Medicine transcription - "anti-Xmas" thread followup

Author

"anti-Xmas" thread followup

Eliyahu

2005-12-16, 5:55 pm

Since, IIRC, it was brought up in a thread a week or two ago, here's a
bit more on O'Reilly's claims that there's a "campaign against Xmas"...

>From the December 13 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann:

"OLBERMANN: But the winner tonight: yeah, him again. You know how we've

been telling you he's been making up this blarney about a plot against
Christmas? Well, I had meant that term "making up" metaphorically.
Silly me. O'Reilly told his TV audience that a school in Plano, Texas,
was so anti-Christmas it had told its kids not to wear red and green
during the holidays; he told his radio audience that this entire
township of Saginaw, Michigan, had done the same thing. Plano's
superintendent of schools had to contact parents to tell them O'Reilly
was wrong. Saginaw's township manager Ron Lee, wearing his red shirt
and his Santa Claus tie and sitting next to his Christmas tree in his
office, has also demanded a retraction. Where does O'Reilly get this
nonsense? Well, take a guess. Bill O'Reilly -- once again, the Worst
Person in the World."

Eliyahu

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-16, 5:55 pm

Why does that not surprise me. That man is disgusting. This is all a
distraction. This is a link to a cute poem read yesterday in congress that
is way too true!!

http://www.democrats.house.gov/news..._content_id=590

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134764106.614195.159640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Since, IIRC, it was brought up in a thread a week or two ago, here's a
> bit more on O'Reilly's claims that there's a "campaign against Xmas"...
>
>
> "OLBERMANN: But the winner tonight: yeah, him again. You know how we've
>
> been telling you he's been making up this blarney about a plot against
> Christmas? Well, I had meant that term "making up" metaphorically.
> Silly me. O'Reilly told his TV audience that a school in Plano, Texas,
> was so anti-Christmas it had told its kids not to wear red and green
> during the holidays; he told his radio audience that this entire
> township of Saginaw, Michigan, had done the same thing. Plano's
> superintendent of schools had to contact parents to tell them O'Reilly
> was wrong. Saginaw's township manager Ron Lee, wearing his red shirt
> and his Santa Claus tie and sitting next to his Christmas tree in his
> office, has also demanded a retraction. Where does O'Reilly get this
> nonsense? Well, take a guess. Bill O'Reilly -- once again, the Worst
> Person in the World."
>
> Eliyahu
>

Jeannie Wilson

2005-12-16, 5:55 pm

"Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote here for all to
seenews:1134764106.614195.159640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Since, IIRC, it was brought up in a thread a week or two ago, here's a
> bit more on O'Reilly's claims that there's a "campaign against Xmas"...

Unfortunately, the "anti-Christmas claims" did not only come from O'Reilly
and were not only discussed by O'Reilly.

Gisele

2005-12-16, 5:55 pm

Thanks for posting that. I guess Xmas will stagger on for a few more
years.

Gisele

--
Gisele

Ed Chait

2005-12-17, 12:55 am

"Gisele" <Gisele.205m8b@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.205m8b@nospam.com...
>
> Thanks for posting that. I guess Xmas will stagger on for a few more
> years.
>
> Gisele

Maybe Christmas will. Much to your chagrin, I'm sure.

Merry Christmas!

ed

RaeMorrill

2005-12-17, 12:55 am

Sounds like these things spread because "a trusted person" says it so
all believe. Like the rumor about Proctor & Gamble's logo being a
demonic symbol, which I understand was being spread by churches.

Jeannie Wilson wrote:
> "Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote here for all to
> seenews:1134764106.614195.159640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, the "anti-Christmas claims" did not only come from O'Reilly
> and were not only discussed by O'Reilly.

Barbara Carlson

2005-12-17, 12:55 am

That was fun--thanks Susan.

Barb C.
"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:D96dnVmnuMKtuD7eRVn-uw@comcast.com...
> Why does that not surprise me. That man is disgusting. This is all a
> distraction. This is a link to a cute poem read yesterday in congress
> that
> is way too true!!
>
> http://www.democrats.house.gov/news..._content_id=590
>
>
>
> --
> Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
> (to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
> "Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134764106.614195.159640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>

Gisele

2005-12-17, 12:55 am

> Maybe Christmas will. Much to your chagrin, I'm sure.
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
> ed
> Ed, that is not a very nice thing to say!

Gisele

--
Gisele

Ed Chait

2005-12-17, 12:55 am

"Gisele" <Gisele.205xwc@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.205xwc@nospam.com...
>
>
> Gisele
>

But it sounded as if you were very chagrined that you might have to hear
about Christmas for a few more years. Perhaps I was mistaken.

ed

Blupencl

2005-12-17, 12:55 am

One thing that kills me about all this "happy holidays" stuff is the
fact that "holiday" means "holy day" -- doesn't it? That sounds a lot
churchier than "Merry Christmas" to me. Of course I don't care one way
or the other, it all is okay with me. I think it's mainly plumb silly
that all these policies are being made.

