Chronic pain Support - Efficacy of Witch Hazel water astringent (Hamamelis virginiana)

Author

Efficacy of Witch Hazel water astringent (Hamamelis virginiana)

Chris Kelly

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

I'm trying to find scientific evidence whether Witch Hazel is an effective
treatment for hemorrhoids or if it's merely a quaint nostrum remedium.

Googling for "Witch Hazel efficacy" reveals an amazingly confusing array of
patent medicine websites (many selling the brew purporting to help
alleviate the pain of hemorrhoids) and encyclopedic references (e.g.,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_...28astringent%29 ) yet I can not
find any US GOVERNMENT or SCIENTIFIC quote for the true efficacy of Witch
Hazel for the treatment of hemorrhoids (or anything else, for that matter).

Even a search on the US Pharmacopeia ( http://www.usp.org ) for Hamamelis
virginiana netted a surprising lack of information about this concoction.

Of course, many pseudo-scientific websites (hundreds it seems) boldly state
the H. virginiana based astringent is effective for the treatment of
hemorrhoids (e.g., http://www.paghat.com/witchhazelmedicinal.html ) but
that doesn't make it scientifically proven.

About the closest I can find to a reliable government or scientific source
is this short quote from http://www.herbdatanz.com/nf_usd_a-d.htm stating:
AQUA HAMAMELIDIS; N.F
Hamamelis Water [Aq. Hamam.] Witch Hazel Water.
This is a popular, but useless, embrocation made by distillation of
Hamamelis twigs It contains a trace of volatile oil but no therapeutically
active substance; even the alcohol present is in too small a proportion to
exert any beneficial action.

The problem is this is the ONLY government or scientific source I could
find that discussed the efficacy of Witch Hazel water (Hamamelis
virginiana) and it did not discuss hemorrhoids in particular, yet, I can
find thousands of quotes from the popular websites stating it is effective.

My question:
Do you know of any scientific evidence reporting the efficacy of witch
hazel for the treatment of hemorrhoids?

Chris

ZombyWoof

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:29:42 GMT, Chris Kelly
<KellyGirlAndMom@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to find scientific evidence whether Witch Hazel is an effective
>treatment for hemorrhoids or if it's merely a quaint nostrum remedium.
>
>Googling for "Witch Hazel efficacy" reveals an amazingly confusing array of
>patent medicine websites (many selling the brew purporting to help
>alleviate the pain of hemorrhoids) and encyclopedic references (e.g.,
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_...28astringent%29 ) yet I can not
>find any US GOVERNMENT or SCIENTIFIC quote for the true efficacy of Witch
>Hazel for the treatment of hemorrhoids (or anything else, for that matter).
>
>Even a search on the US Pharmacopeia ( http://www.usp.org ) for Hamamelis
>virginiana netted a surprising lack of information about this concoction.
>
>Of course, many pseudo-scientific websites (hundreds it seems) boldly state
>the H. virginiana based astringent is effective for the treatment of
>hemorrhoids (e.g., http://www.paghat.com/witchhazelmedicinal.html ) but
>that doesn't make it scientifically proven.
>
>About the closest I can find to a reliable government or scientific source
>is this short quote from http://www.herbdatanz.com/nf_usd_a-d.htm stating:
> AQUA HAMAMELIDIS; N.F
> Hamamelis Water [Aq. Hamam.] Witch Hazel Water.
> This is a popular, but useless, embrocation made by distillation of
> Hamamelis twigs It contains a trace of volatile oil but no therapeutically
> active substance; even the alcohol present is in too small a proportion to
> exert any beneficial action.
>
>The problem is this is the ONLY government or scientific source I could
>find that discussed the efficacy of Witch Hazel water (Hamamelis
>virginiana) and it did not discuss hemorrhoids in particular, yet, I can
>find thousands of quotes from the popular websites stating it is effective.
>
>My question:
>Do you know of any scientific evidence reporting the efficacy of witch
>hazel for the treatment of hemorrhoids?
>
>Chris
>
Sorry I don't know of any scientific reports off the top of my head,
but I sure as hell have plenty of anecdotal evidence that it helps.
--
Zombywoof

