Chronic pain Support - Oxycontin or Methadone

Author

Oxycontin or Methadone - Urgent question for friend

seeker

2006-03-23, 6:11 pm

Hi all

I'm asking this question for a friend who does not have internet
access.

She is having foot surgery next month and needs to be on strong pain
relievers. Due to disabilities (incl chronic migraine) and injuries she
already has had experience with many pain killers. However, I am not
sure if she's taken any other opiates previously.

Unfortunately she has been through prescription pain killer addiction
before, as recently as last year (fentanyl) and so is frightened this
will happen again. Her doctor said that the only two things that would
help would be oxy or methadone and that oxy was much more addictive
than methadone. So she chose methadone. She had explained her fears and
history to the doctor and also expressed her wish that there be a plan
in place for her to get off the drug once it's no longer needed.

>From what I have heard, from former heroin (and practically everything
else) addict, that methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin
withdrawal.... which is about the worst thing there is. Methadone
apparently has a really long half-life.

To me it seems that the oxycontin would be much safer. Most of the
danger appears to have it's origin in media hysteria.

This is what she has heard as well. She has several relatives who are
heroin addicts, and others who suffer from alcoholism... which makes
this even more frightening for her. Are there any opinions here on
which is worse or any arternative suggestions.

She already started the methadone last week - the doctor put her on a
4-week plan to gradually work up to a full dose..... but she would be
willing to request a switch if it turns out it was a bad choice...

I have done some research and it seems that the methadone is worse.....
but it is not clear. It seems some places are now offering methadone to
treat oxy addiction.

Would greatly appreciate any opinions, personal experiences or
refernces to med literature or sites of interest.

thank you
seeker

Zombywoof

2006-03-23, 6:11 pm

On 23 Mar 2006 12:49:43 -0800, "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hi all
>
>I'm asking this question for a friend who does not have internet
>access.
>
>She is having foot surgery next month and needs to be on strong pain
>relievers. Due to disabilities (incl chronic migraine) and injuries she
>already has had experience with many pain killers. However, I am not
>sure if she's taken any other opiates previously.
>
>Unfortunately she has been through prescription pain killer addiction
>before, as recently as last year (fentanyl) and so is frightened this
>will happen again. Her doctor said that the only two things that would
>help would be oxy or methadone and that oxy was much more addictive
>than methadone. So she chose methadone. She had explained her fears and
>history to the doctor and also expressed her wish that there be a plan
>in place for her to get off the drug once it's no longer needed.
>
>else) addict, that methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin
>withdrawal.... which is about the worst thing there is. Methadone
>apparently has a really long half-life.
>
>To me it seems that the oxycontin would be much safer. Most of the
>danger appears to have it's origin in media hysteria.
>
>This is what she has heard as well. She has several relatives who are
>heroin addicts, and others who suffer from alcoholism... which makes
>this even more frightening for her. Are there any opinions here on
>which is worse or any arternative suggestions.
>
>She already started the methadone last week - the doctor put her on a
>4-week plan to gradually work up to a full dose..... but she would be
>willing to request a switch if it turns out it was a bad choice...
>
>I have done some research and it seems that the methadone is worse.....
>but it is not clear. It seems some places are now offering methadone to
>treat oxy addiction.
>
>Would greatly appreciate any opinions, personal experiences or
>refernces to med literature or sites of interest.
>
>thank you
>seeker
>
Yes withdrawal from Methadone is going to be a real XXXXX. Quite
possibly worse then sucking up the pain from the surgery. I've known
junkies that have gone off Methadone and back to smack cause the smack
is/was easier to kick then the Methadone.
--

December 9, 2005 (CNN) While interviewing an anonymous
US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
in Afghanistan.