--
Blupencl

Phyllis Nilsson

2005-12-17, 10:53 am

I called Wal-Mart yesterday to get some information, and the person
answering the phone said "Merry Christmas". When I went there to buy
gift cards (no service fees, no expiration date) one of the clerks was
so very, out-of-the-ordinary helpful that I expressed my appreciation
and said, "Merry Christmas" and she returned the greeting. A cashier
told me they felt bad because some people had decided to shop elsewhere
because of the ban on them saying "Merry Christmas", but they had never
been told they couldn't say it. I've hard that Target and Sears are now
using the greeting also.

Blupencl wrote:
> One thing that kills me about all this "happy holidays" stuff is the
> fact that "holiday" means "holy day" -- doesn't it? That sounds a lot
> churchier than "Merry Christmas" to me. Of course I don't care one way
> or the other, it all is okay with me. I think it's mainly plumb silly
> that all these policies are being made.
>
>

Gisele

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

> But it sounded as if you were very chagrined that you might have to hear
> about Christmas for a few more years. Perhaps I was mistaken.
>
> ed
>
I think if Christians celebrate Christmas, then everything will be
okay. It's not possible to live in this country and NOT be aware that
Christmas is being celebrated, and yet somehow this holiday is seen as
being in danger of disappearing. I think just don't think that is the
case.

Gisele

--
Gisele

Marsha

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

Gisele wrote:

> I think if Christians celebrate Christmas, then everything will be
> okay. It's not possible to live in this country and NOT be aware that
> Christmas is being celebrated, and yet somehow this holiday is seen as
> being in danger of disappearing. I think just don't think that is the
> case.

That sounds like the anti-life people
who think legal abortion is in danger of
disappearing. Do you think that's any
more likely?

Marsha/Ohio

Sandi

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

"Gisele" <Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com...
>
> I think if Christians celebrate Christmas, then everything will be
> okay. It's not possible to live in this country and NOT be aware that
> Christmas is being celebrated, and yet somehow this holiday is seen as
> being in danger of disappearing. I think just don't think that is the
> case.
>
> Gisele
>
I don't think Christmas is in danger of disappearing, only many of the more
enjoyable traditional aspects of it. I mean, if simply saying "Merry
Christmas" is offensive, surely caroling is pure evil.

Sandi

jmorngstar@aol.com

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

That sounds like the anti-life people
who think legal abortion is in danger of
disappearing. Do you think that's any
more likely?

Marsha/Ohio

Marsha,

You really cannot believe your own analogy can you? The difference is
that elected officials have stated that YES they will try and get rid
of legal abortion and change the constitution. It takes a much smaller
percentage to take away a legal right. How can you think that a
holiday celebrated by 85% of the population (even nonChristians) is
going to go bye-bye.

This is a very sad analogy for me.

Janice

Gisele

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

> That sounds like the anti-life people
> who think legal abortion is in danger of
> disappearing. Do you think that's any
> more likely?
>
> Marsha/Ohio
>
>
I think that's a pretty tasteless question to put into this thread.

Gisele

--
Gisele

Marsha

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

jmorngstar@aol.com wrote:

> That sounds like the anti-life people
> who think legal abortion is in danger of
> disappearing. Do you think that's any
> more likely?
>
> Marsha/Ohio
>
>
> Marsha,
>
> You really cannot believe your own analogy can you? The difference is
> that elected officials have stated that YES they will try and get rid
> of legal abortion and change the constitution.

Do you honestly believe that abortion
will ever become illegal again? I don't.

It takes a much smaller
> percentage to take away a legal right.

That same small percentage made it legal
in the first place.

How can you think that a
> holiday celebrated by 85% of the population (even nonChristians) is
> going to go bye-bye.

I don't. The point is that there are
extremists on both sides of this
analogy. Christmas is not likely to be
taken over completely, as some would
like to think. Abortion is not going to
be made illegal again, as some would
like to think.

Marsha/Ohio

Marsha

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

Gisele wrote:

>
> I think that's a pretty tasteless question to put into this thread.
>
> Gisele
>
Why is it tasteless? I agree that
Christmas is not likely to disappear,
just as legal abortion is not likely to
disappear, despite all the screaming
from both sides.

Marsha/Ohio

Eliyahu

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

Marsha wrote:
> Gisele wrote:
>
>
> That sounds like the anti-life people
> who think legal abortion is in danger of
> disappearing. Do you think that's any
> more likely?
>
Well, do we have people running for office who make "anti-Xmas" their
main campaign issue or who pander to anti-Xmas voters? Are potential
judges and Supreme Court Justices vetted to see if they'll support the
adminstration's anti-Xmas position? When was the last time you saw a
group of strident anti-Xmas protestors demonstrating in the streets in
an attempt to shut down a Xmas tree vendor or trying to foist their
literature on kids waiting in line to see Santa?

