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Is there anything to the reflux remedy advertised here on google groups?
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| doctoroe 2006-03-22, 1:31 pm |
| Whenever I search on google about acid reflux and GERD this ad keeps
coming up for a "natural " way to treat acid reflux.
Has anyone here actually tried this, bought the product, or know what
it is? They are charging something like 37 bucks for it and I sure
would like some input from real people before I even consider buying
it.
one of the ads is here:
http://www.refluxremedy.com/?gclid=...CFQM9OAodUR4o-w
Thanks
George Doctoroe
| |
| Howard McCollister 2006-03-22, 1:31 pm |
|
"doctoroe" <doctoroe@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142092858.212026.263550@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Whenever I search on google about acid reflux and GERD this ad keeps
> coming up for a "natural " way to treat acid reflux.
> Has anyone here actually tried this, bought the product, or know what
> it is? They are charging something like 37 bucks for it and I sure
> would like some input from real people before I even consider buying
> it.
> one of the ads is here:
> http://www.refluxremedy.com/?gclid=...CFQM9OAodUR4o-w
> Thanks
> George Doctoroe
No, it's complete bullshit.
GERD is *huge* business for the worldwide pharmaceutical industry,
especially in the US where 65% of the population is obese (BMI greater than
30). And they have *huge* resources for investigating and implementing every
conceivable non-surgical treatment. I can assure you..if there was
*anything* to those silly claims, the drug companies would have been all
over it many years ago.
HMc
| |
|
| doctoroe wrote:
> Whenever I search on google about acid reflux and GERD this ad keeps
> coming up for a "natural " way to treat acid reflux.
> Has anyone here actually tried this, bought the product, or know what
> it is? They are charging something like 37 bucks for it and I sure
> would like some input from real people before I even consider buying
> it.
> one of the ads is here:
> http://www.refluxremedy.com/?gclid=...CFQM9OAodUR4o-w
> Thanks
> George Doctoroe
George...this guy is so full of shit it's unbelievable. It is very
dangerous to believe what you read on the Internet without being an informed
reader. You have to be intelligent enough to know whether the source is
reliable and credible [for instance something published by the NIH would
hopefully be credible - can't promise it though :-)].
Now let me give you a couple of examples that proves the guy is a total
bullshitter and doesn't know what he is talking about.
He say's -
[[After surgery, I couldn't sleep on my right side without bile (bile is
very acidic) building up... and the only way I could get rid of it was by
vomiting.
For almost a year, I had to vomit about three or four times every day. It
was disgusting, and I knew I couldn't go on like this forever - the acid was
killing me!]]
That is bullshit. Bile is basic, not acidic, and has a pH above 7.0 which
is neutral. That is not to say that basic type fluids (eg bile) can't also
do damage to your esophagus (they can be just as harmful - some of the shit
you use to clean your toilet is basic). My point is bile is not acidic it
is basic, even though it can still do harm.
He says -
[[Antacids (such as Pepcid, Zantac, Tagamet, Rolaids, and Tums) only mask
the underlying problem of your heartburn or acid reflux. Most antacids
contain excessive amounts of minerals such as Sodium, Aluminum, Calcium, and
Magnesium. Excessive mineral imbalances can be very harmful, leading to
cancer, hypertension or even Alzheimer's Disease.]]
He is really showing his ignorance here. Pepsid, Zantac and Tagament are H2
blockers and block the production of stomach acid by blocking histamine, and
they are not antacids like Rolaids and Tums which may contain the salts and
metals he mentions. This guy is dangerous and a loose cannon.
I wasn't going to write all this, but it pissed me off so I hope you all be
*very* careful about what you read on the Internet :-) ...Pete
| |
| shopwithcheryl@gmail.com 2006-03-22, 1:31 pm |
| Howard,
Would you say that most GERD can be attributed to obesity then? The
reason I ask is that I have quite a severe case (I wrote about it in
another post a few days ago) and I have already lost 50 pounds as of
today (yay!) but could stand to lose another 50 or maybe more and I'm
so hoping that by losing that weight, I'll be as "cured" as possible
without surgery. Is that likely in your experience (or wishful thinking
on my part)?