The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

seeker

2006-03-23, 6:11 pm

Zombywoof wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2006 12:49:43 -0800, "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes withdrawal from Methadone is going to be a real XXXXX. Quite
> possibly worse then sucking up the pain from the surgery. I've known
> junkies that have gone off Methadone and back to smack cause the smack
> is/was easier to kick then the Methadone.
> --
>
> December 9, 2005 (CNN) While interviewing an anonymous
> US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
> the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
> in Afghanistan.
>
> The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

zomby - thx for your comments...... do you know how it compares to
withdrawal from the oxycontin?

seeker

OldGoat

2006-03-24, 1:13 am

Dear Seeker,

I hear that same thing all the time as well, but I honestly think it's a
state of misinformation. Oxy contin was originally supposed to be a12 hour
medication. It's weak at making it 8 hours. Methadone (I'll abbreviate to
done, if that's ok) done lasts a long long time. I mean skipping days with
no withdrawals. So while it may take longer to come along and is cleaned out
slower by the liver, it may take a couple weeks, versus OxyC and it's 8 hour
fuse. You have to remember a couple things with information like this. The
difference for using against pain and for pleasure is huge. And a great deal
of the horrors of the methadone withdrawal comes from addicts, not pain
folk, so it could make a huge difference in perception. I was just about
complete with oxycontin withdrawal in four days. I was just at the point
where I could keep food down and in and getting an appetite back. I was
weak, dehydrated,but one more day and a long shower and I would have been
finito. Of course the pain came back at full force reminding me what an XXX
I was thinking I could stick it out for a couple days and what hell really
was like. It reminded me of why so many of use choose to die rather than
"tough it out".
Methadone still may have been a better choice just for the simply fact they
have so much experience at gradual reduction and weaning off, it's a better
choice for not jerking the doc around either. At week "X", "Ymg's" should be
a suitable dose. That kind of thing.
If you friend does exactly what the doctor says (provided he's no quack) you
friend should not have to worry about withdrawal. A nice unhurried decrease
in dose (not whacking it in half everyday) should do just fine. It's these
quack "addiction specialists" that do just that, who are responsible for
most failures.
I wish you both the best of luck. Come on back and let us know how it goes.

Take Care--og

"seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143146983.146539.296740@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all
>
> I'm asking this question for a friend who does not have internet
> access.
>
> She is having foot surgery next month and needs to be on strong pain
> relievers. Due to disabilities (incl chronic migraine) and injuries she
> already has had experience with many pain killers. However, I am not
> sure if she's taken any other opiates previously.
>
> Unfortunately she has been through prescription pain killer addiction
> before, as recently as last year (fentanyl) and so is frightened this
> will happen again. Her doctor said that the only two things that would
> help would be oxy or methadone and that oxy was much more addictive
> than methadone. So she chose methadone. She had explained her fears and
> history to the doctor and also expressed her wish that there be a plan
> in place for her to get off the drug once it's no longer needed.
>
> else) addict, that methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin
> withdrawal.... which is about the worst thing there is. Methadone
> apparently has a really long half-life.
>
> To me it seems that the oxycontin would be much safer. Most of the
> danger appears to have it's origin in media hysteria.
>
> This is what she has heard as well. She has several relatives who are
> heroin addicts, and others who suffer from alcoholism... which makes
> this even more frightening for her. Are there any opinions here on
> which is worse or any arternative suggestions.
>
> She already started the methadone last week - the doctor put her on a
> 4-week plan to gradually work up to a full dose..... but she would be
> willing to request a switch if it turns out it was a bad choice...
>
> I have done some research and it seems that the methadone is worse.....
> but it is not clear. It seems some places are now offering methadone to
> treat oxy addiction.
>
> Would greatly appreciate any opinions, personal experiences or
> refernces to med literature or sites of interest.
>
> thank you
> seeker
>

Zombywoof

2006-03-24, 1:14 am

On 23 Mar 2006 14:24:52 -0800, "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Zombywoof wrote:
>
>zomby - thx for your comments...... do you know how it compares to
>withdrawal from the oxycontin?
>
Since I haven't withdrawn from both, but did in fact start a
withdrawal from Oxycontin I can only give you my impression. If it
had not been for a return of the pain from the condition for which I
was taking the Oxycontin I don't think it would have been that big of
a deal for me, but I also have no prior addiction issues other then
tobacco. I started with a slow taper and wasn't having any issues
other then some mild anxiety until my pain levels shot back up which
caused me to stop at about 50% of my previous dosages. Since the
condition causing the pain had not been "cured" this isn't all that
surprising.

