid from the Iraqi people in conspiracy with the monster
> Saddam Hussein.
Oh yeah, and wasn't chemical stuff from Germany spread by helicopters
from france. How "funny" is that? Last week a Netherlander (i think
"Dutch" is a confusing word) was arrested, because he sold chemical
stuff to Iraq. And yes, the burning of Muslim schools was sad too. I
don't like those white power people, who do that. (some school's were
burned by just some kids, I forgive them, just hope later they will
realise it was bad).
> Perhaps you would like to consider that everything is not so black and
> white in terms of morality as you may think.
I know that! I want to know the truth, the facts, and I am worried about
the Bush administration.
Happy holidays! ;)
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| Yes, well, what a "fierce topic on this board", Martijn!
Try to calm down a little bit?
And...really, I think if you want to you can find plenty of criticism
of America on this board...and others. It's something, as Americans, we
cherish the right to do.
But, honestly...whether you are aware of it or not...I think there is a
GREAT deal that you or another frequent "contributor"(and I use that
term sarcastically) do NOT understand about America...and you are
demonstrating that lack of understanding with your frequent posts which
seem moreethan a little condescending, lecturing...and
"frank"ly...ill-informed.
One thing that I WISH you might consider...is that there is a
substantial difference between whether an individual in this country
agrees with, say our Iraq policy...and how our government interacts in
the world on our behalf.
In other words, while I might agree with those who would suggest that
theeprimary impetus for our "intervention" in Iraq is the control of
oil supplies...
....I think it is VERY important for you to try to consider that there
are American families who are giving up their loved ones...
....because they believe that they are fighting for the FREEDOM of the
peoples of Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are fighting and dying. Perhaps you would like to think about
that...and consider that before lecturing us.
....and...
....it would APPEAR that officials in a great many countries...and
particularly in Europe...MAY have been complicit in STEALING
humanitarian aid from the Iraqi people in conspiracy with the monster
Saddam Hussein.
Perhaps you would like to consider that everything is not so black and
white in terms of morality as you may think.
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
|
Martijn wrote:
> derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> "Hehe =D
> Did you like the post?
> My twin-bro, Martijn-the-angel, is responsable for that".
Yes, actually, I did.
>
> "So, you read LymeNet.org. Do you post there"?
No, I don't post there...and if you saw "Bad LLMD" that is a good
reason why one shouldn't. "Oncebitten" is a VERY samrt lady who mhas
done a LOT of good for others. She has taken a few docs to task...and
for that she gets assaulted. Disgraceful. Lymeland doesn't want the
truth.
> "BTW I'm very calm".
You seem that way...usually...trying to stir up a little trouble? Devil
or angel?
>
monster[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Oh yeah, and wasn't chemical stuff from Germany spread by helicopters
> from france. How "funny" is that? Last week a Netherlander (i think
> "Dutch" is a confusing word) was arrested, because he sold chemical
> stuff to Iraq. And yes, the burning of Muslim schools was sad too. I
> don't like those white power people, who do that. (some school's were
> burned by just some kids, I forgive them, just hope later they will
> realise it was bad).
>
and[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> "I know that! I want to know the truth, the facts, and I am worried
about
> the Bush administration".
So are a great many of us, Martijn.
>
> Happy holidays! ;)
Same to you!!!
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| > We are fighting and dying. Perhaps you would like to think about
> that...and consider that before lecturing us.
You are dying in the process of illegally occupying a country, whilst
murdering tens of thousands of its civillians, using illegal weapons of mass
destruction. You are being killed by the legitimate army and police force
and underground resistance forces of a coutnry that has been attacked
against the will of the United Nations.
It is important too keep that in perspective.
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| Frank:
I might agree with you...as I said...that the overall impetus from the
US government neocon policy-makers was strategic...and oil-oriented...
....but what I am saying is that there are Americans...damn good people
who have died because they believe in their hearts...that they are
fighting for the freedom of other people...the right to live free.
Can you try to understand that?
Can you understand that while the government's motives may be less than
pure...
....the individual who fights and dies might do so with a pure heart and
the highest of intentions?
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| No.
We are fighting for Royal Dutch Shell.
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> No, I don't post there...and if you saw "Bad LLMD" that is a good
> reason why one shouldn't.
Sure I saw the "Bad LLMD" topic. It was the inspiration for the
calm-down-post.
I was amazed how aggressive some people reacted, also from people who
are "believers". You know the praying mantis, that prays before it
strikes deadly?
It irrated me that some people asked for deletion of the topic, "where
are the moderaters", bla bla. Please don't delete it, for God's sake! :@
> You seem that way...usually...trying to stir up a little trouble? Devil
> or angel?
Erm.. Both sometimes. :P ..But I do mean well.
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
> No.
>
> We are fighting for Royal Dutch Shell.
Not ESSO? That contains the letters EO, which is an evangelic
broadcasting in the Netherlands. The other two letters also stand for
something..