Thanks,
Laura
| |
| shopwithcheryl@gmail.com 2006-03-22, 1:31 pm |
| As a followup, Google Groups is driving me crazy. I need to switch back
to a real newsreader! I posted this message from my mom's gmail
account. To respond to me directly, please email me at shopwithlaura at
gmail dot com.
Thanks,
Laura
| |
| Howard McCollister 2006-03-22, 1:31 pm |
|
<shopwithcheryl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142106014.627157.122510@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Howard,
>
> Would you say that most GERD can be attributed to obesity then? The
> reason I ask is that I have quite a severe case (I wrote about it in
> another post a few days ago) and I have already lost 50 pounds as of
> today (yay!) but could stand to lose another 50 or maybe more and I'm
> so hoping that by losing that weight, I'll be as "cured" as possible
> without surgery. Is that likely in your experience (or wishful thinking
> on my part)?
Congratulations on your 50 lb weight loss...that is a very significant
achievement.
GERD is definitely one of the more common problems associated with morbid
obesity. If you were indeed to lose 100 lbs, there is a very good chance
your GERD will go away, or at least decrease in severity. However, morbid
obesity is certainly not the only contributing factor to GERD. I've seen
many, many patients with normal BMIs who have severe GERD, and I've seen
many, many patients whose BMI is over 45, and have none.
Laparoscopic Roux-en-Y gastric bypass is most definitely the preferred
operation over Nissen fundoplication for control of GERD in patients whose
BMI is greater than 35. Many surgeons (myself included) would consider
fundoplication to be contra-indicated in patients who are morbidly obese.
HMc
| |
|
| Thank you!
I think I explained incorrectly--when I said I had a severe case I
meant a severe case of GERD rather than obesity (not that I wasn't or
am not currently obese--just not morbidly so). My BMI was 38 at the
highest point and is now 30.4 I never considered RNY as I knew I could
lose the weight with some serious work (it was gained after two
close-together pregnancies and a few years prior of not enough
exercise). But, I would have thought after losing half of my target, I
would be feeling more relief! Either way, your explanation mirrors that
of my first physician--that it's sometimes quite random who is
afflicted with these things!
My EGD did show inflammation of the stomach and esophagus and my first
barium swallow three months prior to the EGD showed that my stomach
through my esophagus was filled with acid. So, I suppose I'm getting
better, but the chest pain symptom makes it seem much worse than it was
originally.
Oddly enough, my primary symptom now is chest pain (that varies in
location depending on some random factor) and that didn't appear until
after 6 weeks of Nexium/Zantac treatment and a severe sinusitis.
Cardiovascular problems have been ruled out by several doctors as have
lung and gallbladder. So, we're considering anxiety and I'm trying some
medication for that.
Have you ever heard a story like this? Does it sound like I'm on the
right track with the weight loss and anti-anxiety medication or is
there another angle that you'd explore? I've been given the choice of
seeing a new GI or visiting with a General Surgeon in our area--I'm not
sure which route to go or what to be asking now....
Thanks,
Laura
Howard McCollister wrote:
> Laura wrote in message
> news:1142106014.627157.122510@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Congratulations on your 50 lb weight loss...that is a very significant
> achievement.
>
> GERD is definitely one of the more common problems associated with morbid
> obesity. If you were indeed to lose 100 lbs, there is a very good chance
> your GERD will go away, or at least decrease in severity. However, morbid
> obesity is certainly not the only contributing factor to GERD. I've seen
> many, many patients with normal BMIs who have severe GERD, and I've seen
> many, many patients whose BMI is over 45, and have none.
>
> Laparoscopic Roux-en-Y gastric bypass is most definitely the preferred
> operation over Nissen fundoplication for control of GERD in patients whose
> BMI is greater than 35. Many surgeons (myself included) would consider
> fundoplication to be contra-indicated in patients who are morbidly obese.