While the large majority of patients taking opiates for a medical
condition will develop a certain dependency on the drug, the
psychological implications are not usually as great as with those who
are recreational users. Normally a slow decrease in the medication,
i.e. a taper, should bring no major ill effects to the medical opiate
patient.

Now all of that being said, unfortunately your friends previous & very
recent addiction issues throws a completely different set of variable
into the equation. I really do think a lot of it is going to depend
on how strong her will to stay sober is. Since she has relapsed as
early as a year ago that is going to be a tough call. I know how the
ciggies call out to me at night so I can't imagine how it is going to
be for a former Opiate addict. I suspect she will need a really good
support system around her when the time comes.

--

"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

froganon@gmail.com

2006-03-24, 1:14 am

Zombywoof wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2006 14:24:52 -0800, "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Since I haven't withdrawn from both, but did in fact start a
> withdrawal from Oxycontin I can only give you my impression. If it
> had not been for a return of the pain from the condition for which I
> was taking the Oxycontin I don't think it would have been that big of
> a deal for me, but I also have no prior addiction issues other then
> tobacco. I started with a slow taper and wasn't having any issues
> other then some mild anxiety until my pain levels shot back up which
> caused me to stop at about 50% of my previous dosages. Since the
> condition causing the pain had not been "cured" this isn't all that
> surprising.
>
> While the large majority of patients taking opiates for a medical
> condition will develop a certain dependency on the drug, the
> psychological implications are not usually as great as with those who
> are recreational users. Normally a slow decrease in the medication,
> i.e. a taper, should bring no major ill effects to the medical opiate
> patient.
>
> Now all of that being said, unfortunately your friends previous & very
> recent addiction issues throws a completely different set of variable
> into the equation. I really do think a lot of it is going to depend
> on how strong her will to stay sober is. Since she has relapsed as
> early as a year ago that is going to be a tough call. I know how the
> ciggies call out to me at night so I can't imagine how it is going to
> be for a former Opiate addict. I suspect she will need a really good
> support system around her when the time comes.
>
>
> --
>
> "Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
> Moderation is for monks."
>
> ZombyWoof
> (take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

thanks - the reactions of medical vs recreational is a distinction i
had not thought of before your post and the one from oldgoat

would like to clarify that the recent addiction was not
recreational.... none have been.... she was injured in a car accident
and prescribed a medication that became addictive.... under doctor's
care and dosaging..... so that made the recovery all the more difficult

so basically sounds as if saying the meth is going to be (perhaps) more
effective in reducing pain etc but the oxy is much easier to stop
taking (except the pain returns faster)....... i guess though since
this foot injury is supposed to be corrected with this surgery.... the
painshould decrease so hopefully there would not be a return to the
same pain level once off the medication

as i write that it occurred to me that maybe methadone is better for
more long term pain problems that may even increase in severity? and
oxycontin might be more preferable for a short term episode/need like
this? i.e. a faster withdrawal might be best coupled with a return to a
lower pain level?

hmmm does that sound correct?