Si vis Pacem, Para bellum

OldGoat

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

Dear Chris,

Witch Hazel is indeed Da Bomb used against hemorrhoids, this is first hand
knowledge and is so effective there's no study required. Apply to a cotton
ball or gauze pad, and leave in place (no stuffing, as there are no nerves
that high up) and within 5 minutes or so you will find a minor miracle has
occurred, pain and itching will have almost disappeared and swollen tissues
will begin to shrink. Keep it in place as long as possible, changing as
needed. Again, do not go stuffing anything way up inside, you don't need the
added complication of removal which should occur without much help, but is
not an always or a given and you don't need complications. Use a bigger wad
of cotton or gauze if needed. It will still take a few days to calm things
down and bleeding may still occur, but provided the blood is the bright red
variety and it does stop shortly after a movement (the witch hazel can also
be used to clean things up) you're ok. If the blood is dark, hit 911 and the
ER to get a better look at what could be something more serious.
A word about surgeries - external hemorrhoids are a fairly simple affair,
entailing a local, like Novocain at the dentists, and a quick
snip-literally. A few days of minor, local soreness, and you are done. They
will normally put a little gauze in as packing, which you should remove a
couple hours later or in a sitz bath (just enough warm water in a tub to
"cover" the general area), will help and reduce any bleeding that may still
be going on.
Hemorrhoids that are further up often bleed but do not hurt as most of the
nerves just do not go up that high and being just a weak spot in a vein, are
often tied off tightly with rubber bands where they will just die from lack
of blood flow to the area and the tissue will come out in its own good time.
Getting access to these is another story all together, and even though is
normally done as out patient, is often one of the most painful surgeries one
can have. You are much better off keeping things clean with the witch hazel,
using a stool softener, and ultimately adding fiber to your diet.
I'm sorry I can't give you any study or site any statements from official
sources, but seeing is believing and if this is more than a school project
or paper and are asking for more "personal" reasons, stop the torture and
find out yourself. Keep the expensive ointments, that 75 cent bottle is
worth it's weight in gold.
People often snicker and joke about hemorrhoids, but anyone that's ever had
them knows there is nothing funny about them, everyone get them to one
extent or another eventually. I've seen the roughest toughest most macho
guys you would ever see, brought to tears from these things. A bottle of
witch hazel a couple cotton balls and 10 minutes later, and they were back
to themselves. Don't suffer, it does work.
Feel free you email me if you're uncomfortable discussing this, if I can
help, you've got it.

Take Care--og

"Chris Kelly" <KellyGirlAndMom@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1w3l6s7p5nqlc.yyvqx74qsxi.dlg@40tude.net...
> I'm trying to find scientific evidence whether Witch Hazel is an effective
> treatment for hemorrhoids or if it's merely a quaint nostrum remedium.
>
> Googling for "Witch Hazel efficacy" reveals an amazingly confusing array
> of
> patent medicine websites (many selling the brew purporting to help
> alleviate the pain of hemorrhoids) and encyclopedic references (e.g.,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_...28astringent%29 ) yet I can not
> find any US GOVERNMENT or SCIENTIFIC quote for the true efficacy of Witch
> Hazel for the treatment of hemorrhoids (or anything else, for that
> matter).
>
> Even a search on the US Pharmacopeia ( http://www.usp.org ) for Hamamelis
> virginiana netted a surprising lack of information about this concoction.
>
> Of course, many pseudo-scientific websites (hundreds it seems) boldly
> state
> the H. virginiana based astringent is effective for the treatment of
> hemorrhoids (e.g., http://www.paghat.com/witchhazelmedicinal.html ) but
> that doesn't make it scientifically proven.
>
> About the closest I can find to a reliable government or scientific source
> is this short quote from http://www.herbdatanz.com/nf_usd_a-d.htm stating:
> AQUA HAMAMELIDIS; N.F
> Hamamelis Water [Aq. Hamam.] Witch Hazel Water.
> This is a popular, but useless, embrocation made by distillation of
> Hamamelis twigs It contains a trace of volatile oil but no therapeutically
> active substance; even the alcohol present is in too small a proportion to
> exert any beneficial action.
>
> The problem is this is the ONLY government or scientific source I could
> find that discussed the efficacy of Witch Hazel water (Hamamelis
> virginiana) and it did not discuss hemorrhoids in particular, yet, I can
> find thousands of quotes from the popular websites stating it is
> effective.
>
> My question:
> Do you know of any scientific evidence reporting the efficacy of witch
> hazel for the treatment of hemorrhoids?
>
> Chris