Personally, I'm glad that this tiresome holiday only comes once a year,
although it does seem to start earlier and earlier every year. This
year, the store displays had to share shelf space with halloween candy
and costumes... If I were to make suppositions about the origins of
the American Xmas celebration, I would imagine that it is derived from
the part of the story where the three wise men cut down a pine tree,
hauled it to Bethlehem, lit it with candles and exchanged expensive
gifts with each other while the Little Drummer Boy pounded on his drum
to help Jesus sleep so his parents could get the last of the Xmas cards
addressed and mailed.

Incidentally, for any who think that the "anti-Xmas" movement is
anti-Christian, I would note that the pilgrims and their descendents
also banned it and imposed severe penalties on anyone who tried to
celebrate it.

"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this
jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were
superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God
and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the
authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day
as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or
any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so
offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to
the county."

>From the records of the General Court,
Massachusetts Bay Colony
May 11, 1659

Their preachers came down hard on such celebrations as well:

"The generality of Christmas-keepers observe that festival after such a
manner as is highly dishonourable to the name of Christ. How few are
there comparatively that spend those holidays (as they are called)
after an holy manner. But they are consumed in Compotations, in
Interludes, in playing at Cards, in Revellings, in excess of Wine, in
mad Mirth ..."

- Reverend Increase Mather, 1687

The ban was revoked in 1681 by an English-appointed governor Sir Edmund
Andros, who also revoked a Puritan ban against festivities on Saturday
night. But even after the ban was lifted, the majority of colonists
still abstained from celebrations. Samuel Sewell, whose diary of life
in Massachusetts Bay Colony was later published, made a habit of
watching the holiday - specifically how it was observed each year.
"Carts came to town and Shops open as is usual. Some, somehow, observe
the day; but are vexed, I believe, that the Body of the People profane
it, - and, blessed be God! no Authority yet to compell them to keep
it," Sewell wrote in 1685.

Lew Rockwell has some good words on the subject at
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell...-christmas.html

Eliyahu

Gisele

2005-12-17, 5:55 pm

> I don't think Christmas is in danger of disappearing, only many of the
> more
> enjoyable traditional aspects of it. I mean, if simply saying "Merry
> Christmas" is offensive, surely caroling is pure evil.
>
> Sandi
> Say Merry Christmas to whomever you choose. Is someone stopping you
from doing that? Are do you want to get to decide what greeting others
are to use?

Gisele

--
Gisele

Eliyahu

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

Marsha wrote:
> Gisele wrote:
>
> Why is it tasteless? I agree that
> Christmas is not likely to disappear,
> just as legal abortion is not likely to
> disappear, despite all the screaming
> from both sides.
>
To repeat what I said elsewhere in the thread on this topic...
Do we have people running for office who make "anti-Xmas" their
main campaign issue or who pander to anti-Xmas voters? Are potential
judges and Supreme Court Justices vetted to see if they'll support the
adminstration's anti-Xmas position? When was the last time you saw a
group of strident anti-Xmas protestors demonstrating in the streets in
an attempt to shut down a Xmas tree vendor or trying to foist their
literature on kids waiting in line to see Santa?

No one is trying to make Xmas illegal or to prevent people from
enjoying it. No one is proposing constitutional amendments banning it
or imposing criminal penalties on those who keep it. What seems to
have folks incensed is that possibility that store clerks who may or
may not celebrate it themselves might not be compelled by their
employers to offer a religious holiday greeting to complete strangers
who also may or may not celebrate it themselves. If O'Reilly and those
of his ilk had their way, a Muslim employee at Target would be required
to greet a Jewish customer with salutations relating to a holiday of no
interest or significance to either one of them. I wonder, too, if a
Jewish President (we might have one someday) would be excoriated for
sending out an official seasonal greeting card that wished the
recipients a Happy Hannukah?

Eliyahu

Sandi

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

"Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134864945.251009.55520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Marsha wrote:
> To repeat what I said elsewhere in the thread on this topic...
> Do we have people running for office who make "anti-Xmas" their
> main campaign issue or who pander to anti-Xmas voters? Are potential
> judges and Supreme Court Justices vetted to see if they'll support the
> adminstration's anti-Xmas position? When was the last time you saw a
> group of strident anti-Xmas protestors demonstrating in the streets in
> an attempt to shut down a Xmas tree vendor or trying to foist their
> literature on kids waiting in line to see Santa?
>
> No one is trying to make Xmas illegal or to prevent people from
> enjoying it. No one is proposing constitutional amendments banning it
> or imposing criminal penalties on those who keep it. What seems to
> have folks incensed is that possibility that store clerks who may or
> may not celebrate it themselves might not be compelled by their
> employers to offer a religious holiday greeting to complete strangers
> who also may or may not celebrate it themselves. If O'Reilly and those
> of his ilk had their way, a Muslim employee at Target would be required
> to greet a Jewish customer with salutations relating to a holiday of no
> interest or significance to either one of them. I wonder, too, if a
> Jewish President (we might have one someday) would be excoriated for
> sending out an official seasonal greeting card that wished the
> recipients a Happy Hannukah?
>
> Eliyahu
>
Eli, you and I both know that isn't the complaint. The complaint is the act
of businesses who are counting on Christmas shopping for a good portion of
their yearly profits instructing their employees NOT to say "Merry
Christmas." No one is complaining about anybody not being forced to say
anything; what I find offensive is them profiting mightily from a holiday
that they are not allowing their employees to recognize even exists.