froganon@gmail.com

2006-03-24, 1:14 am

Hi OG

thx so much for your msg..... please see my response to zomby.....
which was kinda response to both messages

thanks for clarifying that - this is good information to pass on so
that she can decide what she wants to do

i am thinking oxycontin maybe should have been preferable in this case
given that only short term relief is needed.... the pain should be
reduced once she has recovered from the surgery.... hmmm

thx again
seeker

OldGoat wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Dear Seeker,
>
> I hear that same thing all the time as well, but I honestly think it's a
> state of misinformation. Oxy contin was originally supposed to be a12 hour
> medication. It's weak at making it 8 hours. Methadone (I'll abbreviate to
> done, if that's ok) done lasts a long long time. I mean skipping days with
> no withdrawals. So while it may take longer to come along and is cleaned out
> slower by the liver, it may take a couple weeks, versus OxyC and it's 8 hour
> fuse. You have to remember a couple things with information like this. The
> difference for using against pain and for pleasure is huge. And a great deal
> of the horrors of the methadone withdrawal comes from addicts, not pain
> folk, so it could make a huge difference in perception. I was just about
> complete with oxycontin withdrawal in four days. I was just at the point
> where I could keep food down and in and getting an appetite back. I was
> weak, dehydrated,but one more day and a long shower and I would have been
> finito. Of course the pain came back at full force reminding me what an XXX
> I was thinking I could stick it out for a couple days and what hell really
> was like. It reminded me of why so many of use choose to die rather than
> "tough it out".
> Methadone still may have been a better choice just for the simply fact they
> have so much experience at gradual reduction and weaning off, it's a better
> choice for not jerking the doc around either. At week "X", "Ymg's" should be
> a suitable dose. That kind of thing.
> If you friend does exactly what the doctor says (provided he's no quack) you
> friend should not have to worry about withdrawal. A nice unhurried decrease
> in dose (not whacking it in half everyday) should do just fine. It's these
> quack "addiction specialists" that do just that, who are responsible for
> most failures.
> I wish you both the best of luck. Come on back and let us know how it goes.
>
> Take Care--og
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1143146983.146539.296740@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Zombywoof

2006-03-24, 11:13 am

On 23 Mar 2006 22:30:11 -0800, froganon@gmail.com wrote:

>Zombywoof wrote:
>
>thanks - the reactions of medical vs recreational is a distinction i
>had not thought of before your post and the one from oldgoat
>
>would like to clarify that the recent addiction was not
>recreational.... none have been.... she was injured in a car accident
>and prescribed a medication that became addictive.... under doctor's
>care and dosaging..... so that made the recovery all the more difficult
>
>so basically sounds as if saying the meth is going to be (perhaps) more
>effective in reducing pain etc but the oxy is much easier to stop
>taking (except the pain returns faster)....... i guess though since
>this foot injury is supposed to be corrected with this surgery.... the
>painshould decrease so hopefully there would not be a return to the
>same pain level once off the medication
>
>as i write that it occurred to me that maybe methadone is better for
>more long term pain problems that may even increase in severity? and
>oxycontin might be more preferable for a short term episode/need like
>this? i.e. a faster withdrawal might be best coupled with a return to a
>lower pain level?
>
>hmmm does that sound correct?
>
Again, understanding that none of us are bonafide MD's. That our only
practicing medical community member is out nursing her husband who
just underwent colon surgery and would be a better source then us
(maybe). I would have to in a long winded way say; Yes, yes you
summed it up quite nicely.

While both drugs are designed for chronic longer term pain, I would
say that the Methadone is a better choice for the longer term and with
a pain that might escalate. In your friends case I wonder if either
are appropriate as the issue is more short-term acute in nature then
long-term chronic. However, as I said, none of us are MD's or even
play one on TV.
--

"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

medusa

2006-03-24, 11:13 am

>From all I have read ..it would be that methadone is worse to detox
from....I myself have used it but since I switched back to oxy from it
I had no problems. I used it about 2 weeks and frankly couldn't stop
yawning. In retrospect that probably was a red flag waving that that
was not the med for me and dangerous as it showed my body was
definitely havoing problems getting enough oxygen. I still take oxy
and that is where i have been for years. Of course detoxing from that
if you ever do will have its own trials and tribulations but if you
need pain meds ita part of the beast. There are some aids that are
better than what is standardly offered to help with that.
since we are the ones who suffere from bad decisions the drs make...we
should bear most of the responsability to be as proactive a client as
possible. Personally i'd stay with the oxy.....