>
> HMc
| |
| Howard McCollister 2006-03-22, 1:31 pm |
|
"Laura" <shopwithlaura@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142114276.845842.66190@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Thank you!
>
> I think I explained incorrectly--when I said I had a severe case I
> meant a severe case of GERD rather than obesity (not that I wasn't or
> am not currently obese--just not morbidly so). My BMI was 38 at the
> highest point and is now 30.4 I never considered RNY as I knew I could
> lose the weight with some serious work (it was gained after two
> close-together pregnancies and a few years prior of not enough
> exercise). But, I would have thought after losing half of my target, I
> would be feeling more relief! Either way, your explanation mirrors that
> of my first physician--that it's sometimes quite random who is
> afflicted with these things!
>
> My EGD did show inflammation of the stomach and esophagus and my first
> barium swallow three months prior to the EGD showed that my stomach
> through my esophagus was filled with acid. So, I suppose I'm getting
> better, but the chest pain symptom makes it seem much worse than it was
> originally.
>
> Oddly enough, my primary symptom now is chest pain (that varies in
> location depending on some random factor) and that didn't appear until
> after 6 weeks of Nexium/Zantac treatment and a severe sinusitis.
> Cardiovascular problems have been ruled out by several doctors as have
> lung and gallbladder. So, we're considering anxiety and I'm trying some
> medication for that.
>
> Have you ever heard a story like this? Does it sound like I'm on the
> right track with the weight loss and anti-anxiety medication or is
> there another angle that you'd explore? I've been given the choice of
> seeing a new GI or visiting with a General Surgeon in our area--I'm not
> sure which route to go or what to be asking now....
>
In the management of GERD, weight loss toward normalizing BMI is a key
component.
Chest pain is a common symptom of GERD. In some cases it's due to reflux
(either acid or non-acid), and in some cases it's due to an esophageal
motility problem. Chronic reflux can damage the esophagus and make it
contract poorly or in an uncoordinated manner, and that can most definitely
be a significant cause of chest pain. "Heartburn" is the primary complaint
in only about 40% of GERD patients. Chest pain is a not-very-distant second.
Upper GI contrast xrays (barium swallow) is generally a totally pointless
diagnostic test in the evaluation of GERD. As part of the diagnostic workup,
barium swallow is, at best, an extremely blunt diagnostic tool. The concept
of a UGI showing "stomach through esophagus filled with acid" just doesn't
even make sense to me.
In your situation, the obvious (to me) next step is ambulatory pH testing
and esophageal manometry. If you are still having pain or the other symptoms
despite appropriate dose of a PPI like Nexium/Aciphex/Prevacid/whatever,
then multichannel intraluminal impedance testing of your esophagus is likely
to shed more light than standard ambulatory pH testing.
HMc
| |
|
| The funny thing is that the first 6 weeks of treatment on Nexium 40mg
and Zantac 150mg in the morning and another Zantac 150mg in the evening
was going really well and I was feeling fine. Then due to insurance
issues, I had to switch to omeprazole 40mg and things went downhill
including a case of severe sinusitis. Once I got the Nexium back a few
weeks later, I never got things back on track and the chest pains
started.
I tried Protonix 40mg once a day for another three weeks without
significant improvement (maybe not long enough?) and am now trying
Prevacid 30mg once a day. Could it be that I need to up the PPI to
twice a day (one doctor did recommend that) or just stay on a certain
one a bit longer or both?
Or is it just time for more testing?
Thank you so much for your help!
| |
|
| Laura...the PPI's all basically work the same way (that is not to say one
might work better than another for an individual person). However I don't
buy the concept that you may need to be taking them longer than you have to
see if they will help. If they are going to help it should only take a
matter of a few days (I believe most of them will achieve peak performance
in about 4 or 5 days). Look up the package inserts on the Internet (get the
drug company that makes the drug and click on the "full prescribing info").