It's all moot, now, I suppose, because the brouhaha caused such major
backpedaling, and now supposedly the phrase isn't banned any more. But
please don't insinuate that anyone expects people to be forced to say
something. My problem is when they are forced not to, and, in the case of
retail, the hypocrisy attached thereto.

Sandi

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

ROTFL! Somehow this reminds me of a cartoon my sister saved for me
once, whose caption was, "For some reason the little accordion boy was
not welcomed at the manger." LOL

Eliyahu wrote:
> and costumes... If I were to make suppositions about the origins of
> the American Xmas celebration, I would imagine that it is derived from
> the part of the story where the three wise men cut down a pine tree,
> hauled it to Bethlehem, lit it with candles and exchanged expensive
> gifts with each other while the Little Drummer Boy pounded on his drum
> to help Jesus sleep so his parents could get the last of the Xmas cards
> addressed and mailed.

Eliyahu Rooff

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

"Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40joisF1arfklU2@individual.net...
>
> "Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134864945.251009.55520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Eli, you and I both know that isn't the complaint. The complaint
> is the act of businesses who are counting on Christmas shopping
> for a good portion of their yearly profits instructing their
> employees NOT to say "Merry Christmas." No one is complaining
> about anybody not being forced to say anything; what I find
> offensive is them profiting mightily from a holiday that they are
> not allowing their employees to recognize even exists.
>
> It's all moot, now, I suppose, because the brouhaha caused such
> major backpedaling, and now supposedly the phrase isn't banned any
> more. But please don't insinuate that anyone expects people to be
> forced to say something. My problem is when they are forced not
> to, and, in the case of retail, the hypocrisy attached thereto.
>
Unfortunately, with the current fuss, any employee of a large chain
who chooses not to say "Merry Xmas" is likely to come under pressure
and criticism simply because someone in the general public may use
it to start another chain-rumor that "Big Box Store has banned
Xmas" again. Hence, they'll likely feel forced to whether or not
it's their desire.

The fact is, though, that many business use scripts for their
emplyees to follow in dealing with the public. Call centers and
telemarketers are the most prominent and best-known examples, but
retail stores do it to some extent, and it's not unreasonable for
those retailers in a location where there is a non-Christian
population of any size to decide that they want a more general
greeting that won't annoy that percentage of their customers. It's
no different than any other greeting script in that it's only a way
of opening a conversation with the customer -- not a personal
expression of religious faith or an effort to proselytize.

By the end of December, many of us will have been "Merry Xmas'd" and
"Happy Holiday'd" to the point that a regular "Good Morning" will be
very welcome, and will sympathize with the words of Mr. Scrooge:
" If I could work my will, every one who goes about with 'Merry
Christmas' on his lips would be boiled in his own plum pudding, and
buried with a stake of holly through his heart." :-)

Eliyahu

RaeMorrill

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

I hope it is Jewish woman!

Eliyahu wrote:
> Marsha wrote:
>
>
> To repeat what I said elsewhere in the thread on this topic...
> Do we have people running for office who make "anti-Xmas" their
> main campaign issue or who pander to anti-Xmas voters? Are potential
> judges and Supreme Court Justices vetted to see if they'll support the
> adminstration's anti-Xmas position? When was the last time you saw a
> group of strident anti-Xmas protestors demonstrating in the streets in
> an attempt to shut down a Xmas tree vendor or trying to foist their
> literature on kids waiting in line to see Santa?
>
> No one is trying to make Xmas illegal or to prevent people from
> enjoying it. No one is proposing constitutional amendments banning it
> or imposing criminal penalties on those who keep it. What seems to
> have folks incensed is that possibility that store clerks who may or
> may not celebrate it themselves might not be compelled by their
> employers to offer a religious holiday greeting to complete strangers
> who also may or may not celebrate it themselves. If O'Reilly and those
> of his ilk had their way, a Muslim employee at Target would be required
> to greet a Jewish customer with salutations relating to a holiday of no
> interest or significance to either one of them. I wonder, too, if a
> Jewish President (we might have one someday) would be excoriated for
> sending out an official seasonal greeting card that wished the
> recipients a Happy Hannukah?
>
> Eliyahu
>

VickieHerndonCMT

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

Not that it makes a difference, but I just came into this thread today and I
have not read much of it and the last several posts you have to scroll
through so much, I refuse to read it. Guess I am not that interested in
scrolling to see what has been said.

Been busy and not feeling too good so just don't have the patience.