medusa

> else) addict, that methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin
> withdrawal.... which is about the worst thing there is. Methadone
> apparently has a really long half-life.

seeker

2006-03-24, 11:13 am

reposting reply that was prev deleted

Zombywoof wrote:
- Show quoted text -
> On 23 Mar 2006 14:24:52 -0800, "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Since I haven't withdrawn from both, but did in fact start a
> withdrawal from Oxycontin I can only give you my impression. If it
> had not been for a return of the pain from the condition for which I
> was taking the Oxycontin I don't think it would have been that big of
> a deal for me, but I also have no prior addiction issues other then
> tobacco. I started with a slow taper and wasn't having any issues
> other then some mild anxiety until my pain levels shot back up which
> caused me to stop at about 50% of my previous dosages. Since the
> condition causing the pain had not been "cured" this isn't all that
> surprising.
>
> While the large majority of patients taking opiates for a medical
> condition will develop a certain dependency on the drug, the
> psychological implications are not usually as great as with those who
> are recreational users. Normally a slow decrease in the medication,
> i.e. a taper, should bring no major ill effects to the medical opiate
> patient.
>
> Now all of that being said, unfortunately your friends previous & very
> recent addiction issues throws a completely different set of variable
> into the equation. I really do think a lot of it is going to depend
> on how strong her will to stay sober is. Since she has relapsed as
> early as a year ago that is going to be a tough call. I know how the
> ciggies call out to me at night so I can't imagine how it is going to
> be for a former Opiate addict. I suspect she will need a really good
> support system around her when the time comes.
>
>
> --
>
> "Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
> Moderation is for monks."
>
> ZombyWoof
> (take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

thanks - the reactions of medical vs recreational is a distinction i
had not thought of before your post and the one from oldgoat

would like to clarify that the recent addiction was not
recreational.... none have been.... she was injured in a car accident
and prescribed a medication that became addictive.... under doctor's
care and dosaging..... so that made the recovery all the more difficult

so basically sounds as if saying the meth is going to be (perhaps) more
effective in reducing pain etc but the oxy is much easier to stop
taking (except the pain returns faster)....... i guess though since
this foot injury is supposed to be corrected with this surgery.... the
painshould decrease so hopefully there would not be a return to the
same pain level once off the medication

as i write that it occurred to me that maybe methadone is better for
more long term pain problems that may even increase in severity? and
oxycontin might be more preferable for a short term episode/need like
this? i.e. a faster withdrawal might be best coupled with a return to a
lower pain level?

hmmm does that sound correct?

seeker

2006-03-24, 11:13 am

reposting deleted reply

Hi OG

thx so much for your msg..... please see my response to zomby.....
which was kinda response to both messages

thanks for clarifying that - this is good information to pass on so
that she can decide what she wants to do

i am thinking oxycontin maybe should have been preferable in this case
given that only short term relief is needed.... the pain should be
reduced once she has recovered from the surgery.... hmmm