And I don't understand why zantac seems to work better for you than the
PPI's, since the PPI's block all three acid stimulators in the stomach, but
zantac only blocks histamine (I have explained this in detail in other
threads and don't want to get repetitive - just search messages from "Pete"
if you want).
As far as the anti-anxiety drugs (you mentioned you were taking xanax in
your other post), the benzodiazepines are nasty drugs [xanax (alprazolam),
Ativan(lorazepam), etc], and are not intended to be taken for extended
periods of time since they are highly habit forming and if you take them for
extended periods you need to wean off them or you could get unpleasant
withdrawal symptoms. Do some googling, and ask you doctor how long he/she
plans on having you take them (if its longer than two or three weeks than I
would be concerned). And I seriously doubt your doctor will leave you on
them long term, so that will not solve your GERD problem. If you stay on
them too long, chances are you will build up a tolerance, and need more and
more, and you know the rest.
Hope this helps :-) ...Pete
Laura wrote:
> The funny thing is that the first 6 weeks of treatment on Nexium 40mg
> and Zantac 150mg in the morning and another Zantac 150mg in the
> evening was going really well and I was feeling fine. Then due to
> insurance issues, I had to switch to omeprazole 40mg and things went
> downhill including a case of severe sinusitis. Once I got the Nexium
> back a few weeks later, I never got things back on track and the
> chest pains started.
>
> I tried Protonix 40mg once a day for another three weeks without
> significant improvement (maybe not long enough?) and am now trying
> Prevacid 30mg once a day. Could it be that I need to up the PPI to
> twice a day (one doctor did recommend that) or just stay on a certain
> one a bit longer or both?
>
> Or is it just time for more testing?
>
> Thank you so much for your help!
| |
|
| Hi Pete,
Thanks for the response. I agree about the Zantac--it must just be a
false perception on my part. I have noticed on the days that I take the
PPI twice (once in the morning and once in the evening) that things are
much better although I do get that tired/overmedicated feeling, but
maybe I'll try it anyway for a solid 30 days and see what happens.
I understand that PPIs work in the same way, but my question then is,
let's say it takes 5 days to achieve maximum effectiveness--is that for
each PPI (so you could rotate them in 5 day increments to see which
works better?) or is that for PPIs as a drug class (since I've been on
them fairly consistently since October if they were going to work, they
should have done it by now)?
I totally agree on the Xanax. It was prescribed as a really short term
measure and I was quite leery of it as well due to the potential side
effects. I think he feels like my anxiety exacerbates the GERD and
brings on these phases of really bad times (because there are weeks
where everything feels just fine--no problems at all!). His
recommendation was to try it for 3 or 4 days once a day and after that
I wouldn't likely need it again for a few weeks, and to only use it on
an as needed basis. So, that is my plan
What is your opinion about Carafate? The GI who did my endoscopy had me
discontinue PPIs and H2s and try Carafate 4 times a day. It worked well
for about 5 days and then my symptoms came back. I've not been able to
get in to see him since so my primary doctor suggested I get back to
the PPIs.
Just out of curiousity, are you a doctor or a really experienced
patient? 
Thanks,
Laura
Pete wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Laura...the PPI's all basically work the same way (that is not to say one
> might work better than another for an individual person). However I don't
> buy the concept that you may need to be taking them longer than you have to
> see if they will help. If they are going to help it should only take a
> matter of a few days (I believe most of them will achieve peak performance
> in about 4 or 5 days). Look up the package inserts on the Internet (get the
> drug company that makes the drug and click on the "full prescribing info").
> And I don't understand why zantac seems to work better for you than the
> PPI's, since the PPI's block all three acid stimulators in the stomach, but
> zantac only blocks histamine (I have explained this in detail in other
> threads and don't want to get repetitive - just search messages from "Pete"
> if you want).