"Eliyahu Rooff" <lrooff@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j03pf.3693$It6.1315@fe02.lga...
>
> "Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40joisF1arfklU2@individual.net...
> Unfortunately, with the current fuss, any employee of a large chain who
> chooses not to say "Merry Xmas" is likely to come under pressure and
> criticism simply because someone in the general public may use it to start
> another chain-rumor that "Big Box Store has banned Xmas" again. Hence,
> they'll likely feel forced to whether or not it's their desire.
>
> The fact is, though, that many business use scripts for their emplyees to
> follow in dealing with the public. Call centers and telemarketers are the
> most prominent and best-known examples, but retail stores do it to some
> extent, and it's not unreasonable for those retailers in a location where
> there is a non-Christian population of any size to decide that they want a
> more general greeting that won't annoy that percentage of their customers.
> It's no different than any other greeting script in that it's only a way
> of opening a conversation with the customer -- not a personal expression
> of religious faith or an effort to proselytize.
>
> By the end of December, many of us will have been "Merry Xmas'd" and
> "Happy Holiday'd" to the point that a regular "Good Morning" will be very
> welcome, and will sympathize with the words of Mr. Scrooge:
> " If I could work my will, every one who goes about with 'Merry Christmas'
> on his lips would be boiled in his own plum pudding, and buried with a
> stake of holly through his heart." :-)
>
> Eliyahu
>

Ed Chait

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

"Gisele" <Gisele.207ikt@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.207ikt@nospam.com...
>
> from doing that? Are do you want to get to decide what greeting others
> are to use?
>
> Gisele
>

Either you're missing the point, or you think the issue is about Sandi not
being able to say "Merry Christmas."

ed

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

What I find interesting is that so many churches are cancelling church on
Sunday because Christmas falls on Sunday. Talk about hypocrisy!! Isn't
that the reason for the season? When I was growing up there was great
pleasure if it fell on Sunday so we would be in church on Christmas! Sorry
but the Christians cancelling church on Sunday have lost any creditability
and are NOT true Christians in any sense as far as I'm concerned. And don't
use the stupid "spending it with family". Especially while espousing let's
celebrate the real meaning. Unbelievable.

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Gisele" <Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com...
>
> I think if Christians celebrate Christmas, then everything will be
> okay. It's not possible to live in this country and NOT be aware that
> Christmas is being celebrated, and yet somehow this holiday is seen as
> being in danger of disappearing. I think just don't think that is the
> case.
>
> Gisele
>
>
> --
> Gisele

Phyllis Nilsson

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

I agree with you. There was an article in our newspaper about it today,
but I guess I wasn't too surprised at the ones mentioned that weren't
going to be open.

Susan Mitchell wrote:
> What I find interesting is that so many churches are cancelling church on
> Sunday because Christmas falls on Sunday. Talk about hypocrisy!! Isn't
> that the reason for the season? When I was growing up there was great
> pleasure if it fell on Sunday so we would be in church on Christmas! Sorry
> but the Christians cancelling church on Sunday have lost any creditability
> and are NOT true Christians in any sense as far as I'm concerned. And don't
> use the stupid "spending it with family". Especially while espousing let's
> celebrate the real meaning. Unbelievable.
>

Gisele

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

If there is some enjoyable traditional aspect to Christmas, then I think
Sandi should do whatever she wants to keep whatever those traditions are
going. This whole discussion started with the business of Wal-Mart
greeters saying Happy Holidays. if that's all it takes to spoil
someone's Christmas, I just don't know what to say to that.

Gisele

--
Gisele

DJGordon

2005-12-18, 12:56 am

No, it actually didn't start with that about Wal Mart. I started this
discussion by saying I didn't like the fact that it was being rumored that
in order to be PC the "christ" should be taken out of "christmas" and how in
my opinion I thought it was a load of horse hockey because even agnostic
that I am still realize and accept that Jesus is the reason for the season.
Simple as that. Then others have offered their opinions, others have flamed
people for theirs, when as far as I recall, we're all adults on this board
and not a single discussion seems to be able to stay on an even keel and we
(yes I include myself) continue to act like adults throughout the whole
thread. Bunch of schoolyard bashing and crybabying for people having
different opinions. Well, for those of you so against government control, if
you're so hell-bent on swaying someone to your side of the fence and
believing everything you do, are you any different? Debates are nice and
friendly; this BS is ignorant.