thx again
seeker

OldGoat wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Dear Seeker,
>
> I hear that same thing all the time as well, but I honestly think it's a
> state of misinformation. Oxy contin was originally supposed to be a12 hour
> medication. It's weak at making it 8 hours. Methadone (I'll abbreviate to
> done, if that's ok) done lasts a long long time. I mean skipping days with
> no withdrawals. So while it may take longer to come along and is cleaned out
> slower by the liver, it may take a couple weeks, versus OxyC and it's 8 hour
> fuse. You have to remember a couple things with information like this. The
> difference for using against pain and for pleasure is huge. And a great deal
> of the horrors of the methadone withdrawal comes from addicts, not pain
> folk, so it could make a huge difference in perception. I was just about
> complete with oxycontin withdrawal in four days. I was just at the point
> where I could keep food down and in and getting an appetite back. I was
> weak, dehydrated,but one more day and a long shower and I would have been
> finito. Of course the pain came back at full force reminding me what an XXX
> I was thinking I could stick it out for a couple days and what hell really
> was like. It reminded me of why so many of use choose to die rather than
> "tough it out".
> Methadone still may have been a better choice just for the simply fact they
> have so much experience at gradual reduction and weaning off, it's a better
> choice for not jerking the doc around either. At week "X", "Ymg's" should be
> a suitable dose. That kind of thing.
> If you friend does exactly what the doctor says (provided he's no quack) you
> friend should not have to worry about withdrawal. A nice unhurried decrease
> in dose (not whacking it in half everyday) should do just fine. It's these
> quack "addiction specialists" that do just that, who are responsible for
> most failures.
> I wish you both the best of luck. Come on back and let us know how it goes.
>
> Take Care--og
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1143146983.146539.296740@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

seeker

2006-03-24, 11:13 am

Zombywoof wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2006 22:30:11 -0800, froganon@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Again, understanding that none of us are bonafide MD's. That our only
> practicing medical community member is out nursing her husband who
> just underwent colon surgery and would be a better source then us
> (maybe). I would have to in a long winded way say; Yes, yes you
> summed it up quite nicely.
>
> While both drugs are designed for chronic longer term pain, I would
> say that the Methadone is a better choice for the longer term and with
> a pain that might escalate. In your friends case I wonder if either
> are appropriate as the issue is more short-term acute in nature then
> long-term chronic. However, as I said, none of us are MD's or even
> play one on TV.
> --
>
> "Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
> Moderation is for monks."
>
> ZombyWoof
> (take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Thanks Zomby - yes i know people aren't md's but, as you probably know,
md's are often not that well informed anyway
i was just surprised at the way this doc characterized oxyc.... great
oversimplification
:o)
s

Zombywoof

2006-03-24, 1:14 pm

On 24 Mar 2006 07:30:51 -0800, "seeker" <butterflyyear@gmail.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>
>Thanks Zomby - yes i know people aren't md's but, as you probably know,
>md's are often not that well informed anyway
>i was just surprised at the way this doc characterized oxyc.... great
>oversimplification
>:o)
>s
>
Based only on my experience most Dr's seem to over simplify there
answers as us mere uneducated plebs couldn't possibly understand the
complexities of a more refined answer. i.e. we be the stupid folk to
them.
--

"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

seeker

2006-03-24, 6:12 pm

thanks medusa
that was very helpful
seeker

medusa wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> from....I myself have used it but since I switched back to oxy from it
> I had no problems. I used it about 2 weeks and frankly couldn't stop
> yawning. In retrospect that probably was a red flag waving that that
> was not the med for me and dangerous as it showed my body was
> definitely havoing problems getting enough oxygen. I still take oxy
> and that is where i have been for years. Of course detoxing from that
> if you ever do will have its own trials and tribulations but if you
> need pain meds ita part of the beast. There are some aids that are
> better than what is standardly offered to help with that.
> since we are the ones who suffere from bad decisions the drs make...we
> should bear most of the responsability to be as proactive a client as
> possible. Personally i'd stay with the oxy.....
>
>
> medusa
>
>
>
>

nobody@junk.min.net

2006-03-24, 6:12 pm

Methadone requires a long taper period when you stop it - longer than
other narcotics because it has a long half life.