Devil Martijn
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| Yes, I agree about the calls for censorship. It's ugly.
So are attempts to censor people off of unmoderated boards with
thinly-veiled threats.
I am sure that you mean well...believe it or not...so do I. I just
don't like to show it.
BTW...OT...
(I was doing some research on a topic I have been studying
lately...about the "Bear people"...Arturus...Arcas...Callisto. The
Phoenicians...of Ursa major and minor...and it said that they believed
that the universe was controlled, in essence, from Mars. God is a
Martian? Where have I heard this before)?
| |
| derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
| "The situation is much worse for the Iraqis and they have no choice".
Yes. And even by conservative US estimates, there are easily now
100,000 Iraqi dead. I disagree, however, that the Iraqis "don't have a
choice."
In Afghanistan, a woman ran for national office recently.
Think about it.
| |
|
| On 17 Dec 2004 13:33:07 -0800, derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com wrote:
>Yes, well, what a "fierce topic on this board", Martijn!
>
>Try to calm down a little bit?
>
>And...really, I think if you want to you can find plenty of criticism
>of America on this board...and others. It's something, as Americans, we
>cherish the right to do.
>
>But, honestly...whether you are aware of it or not...I think there is a
>GREAT deal that you or another frequent "contributor"(and I use that
>term sarcastically) do NOT understand about America...and you are
>demonstrating that lack of understanding with your frequent posts which
>seem moreethan a little condescending, lecturing...and
>"frank"ly...ill-informed.
>
>One thing that I WISH you might consider...is that there is a
>substantial difference between whether an individual in this country
>agrees with, say our Iraq policy...and how our government interacts in
>the world on our behalf.
>
>In other words, while I might agree with those who would suggest that
>theeprimary impetus for our "intervention" in Iraq is the control of
>oil supplies...
>
>...I think it is VERY important for you to try to consider that there
>are American families who are giving up their loved ones...
>
>...because they believe that they are fighting for the FREEDOM of the
>peoples of Afghanistan and Iraq.
>
>We are fighting and dying. Perhaps you would like to think about
>that...and consider that before lecturing us.
>
>...and...
>
>...it would APPEAR that officials in a great many countries...and
>particularly in Europe...MAY have been complicit in STEALING
>humanitarian aid from the Iraqi people in conspiracy with the monster
>Saddam Hussein.
>
>Perhaps you would like to consider that everything is not so black and
>white in terms of morality as you may think.
Nicely put. I knew you lawyers where good for something.
| |
| Greatcod 2004-12-20, 7:12 pm |
|
I remember that in the presidential campaign of 2000, both Bush and
Gore
promised that the American People would liberate the Iraqis from the
terrible rule of the evil dictator, whatever the cost, and establish
democracy there.
The airwaves and newspapers were overwhelmed by the response of people
eager to free Iraqis. Most of us talked of nothing else that year.
Get real, not one person here in 1000 gave a shit about the wellbeing
of
Iraqis: most were not even aware of the consequences of the elder
Bush's
encouragement of the Shite uprising after Gulf WarI, and his failure to
support it.
| |
| Frank de Groot 2004-12-22, 7:09 am |
| "dali" <weeble@wabble.com> wrote in message
news:dph8s0pnpuiu08herm8021tpi4g8o53npc@4ax.com...
>
> Frank, many countries have made the americans pull their bases out. In
> so doing they of course loose a large infusion of cash.In south
Loosing child-rapes in Japan, you mean.
You gotta be kidding.
45,000 US soldiers blowing their salary on beer and whores in a country like
Germany that has 80,000,000 inhabitants and you think those Germans will
notice even a 0.01% drop in whatever?
Stop fooling yourself.
The US occupational powers are not "bringing economic prosperity", they are
there to target Russia with nukes on the territory of their "allies".
> their is a large minority who hates Bush almost as much as you do. He
> will be gone in 4 years.
Bullshit.
Bush lost the election twice, and he grabbed power twice nevertheless.
You think it will suddenly change?
| |
| Martijn 2004-12-22, 7:09 am |
| Martijn wrote:
> American on EuroLyme said:
>
> "I think people need to look at the techniques that Hitler used to sway
> the population and bring many under his control. Much of it parallels
> what is going on right here in the United States."
I hereby take full distance from this quote. I cannot rely on
assessment-capabilities of the writer. About the dangerous article "New
Ideas About The Cause, Spread and Therapy of Lyme Disease" by Dr. James
Howenstine, this person said the following:
"I was so heartened to see this article in The Townsend Letter for
Doctors and Patients. It confirms what I've written about in the past
and know in my heart to be true. Please pass this on to doctors and
anyone afflicted with these chronic illnesses. We desperately need to
spread the word".
Forgive me my rare moment of imprudence, it was way past my bedtime when
I posted that.
|
| |
|
|