lightlady

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

Thank you soooo much for posting this! it works!!! i just tried it, and
man, am i a happy camper right now :-) and like OG said, just put the witch
hazel on a cotton ball and place on the outside 'roids and squeeze the
cheeks together for 5-10 minutes. just don't sit down on anything you don't
want a wet spot to appear ;-}
--
lynn
"OldGoat" <oldgoatmail@ERdocsuckyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:E1dYe.19374$Yu2.7390@trnddc02...
> Dear Chris,
>
> Witch Hazel is indeed Da Bomb used against hemorrhoids, this is first hand
> knowledge and is so effective there's no study required. Apply to a cotton
> ball or gauze pad, and leave in place (no stuffing, as there are no nerves
> that high up) and within 5 minutes or so you will find a minor miracle has
> occurred, pain and itching will have almost disappeared and swollen
tissues
> will begin to shrink. Keep it in place as long as possible, changing as
> needed. Again, do not go stuffing anything way up inside, you don't need
the
> added complication of removal which should occur without much help, but is
> not an always or a given and you don't need complications. Use a bigger
wad
> of cotton or gauze if needed. It will still take a few days to calm things
> down and bleeding may still occur, but provided the blood is the bright
red
> variety and it does stop shortly after a movement (the witch hazel can
also
> be used to clean things up) you're ok. If the blood is dark, hit 911 and
the
> ER to get a better look at what could be something more serious.
> A word about surgeries - external hemorrhoids are a fairly simple affair,
> entailing a local, like Novocain at the dentists, and a quick
> snip-literally. A few days of minor, local soreness, and you are done.
They
> will normally put a little gauze in as packing, which you should remove a
> couple hours later or in a sitz bath (just enough warm water in a tub to
> "cover" the general area), will help and reduce any bleeding that may
still
> be going on.
> Hemorrhoids that are further up often bleed but do not hurt as most of the
> nerves just do not go up that high and being just a weak spot in a vein,
are
> often tied off tightly with rubber bands where they will just die from
lack
> of blood flow to the area and the tissue will come out in its own good
time.
> Getting access to these is another story all together, and even though is
> normally done as out patient, is often one of the most painful surgeries
one
> can have. You are much better off keeping things clean with the witch
hazel,
> using a stool softener, and ultimately adding fiber to your diet.
> I'm sorry I can't give you any study or site any statements from official
> sources, but seeing is believing and if this is more than a school project
> or paper and are asking for more "personal" reasons, stop the torture and
> find out yourself. Keep the expensive ointments, that 75 cent bottle is
> worth it's weight in gold.
> People often snicker and joke about hemorrhoids, but anyone that's ever
had
> them knows there is nothing funny about them, everyone get them to one
> extent or another eventually. I've seen the roughest toughest most macho
> guys you would ever see, brought to tears from these things. A bottle of
> witch hazel a couple cotton balls and 10 minutes later, and they were back
> to themselves. Don't suffer, it does work.
> Feel free you email me if you're uncomfortable discussing this, if I can
> help, you've got it.
>
> Take Care--og
>
>
>
>
> "Chris Kelly" <KellyGirlAndMom@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1w3l6s7p5nqlc.yyvqx74qsxi.dlg@40tude.net...
effective[vbcol=seagreen]
not[vbcol=seagreen]
Witch[vbcol=seagreen]
Hamamelis[vbcol=seagreen]
concoction.[vbcol=seagreen]
source[vbcol=seagreen]
stating:[vbcol=seagreen]
therapeutically[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>

Chris Kelly

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:15:16 GMT, OldGoat wrote:

> I'm sorry I can't give you any study or site any statements from official
> sources, but seeing is believing and if this is more than a school project
> or paper and are asking for more "personal" reasons, stop the torture and
> find out yourself. Keep the expensive ointments, that 75 cent bottle is
> worth it's weight in gold.

Hi OldGoat,
Thank you for the advice.
Yes, this is for ME (not a school project)! I never had them before but now
that I'm out of college and working sitting down all day, all of a sudden I
have ... well ... you know ... piles. And it hurts.