>
> As far as the anti-anxiety drugs (you mentioned you were taking xanax in
> your other post), the benzodiazepines are nasty drugs [xanax (alprazolam),
> Ativan(lorazepam), etc], and are not intended to be taken for extended
> periods of time since they are highly habit forming and if you take them for
> extended periods you need to wean off them or you could get unpleasant
> withdrawal symptoms. Do some googling, and ask you doctor how long he/she
> plans on having you take them (if its longer than two or three weeks than I
> would be concerned). And I seriously doubt your doctor will leave you on
> them long term, so that will not solve your GERD problem. If you stay on
> them too long, chances are you will build up a tolerance, and need more and
> more, and you know the rest.
>
> Hope this helps :-) ...Pete
>
> Laura wrote:
| |
| Howard McCollister 2006-03-22, 1:31 pm |
|
"Laura" <shopwithlaura@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142134793.268343.108850@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> What is your opinion about Carafate? The GI who did my endoscopy had me
> discontinue PPIs and H2s and try Carafate 4 times a day. It worked well
> for about 5 days and then my symptoms came back. I've not been able to
> get in to see him since so my primary doctor suggested I get back to
> the PPIs.
>
The function of carafate is to physically coat an inflammed, ulcerated area
and provide a protective barrier. It's not absorbed into the body and
doesn't work systemically. If you don't have an ulcerated esophagus, it's
not going to be a useful treatment.
HMc
| |
|
| Laura wrote:
> Hi Pete,
>
> Thanks for the response. I agree about the Zantac--it must just be a
> false perception on my part. I have noticed on the days that I take
> the PPI twice (once in the morning and once in the evening) that
> things are much better although I do get that tired/overmedicated
> feeling, but maybe I'll try it anyway for a solid 30 days and see
> what happens.
>
> I understand that PPIs work in the same way, but my question then is,
> let's say it takes 5 days to achieve maximum effectiveness--is that
> for each PPI (so you could rotate them in 5 day increments to see
> which works better?) or is that for PPIs as a drug class (since I've
> been on them fairly consistently since October if they were going to
> work, they should have done it by now)?
I am not a doctor, and I would not try to tell you what to do. I only said
they do not take 30 days to work (no way). But logic would indicate that
taking them for 30 days would ensure adequate time for the healing process
to take place (say if you had ulcers or erosions). But they will start to
reduce acid production in a much shorter time than 30 days. Like I said
check the package inserts out, and question your doctor accordingly.
>
> I totally agree on the Xanax. It was prescribed as a really short term
> measure and I was quite leery of it as well due to the potential side
> effects. I think he feels like my anxiety exacerbates the GERD and
> brings on these phases of really bad times (because there are weeks
> where everything feels just fine--no problems at all!). His
> recommendation was to try it for 3 or 4 days once a day and after that
> I wouldn't likely need it again for a few weeks, and to only use it on
> an as needed basis. So, that is my plan
>
> What is your opinion about Carafate? The GI who did my endoscopy had
> me discontinue PPIs and H2s and try Carafate 4 times a day. It worked
> well for about 5 days and then my symptoms came back. I've not been
> able to get in to see him since so my primary doctor suggested I get
> back to the PPIs.
I can tell you my experiences. Carafate (sucralfate) is a protective
coating mechanism for duodenal ulcer disease, and has an off label use for
stomach ulcers also. I believe it also inhibits the digestive action of
pepsin, and can stimulate healing somehow. I have tried sucralfate, the H2
blockers, and the PPI's, as well as OTC antacids going way back, and for me
nothing is as powerful (and lasting) as the PPI's. Carafate did very little
for me. Unfortunately, after taking the PPI's for 8 years (I am on my third
one now - Prilosec), they have caused me to have fundic polyps as a result
of their acid suppression, which is about a 4% incidence, according to the
package inserts.
>
> Just out of curiousity, are you a doctor or a really experienced
> patient?