Dani (back to lurk mode---for those I've talked to, mom's still not doing so
well and I'm not home much)

"Gisele" <Gisele.2080ea@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.2080ea@nospam.com...
>
> If there is some enjoyable traditional aspect to Christmas, then I think
> Sandi should do whatever she wants to keep whatever those traditions are
> going. This whole discussion started with the business of Wal-Mart
> greeters saying Happy Holidays. if that's all it takes to spoil
> someone's Christmas, I just don't know what to say to that.
>
> Gisele
>
>
> --
> Gisele

Maureen

2005-12-18, 10:54 am

Okay so only a comment here - but as kids we were thrilled when Christmas
fell on a Sunday because we killed two birds with one stone and didn't have
to go to mass more than usual

Maureen

"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:FfSdnQGVarMqdznenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> What I find interesting is that so many churches are cancelling church on
> Sunday because Christmas falls on Sunday. Talk about hypocrisy!! Isn't
> that the reason for the season? When I was growing up there was great
> pleasure if it fell on Sunday so we would be in church on Christmas!
> Sorry
> but the Christians cancelling church on Sunday have lost any creditability
> and are NOT true Christians in any sense as far as I'm concerned. And
> don't
> use the stupid "spending it with family". Especially while espousing
> let's
> celebrate the real meaning. Unbelievable.
>
> --
> Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
> (to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
> "Gisele" <Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com...
>
>

Ed Chait

2005-12-18, 10:54 am

"Gisele" <Gisele.2080ea@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.2080ea@nospam.com...
>
> If there is some enjoyable traditional aspect to Christmas, then I think
> Sandi should do whatever she wants to keep whatever those traditions are
> going. This whole discussion started with the business of Wal-Mart
> greeters saying Happy Holidays. if that's all it takes to spoil
> someone's Christmas, I just don't know what to say to that.
>
> Gisele
>

I consider the issue to be a bit more pervasive and less innocent than that.
My posts in this thread did not address solely the Wal-Mart thing.

ed

Marsha

2005-12-18, 10:54 am

Maureen wrote:

> Okay so only a comment here - but as kids we were thrilled when Christmas
> fell on a Sunday because we killed two birds with one stone and didn't have
> to go to mass more than usual

:-)

Marsha/Ohio

Bam

2005-12-18, 12:52 pm

Foxes tirade over this has FINALLY pushed me over the edge to where I refuse
to turn on their channel any longer.

"Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134764106.614195.159640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Since, IIRC, it was brought up in a thread a week or two ago, here's a
> bit more on O'Reilly's claims that there's a "campaign against Xmas"...
>
>
> "OLBERMANN: But the winner tonight: yeah, him again. You know how we've
>
> been telling you he's been making up this blarney about a plot against
> Christmas? Well, I had meant that term "making up" metaphorically.
> Silly me. O'Reilly told his TV audience that a school in Plano, Texas,
> was so anti-Christmas it had told its kids not to wear red and green
> during the holidays; he told his radio audience that this entire
> township of Saginaw, Michigan, had done the same thing. Plano's
> superintendent of schools had to contact parents to tell them O'Reilly
> was wrong. Saginaw's township manager Ron Lee, wearing his red shirt
> and his Santa Claus tie and sitting next to his Christmas tree in his
> office, has also demanded a retraction. Where does O'Reilly get this
> nonsense? Well, take a guess. Bill O'Reilly -- once again, the Worst
> Person in the World."
>
> Eliyahu
>

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-18, 12:52 pm

Susan, I couldn't agree with you more. Those churches ought to be
ashamed of themselves.

Susan Mitchell wrote:
> What I find interesting is that so many churches are cancelling church on
> Sunday because Christmas falls on Sunday. Talk about hypocrisy!! Isn't
> that the reason for the season? When I was growing up there was great
> pleasure if it fell on Sunday so we would be in church on Christmas! Sorry
> but the Christians cancelling church on Sunday have lost any creditability
> and are NOT true Christians in any sense as far as I'm concerned. And don't
> use the stupid "spending it with family". Especially while espousing let's
> celebrate the real meaning. Unbelievable.
>

Gisele

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

> Eli, you and I both know that isn't the complaint. The complaint is the
> act
> of businesses who are counting on Christmas shopping for a good portion
> of
> their yearly profits instructing their employees NOT to say "Merry
> Christmas." No one is complaining about anybody not being forced to say
> anything; what I find offensive is them profiting mightily from a
> holiday
> that they are not allowing their employees to recognize even exists.
>
If you don't like that, then just don't shop in those stores. Don't
give them your business.

Gisele

--
Gisele

Sandi

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

"Gisele" <Gisele.2093xy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.2093xy@nospam.com...
>
> If you don't like that, then just don't shop in those stores. Don't
> give them your business.
>
> Gisele
>
I believe I said already that I'm doing that. Does that mean I'm not
allowed to discuss it publicly as well?

Sandi

Kathycarp

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

I agree. Not all churches are "canceling" worship on Christmas.

--
Kathy
www.ambergriscaye.com/villadelsol
"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:FfSdnQGVarMqdznenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> What I find interesting is that so many churches are cancelling church on
> Sunday because Christmas falls on Sunday. Talk about hypocrisy!! Isn't
> that the reason for the season? When I was growing up there was great
> pleasure if it fell on Sunday so we would be in church on Christmas!
> Sorry
> but the Christians cancelling church on Sunday have lost any creditability
> and are NOT true Christians in any sense as far as I'm concerned. And
> don't
> use the stupid "spending it with family". Especially while espousing
> let's
> celebrate the real meaning. Unbelievable.
>
> --
> Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
> (to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
> "Gisele" <Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Gisele.2078tl@nospam.com...
>
>

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

Not if they're real churches they aren't. As far as I'm concerned the ones
that are have shown what they really are!!