Alan

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medusa

2006-03-25, 11:11 am

seeker:

Frankly I am worried of your friend's treatment....usually the only
kind of systemic situation that causes this kind of unrelently pain is
advanced cancers or maladies that are of neurological origin. You
mentioned she is going to have foot surgery..nothing more. can you
email me offline for fiuther explanations? I fear that advancing her
methadone might be perilous if she has not noted any "kick in" at the
current administration.YOu neglect to mention her age or any other
health pertinents.

medusa

seeker wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I'm asking this question for a friend who does not have internet
> access.
>
> She is having foot surgery next month and needs to be on strong pain
> relievers. Due to disabilities (incl chronic migraine) and injuries she
> already has had experience with many pain killers. However, I am not
> sure if she's taken any other opiates previously.
>
> Unfortunately she has been through prescription pain killer addiction
> before, as recently as last year (fentanyl) and so is frightened this
> will happen again. Her doctor said that the only two things that would
> help would be oxy or methadone and that oxy was much more addictive
> than methadone. So she chose methadone. She had explained her fears and
> history to the doctor and also expressed her wish that there be a plan
> in place for her to get off the drug once it's no longer needed.
>
> else) addict, that methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin
> withdrawal.... which is about the worst thing there is. Methadone
> apparently has a really long half-life.
>
> To me it seems that the oxycontin would be much safer. Most of the
> danger appears to have it's origin in media hysteria.
>
> This is what she has heard as well. She has several relatives who are
> heroin addicts, and others who suffer from alcoholism... which makes
> this even more frightening for her. Are there any opinions here on
> which is worse or any arternative suggestions.
>
> She already started the methadone last week - the doctor put her on a
> 4-week plan to gradually work up to a full dose..... but she would be
> willing to request a switch if it turns out it was a bad choice...
>
> I have done some research and it seems that the methadone is worse.....
> but it is not clear. It seems some places are now offering methadone to
> treat oxy addiction.
>
> Would greatly appreciate any opinions, personal experiences or
> refernces to med literature or sites of interest.
>
> thank you
> seeker

seeker

2006-03-25, 1:08 pm

hi medusa
thx for expressing your concern
she has suffered most of her life from debilitating chronic
migraines.... so hopefully that answers the nuerological concerns -
i.e. yes
her migraines are much better lately because of a new medication she's
on - i don't rememer what it is
i am worried about her treatment - and so is she, obviously, since she
asked me to get more info
she is in her 50s
any
seeker

medusa wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> seeker:
>
> Frankly I am worried of your friend's treatment....usually the only
> kind of systemic situation that causes this kind of unrelently pain is
> advanced cancers or maladies that are of neurological origin. You
> mentioned she is going to have foot surgery..nothing more. can you
> email me offline for fiuther explanations? I fear that advancing her
> methadone might be perilous if she has not noted any "kick in" at the
> current administration.YOu neglect to mention her age or any other
> health pertinents.
>
> medusa
>
>
>
>
> seeker wrote:

Zombywoof

2006-03-26, 12:18 am

On 25 Mar 2006 08:11:42 -0800, "medusa" <medusa569@verizon.net> wrote:

>seeker:
>
>Frankly I am worried of your friend's treatment....usually the only
>kind of systemic situation that causes this kind of unrelently pain is
>advanced cancers or maladies that are of neurological origin. You
>mentioned she is going to have foot surgery..nothing more. can you
>email me offline for fiuther explanations? I fear that advancing her
>methadone might be perilous if she has not noted any "kick in" at the
>current administration.YOu neglect to mention her age or any other
>health pertinents.
>
>medusa
>
I think/suspect (not know) that her friend has been expecting to
experience a 'Buzz' like she used to from other Opiate based
medications, especially since she isn't Opiate naive. Since Methadone
doesn't produce one, she thinks it isn't working.

Her friend has also stated that she has continued to walk about freely
on her injured foot, which of course my be simply aggravating whatever
injury she has and overpowering any affect the Methadone maybe having.

--

"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Wasabisho

2006-04-22, 6:07 pm

seeker wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I'm asking this question for a friend who does not have internet
> access.

she could try an internet cafe....might be more direct than having to
relay through you.

> She is having foot surgery next month and needs to be on strong pain
> relievers.