After unsuccessfully pushing it back, I looked it up and was horrified to
find that I couldn't find good scientific reports showing what works and
what doesn't work. I wasn't born yesterday so I know there is a lot of
quackery out there. Even the doctors have it wrong sometimes, for example,
duct tape occlusion therapy removes warts better than cryogenics, for
example. This kind of information is never anecdotal ... it's factual.

However, my hasty web-based research as to what to use to alleviate my
sudden case of the piles didn't turn up anything other than "Preparation H"
and "Witch Hazel Water Astringent" for the hemmorrhoid and other items for
the itching and burning sensations, neither of which seemed well tested in
the literature, but both of which were well recommended in the urban
legend.

I did find out the itching & burning isn't due to the hemmorrhoid but to a
secondary infection or inflammation so I put some Clotrimizole 1%
antifungal cream to kill the fungi; some Bacitracin cream to kill the
bacteria; and Benadryl 2% diphenhydramine hydrochloride to lessen the
inflammatory immune response. Obviously I have no idea what I am doing and
no idea if this will help but the creams seem to feel good if nothing else
(although time may tell). Since piles apparently spontaneously heal, only a
scientific study can tell for sure - so THAT is why I'm looking for one to
read.

Having the real problem to resolve and not just a theoretical one, I'll
also try the Witch Hazel Astringent Water tonight. I also tried the
Preparation H 72% petrolatum, 14% mineral oil, 3% shark liver oil, 1/4%
phenylephrine hydrochloride hemorrhoidal ointment last night but the vein
is STILL sticking out so it didn't work (at least not yet). Certainly the
ingredient list smacks of patent medicine quackery (what is "mineral oil"
anyway and what is "petrolatum" and why would a shark liver have something
that would make a vein recede back where it belongs, etc.)? How is this any
different than swabbing by anus with Johnson & Johnson K-Y Jelly or plain
old vaseline?

One thing I did notice was that bowel movement this morning was VERY EASY
(I'm not sure if it was due to the squatting I tried based on my literature
search or if it was due to the friction reduction due to the many creams.)
One unexpected bonus was that cleanup was surprisingly easier with all
those creams protecting the skin surface ... this in and of itself
(especially in a work environment where a bidet or sitz bath is
unavailable) may help with the burning and itching part due to the
secondary infection by either the bacteria or fungus.

Having said all that, I have not yet tried the Witch Hazel Astringent Water
(I looked up an "astringent" which seems to match slightly what I need to
happen. I mean ... I have a little tiny balloon that needs to go back home
and the word "astringent" seems a bit light for what I need to occur.)
However, if the creams help with the itching and if the astringent helps
reduce the size of the bulbous veinous hernia, I'm willing to try it.

Thanks for the advice ... if anyone else finds SCIENTIFIC evidence that
witch hazel (or anything else) REALLY works ... please post as I'm sure I'm
not the only woman in the USA who has a sudden case of nasty piles!

Chris

timbirr@mailcity.com

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

diosmin -- a citrus biolflavinoid. Lots of good studies on it.

Personal experience. Witch Hazel did little good....YMMV.

One source (it can be hard to find) is www.puritan.com and do a search
for their "leg health" product, which is basically Diosmin.

DAFLON would be better, but it's not available in the US --

timbirr@mailcity.com

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

Lots of good studies from Europe say Daflon seems to work. The diosmin
component seems to be the key, which is why I threw it out there. If I
could get Daflon, legally, I would.

ZombyWoof

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

On 21 Sep 2005 13:24:13 -0700, uyhujik@yahoo.com wrote:

>
>timbirr@mailcity.com wrote:
>
>Chris Kelly wrote:
>
>I concur. You have been sadly misinformed.
>
>Basically nothing works for hemorrhoids except the body healing
>thyself.
>So, no matter what you use, you'll be convinced it's what cured you.
>
>The proof that witch hazel is an old wives tale cure for hemorrhoids is
>the fact that the bottle in my kitchen doesn't even have an NDC number
>or a USP number on it. All it says is it's an astringent.
>
>Nothing is said about hemorrhoids so please don't believe anyone who
>says it can help as it can't. Nothing can help but time and mother
>nature.
>
No one meant to infer that it is a cure, but as a relief agent it
works quite well. Try it, you'll like it.
--
Zombywoof

Si vis Pacem, Para bellum

Mbannon324@hotmail.com

2005-09-23, 7:29 pm

ZombyWoof <Zomby-Woofdogs@Cox.net> wrote in
news:s394j1l2t2rk6m6a0b147bnmgu5jr4j8b9@4ax.com:
[vbcol=seagreen]

I noticed that also but I don't know what it proves.