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Kathycarp" <kathycarp@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:_7qdnVH2wuj9STjeRVn-vQ@comcast.com...
> I agree. Not all churches are "canceling" worship on Christmas.
>
> --
> Kathy
> www.ambergriscaye.com/villadelsol
> "Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:FfSdnQGVarMqdznenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com...
on[vbcol=seagreen]
creditability[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>

Gisele

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

I'm just pointing out that there is an action that you can take. You
can't make other people share you attitude about what Christmas was in
the past or what it should be now.

Gisele

--
Gisele

Sandi

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

"Gisele" <Gisele.2099au@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.2099au@nospam.com...
>
> I'm just pointing out that there is an action that you can take. You
> can't make other people share you attitude about what Christmas was in
> the past or what it should be now.
>
> Gisele
>
So I should not post about it? If number of posts indicates the fervor one
feels about a subject, you're currently at 52 to my 40 over 4 threads, 2 of
which you started. What's your point?

Sandi

Barbara Carlson

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

I quit their channel long before this nonsense!

Barb C.
"Bam" <dearcounselor@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:40lm69F1b6onlU1@individual.net...
> Foxes tirade over this has FINALLY pushed me over the edge to where I
> refuse
> to turn on their channel any longer.
>
>
> "Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134764106.614195.159640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>

Barbara Carlson

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

I do not see where anyone said you couldn't post Sandi, but all the posts in
the world won't change things. Gisele simply pointed our there was an
activist position one could take if they felt strongly about the issue. If
enough people felt that way things would change. As a store owner simply
trying not to offend anyone they have wound up offending a whole bunch of
people. Damned if they do, damned if they don't!!!

Barb C.
"Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40m41pF1baf15U2@individual.net...
>
> "Gisele" <Gisele.2099au@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Gisele.2099au@nospam.com...
> So I should not post about it? If number of posts indicates the fervor
> one feels about a subject, you're currently at 52 to my 40 over 4 threads,
> 2 of which you started. What's your point?
>
> Sandi
>
>

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

No kidding! It is a direct channel from Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Barbara Carlson" <bbcarlson@snappydsl.net> wrote in message
news:qrWdnSpzbOChQzjenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@snappydsl.net...
> I quit their channel long before this nonsense!
>
> Barb C.
> "Bam" <dearcounselor@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:40lm69F1b6onlU1@individual.net...
Olbermann:[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>

Sandi

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

"Barbara Carlson" <bbcarlson@snappydsl.net> wrote in message
news:IaWdnYrhifuNQjjeRVn-qQ@snappydsl.net...
>I do not see where anyone said you couldn't post Sandi, but all the posts
>in the world won't change things. Gisele simply pointed our there was an
>activist position one could take if they felt strongly about the issue. If
>enough people felt that way things would change. As a store owner simply
>trying not to offend anyone they have wound up offending a whole bunch of
>people. Damned if they do, damned if they don't!!!
>
> Barb C.

My point is, she "suggested" this long after I stated categorically that I
have already done so, as if I should shut up and just go do it. I don't
think the two things, acting on my opinion and expressing my opinion are
mutually exclusive. And if I'm not going to change any minds by talking
about it, what makes you think folks on the other side of the spectrum are?
I don't see anyone telling them to shut up.

Sandi (who is feeling definitely cranky today after having had many of the
joys of Christmas taken away from me by circumstance, and not so willing to
give up anything else)

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

Funny, I am always cranky at Christmas, but not this year and you know why?
Most of my Christmas money and gifts went to the needy. That has been the
best ever!! As stated before we adopted a Katrina family where I work out
of Seattle and gathering for them was the most fun ever!! Also my political
buddy has many penpals she writes in Iraq and earlier we sent many packages
to them. To me that is where our thoughts should be on the needy not the
greedy!! No one in my family needs a dang thing. We don't buy for anyone
but the kids anyway so it never is a big deal gift wise around here and this
was so much better! To me this was the best ever, helping others really
helps yourself, trust me on that!!

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40m64oF1bfl22U1@individual.net...
>
> "Barbara Carlson" <bbcarlson@snappydsl.net> wrote in message
> news:IaWdnYrhifuNQjjeRVn-qQ@snappydsl.net...
If[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> My point is, she "suggested" this long after I stated categorically that I
> have already done so, as if I should shut up and just go do it. I don't
> think the two things, acting on my opinion and expressing my opinion are
> mutually exclusive. And if I'm not going to change any minds by talking
> about it, what makes you think folks on the other side of the spectrum
are?
> I don't see anyone telling them to shut up.
>
> Sandi (who is feeling definitely cranky today after having had many of the
> joys of Christmas taken away from me by circumstance, and not so willing
to
> give up anything else)
>
>

jmorngstar@aol.com

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

What I don't get - people putting their money where their mouth is. It
has been all over the news about Wal-Mart's decision to say Happy
Holidays. They interviewed people left and right in the parking lot,
who said that they were really upset about this and they think that it
is horrible. Of course, this was on their way into or out of Wal-Mart,
where they had spent money.