OK...which is it? foot surgery? need to be on strong...?let's read on
then.

> Due to disabilities (incl chronic migraine) and injuries she
> already has had experience with many pain killers.

like what?
>However, I am not
> sure if she's taken any other opiates previously.

huh?

> Unfortunately she has been through prescription pain killer addiction
> before, as recently as last year (fentanyl) and so is frightened this
> will happen again.
fentanyl is an opiate. so that answers your previous question, yes, she
has taken opiates previously.

>Her doctor said that the only two things that would
> help would be oxy or methadone and that oxy was much more addictive
> than methadone.

I just find that hard to believe. what surgeon in his right mind would
say that only oxy or methadone will help. and you even underscored the
silliness of that yourself by going on to say "oxy was much more
addictive..." I know your talking about Oxycontin and not oxycodone
because your comparing it to another "permanent" type 24 hour , namely
methadone. so your saying the doctor is telling you that ONLY Oxycontin
or Methadone will be necessary...thank you very much?...I need a big
glass of water to swallow that one.!

> So she chose methadone. She had explained her fears and
> history to the doctor and also expressed her wish that there be a plan
> in place for her to get off the drug once it's no longer needed.

once it's no longer needed? ya see...that's the rub that's been
bothering me ( scratches his head, like Leutiennant Colombo ) . So
now the doctor has by implication made it known that he was prescribing
long term drugs.. for a short duration case, becuz now your asking him
to provide a plan to addict and then withdraw somebody? Again,
unbelievable, daling.
>
> else) addict, that methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin
> withdrawal.... which is about the worst thing there is. Methadone
> apparently has a really long half-life.

ok, now that I have totally discredited your entire story up to this
point, you finally start to get down to your real story....yawn.

> To me it seems that the oxycontin would be much safer. Most of the
> danger appears to have it's origin in media hysteria.
>
> This is what she has heard as well. She has several relatives who are
> heroin addicts, and others who suffer from alcoholism... which makes
> this even more frightening for her. Are there any opinions here on
> which is worse or any arternative suggestions.
>
> She already started the methadone last week - the doctor put her on a
> 4-week plan to gradually work up to a full dose..... but she would be
> willing to request a switch if it turns out it was a bad choice...

so she's a junkie and is now started at methadone to treat the narcotic
addiction. Well...in my opinion ...The doc would not allow her under
these condition to use oxycontin. so the question for your/her
situation is really mute. you clearly state above she has been addicted
and one of her biggest fears -of using oxycontin?- is that she will go
back (to abusing!!) ( note the words in bracket are my words that I am
interjecting to elucidate this persons words ).

>
> I have done some research and it seems that the methadone is worse.....
> but it is not clear. It seems some places are now offering methadone to
> treat oxy addiction.

see...I knew that was swimming around in your brain...the operative
words being "offering methadone to TREAT OXY addiction." so there you
go ...just answered your own question lovey.
>
> Would greatly appreciate any opinions, personal experiences or
> refernces to med literature or sites of interest.

so that was a nice little exercise wasn't it...hope everyone had fun
tonite. so let's get a little squish and I'll give ya a bit of advice.
forgit the oxy...just take each day one at a time and maybe we'll talk
some more =..maybe you'll tell me i'm full of bs, or maybe you'll gaze
into the stars and say ..who are you? I'm just a man and I hope your a
woman.?..lol. well, with all respect I think your making a valiant
effort to help your friend and if you just tell her to stick with a
tried and true program for recovering addicts that will help her to keep
her nose clean and walk a straight and narrow path everyday, beczu if
she strays from it..and falls off there may be no finding her way back.
Also if this story was straight up...then, I'd say find another doc,
or get a few professional opinions before agreeing to get prescribed
oxycontin for a short term problem..ie "foot surgery". I'm reasonably
certain most if not all doctors would sure prescribe only tylenol or
advil etc..non narcotic for pain due to surgery.

> thank you
> seeker
>