I would like to think I am a really experienced patient :-) . Been to many
docs (not a lot to show for it), and have more than a few problems. So I
started studying medicine, the human anatomy, and prescription drugs,
shortly after the diagnosis of my sarcoidosis in 1992. Best wishes :-)
....Pete
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Thanks,
> Laura
>
>
>
>
>
> Pete wrote:
| |
|
| Hi Pete,
Just wanted to thank you for the helpful words. I dropped the H2
blocker and have switched to Nexium 40mg twice a day and things seem to
be calming down. Hopefully, I've found the answer for me. And with any
luck, more weight loss will help me reduce the root problem as much as
possible. Time will tell.
Take care,
Laura
| |
|
| Laura wrote:
> Hi Pete,
>
> Just wanted to thank you for the helpful words. I dropped the H2
> blocker and have switched to Nexium 40mg twice a day and things seem
> to be calming down. Hopefully, I've found the answer for me. And with
> any luck, more weight loss will help me reduce the root problem as
> much as possible. Time will tell.
>
> Take care,
> Laura
Laura...At some point I would recommend that you try reducing the dose of
nexium to 40 mg per day (versus bidaily), as an experiment (80 mg of that
crap every day is a hefty dose). If you have a problem you can always
return to the previous dose. You should never take more than you need (I'm
sure your doctor will agree with that). I got by on only 15 mg of prevacid
for many years. Remember these pills can result in fundic polyps like I
explained. And if you read the package inserts, they cause tumors in rats
(but no evidence of tumors in humans reported to date, that I know of).
Prilosec was the forerunner (circa 1986 I believe), followed by prevacid,
and then all the others.
Here's a little trivia for you. Did you know that nexium is the left side
of the optical isomer for prilosec (pharma is "AstraZeneca"). If I tell my
doctors that, they just laugh at me :-) . Best wishes...Pete
P.S. - http://www.nexium-us.com/ - click on the "Nexium Science" box -
there's some neat stuff in there :-) .
| |
|
| I will definitely keep that in mind--thank you. I thought I'd try it
for 30 days and see how it works but maybe I could drop down to 20mg
dose twice a day after a couple of weeks. Is it possible that it's the
24 hour change in the ph of the reflux that's making a difference? If
so, it would make sense to me that the lower dose should work as well.
Fun trivia! My husband got a laugh out of it as well (he's a science
guy too).
| |
|
| Laura wrote:
> I will definitely keep that in mind--thank you. I thought I'd try it
> for 30 days and see how it works but maybe I could drop down to 20mg
> dose twice a day after a couple of weeks. Is it possible that it's the
> 24 hour change in the ph of the reflux that's making a difference? If
> so, it would make sense to me that the lower dose should work as well.
It could be the increase in ph that is helping you feel better - no way of
telling if the lower dose will still help until you try it. If you feel
better for two weeks it sounds reasonable to drop down to 40 mg per day to
see what happens. You mentioned 20 mg bidaily - do you have 20 mg capsules
on hand, or just the 40 mg capsules you have been taking...Pete
>
> Fun trivia! My husband got a laugh out of it as well (he's a science
> guy too).
| |
|
| I don't have the 20 but I'm certain my doctor will give me some samples
to try and see if it works. Seems to be going well so far....
| |
|
| Laura wrote:
> I don't have the 20 but I'm certain my doctor will give me some
> samples to try and see if it works. Seems to be going well so far....
He/she may only have the 40mg samples, but check it out :-) ...Pete
| |
|
| Laura:
Have you looked into St. John's Wort for anxiety? I use it during the
winter for what I think are SAD symptoms, and also for the occassional
anxiety attack, and it seems to help. I experience no side effects,
but then again I'm in the UK. Why is that important? 'Cause the side
effect I know of is that it can make a person photosensitive (sunburn
easily); not an issue here, generally
Rescue Remedy also works well for some people for anxiety. I think it
helps, but I'm not sure as if it's working, it's less effective than
St. John's Wort.
jmc
jmc
| |
|
| Thank you! I will look into it. I haven't taken any more of the Xanax
since those initial 3 or 4 days--I just don't want to get too dependent
on it. The St. John's Wort might be a good idea for times when I need a
little help controlling anxiety.
Take care,
Laura
|
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