My bottle of alcohol has a USP number on it and my bottle of hydrogen
peroxide has an NDC number.

Who knows what the NDC or USP numbers really indicate?

Jeff

2005-09-23, 7:30 pm

Mbannon324@hotmail.com wrote in news:9JqYe.697$i31.375
@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:

> ZombyWoof <Zomby-Woofdogs@Cox.net> wrote in
> news:s394j1l2t2rk6m6a0b147bnmgu5jr4j8b9@4ax.com:
>
>
> I noticed that also but I don't know what it proves.
>
> My bottle of alcohol has a USP number on it and my bottle of hydrogen
> peroxide has an NDC number.
>
> Who knows what the NDC or USP numbers really indicate?
>

http://www.usp.org/aboutUSP/
http://www.fda.gov/cder/ndc/

uyhujik@yahoo.com

2005-09-23, 7:30 pm

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> http://www.herbalgram.org/iherb/exp...sione/he103.asp

This has to be the ONLY STUDY on the entire Internet!
I looked witch hazel up myself only to find nothing whatsoever
scientific, so I, for one, laud you for finding this one scientific
study which apparently concluded:

- European witch hazel is DIFFERENT than USA witch hazel water
- The USA witch hazel water has no tannin (astringent) for example
- The astringency in USA witch hazel water is due to the 15% alcohol
- In UV irritation tests, the witch hazel worked about as well as
creams
- Hydrocortisone, in general, is a more effective anti-inflammatory
creme

There are no other known scientific studies of the USA witch hazel
extract (which is apparently NOT the same concoction as the German &
French varities) so these conclusions must, by necessity, be treated as
the whole of scientific knowledge about this extract for its use to
treat hemorrhoids.

Twittering One

2005-09-23, 7:30 pm

"Efficacy of Witch Hazel water astringent
(Hamamelis virginiana)"
~ Uyho

"?yourpoint?"
~ Twittering

"The Magic Toy Shoppe,
O, where ~ ?"
~ Fobby

Twittering One

2005-09-23, 7:30 pm

"Nobody looked at the map,
Nobody cares."
~ Mer Loleil

"Wrong!"
! ~ The Axelated Isomer

~ * ~

Le Mouse meets
A Deuce Coupe de Mooses ~ * !

"Point me."
~ Margaux

"Mouse went
That ~ a ~ way
<~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ "
~ Twittering

..|***|....................................~ (@:> *

..[18 musicians too]............................. ~(@:> *

..[www.wnyc.org].................... ~ (@:> *

~ * ~

"Politically incorrect ~ ! But
Sheep nice. My advice, my counsel, hunt
Down a Feragamo Footwear Shoppe, complimentary
Accesories for Apparently Sheep Apparel."
~ Ms. Juntwaite

~ * ~
Blog, I'll warrant ye, or dog? Who knows. Pass the grog!
But if ye see me lost pup, please bring that scurvy dog home!
I got Leon a brand-new bone, with a chest full a' booty.
_________________
http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo

Twittering One

2005-09-23, 7:30 pm

~ * Witch Hazel Leaf
& Bark

Nouveauu
Pharmacopoeia ~

Witch hazel water,
Made from the steam distillate of the twigs.
In Germany, witch hazel is listed
In the Drug Codex,

Fresh leaf and twigs of H. virginiana L.
Consist of leaves and twigs collected in spring
And early summer
For the production of water distillates.

"O, that's nice."
~ Capsicum

"Delivery system ~
Atomized or cotton swab ~ ?"
~ La Crema

Twittering One

2005-09-23, 7:30 pm

"Randomized
Study, or anecdotal ~ ?
In any case, your insistence, rather maniacal. "
~ Ms. Moth