That makes me sick. I am anti-Wal-Mart and have been since I first
heard of them. How can people be so hypocritical as to spend their
money in Wal-Mart when they disagree so strongly with the principles
being exhibited. Are the churches preaching picket from the pulpet.
Where is Jerry Falwell and President Bush on this issue? Could it be
that too many people have Wal-Mart stock and so money speaks louder
than principle.

Janice

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

Me too, Janice. I have talked to people who have literally said, but I like
to save money, you go protest for me!! I said if you keep going there it
does no good and that is why corporation like this survive. It is the "all
about me" syndrome in America. They just don't care.

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
<jmorngstar@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1134945716.413869.87410@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> What I don't get - people putting their money where their mouth is. It
> has been all over the news about Wal-Mart's decision to say Happy
> Holidays. They interviewed people left and right in the parking lot,
> who said that they were really upset about this and they think that it
> is horrible. Of course, this was on their way into or out of Wal-Mart,
> where they had spent money.
>
> That makes me sick. I am anti-Wal-Mart and have been since I first
> heard of them. How can people be so hypocritical as to spend their
> money in Wal-Mart when they disagree so strongly with the principles
> being exhibited. Are the churches preaching picket from the pulpet.
> Where is Jerry Falwell and President Bush on this issue? Could it be
> that too many people have Wal-Mart stock and so money speaks louder
> than principle.
>
> Janice
>

Gisele

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

> So I should not post about it? If number of posts indicates the fervor
> one
> feels about a subject, you're currently at 52 to my 40 over 4 threads,
> 2 of
> which you started. What's your point?
>
> Sandi
>
You're counting posts? I guess my point is that you should do whatever
you need to do to make the holiday enjoyable for yourself. If bitching
about the the PC crybabies and minority whiners is what makes you
happy, carry on! I asked you once what you personally were no longer
able to do because of current attitudes about Christmas, and you got
all huffy and declared you would no longer discuss this topic. But
you're counting MY posts?

Gisele

--
Gisele

Sandi

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

"Gisele" <Gisele.209d40@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.209d40@nospam.com...
>
> You're counting posts? I guess my point is that you should do whatever
> you need to do to make the holiday enjoyable for yourself. If bitching
> about the the PC crybabies and minority whiners is what makes you
> happy, carry on! I asked you once what you personally were no longer
> able to do because of current attitudes about Christmas, and you got
> all huffy and declared you would no longer discuss this topic. But
> you're counting MY posts?
>
> Gisele
>
Show me getting all huffy. I just knew that you were going to insinuate
that I was going on and on and doing nothing, which you immediately did.
Counting posts takes about 5 seconds, no biggie. You're free to post 1000
times if you want, and so am I, in addition to whatever productive things I
might be doing. That's my point.

Sandi

Sandi

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:QI-dnevvob6leTjeRVn-ow@comcast.com...
> Funny, I am always cranky at Christmas, but not this year and you know
> why?
> Most of my Christmas money and gifts went to the needy. That has been the
> best ever!! As stated before we adopted a Katrina family where I work out
> of Seattle and gathering for them was the most fun ever!! Also my
> political
> buddy has many penpals she writes in Iraq and earlier we sent many
> packages
> to them. To me that is where our thoughts should be on the needy not the
> greedy!! No one in my family needs a dang thing. We don't buy for anyone
> but the kids anyway so it never is a big deal gift wise around here and
> this
> was so much better! To me this was the best ever, helping others really
> helps yourself, trust me on that!!
>
> --
> Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
> (to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)

I agree with you completely - but this is a different kind of loss, and I do
help other people as much as I can, which helps, but doesn't quite do the
trick just now.

Sandi

jmorngstar@aol.com

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

Sandi,

I am sorry for your loss. I hope you find something that takes up the
void and brings you joy again.

Janice

Gisele

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

> Show me getting all huffy. I just knew that you were going to insinuate
> that I was going on and on and doing nothing, which you immediately
> did.
> Counting posts takes about 5 seconds, no biggie. You're free to post
> 1000
> times if you want, and so am I, in addition to whatever productive
> things I
> might be doing. That's my point.
>
> Sandi
>

You yourself said that you were upset and that you weren't going to
discuss this topic anymore. You are welcome to continue to post as
long as you want, as often as you want. You are welcome to continue to
count my posts.

Gisele

--
Gisele

Sandi

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

<jmorngstar@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1134948919.856094.244130@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sandi,
>
> I am sorry for your loss. I hope you find something that takes up the
> void and brings you joy again.
>
> Janice
>
Thanks, Janice. I'm working on it.

Sandi

Sandi

2005-12-18, 5:56 pm

"Gisele" <Gisele.209esh@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gisele.209esh@nospam.com...
>
>
> You yourself said that you were upset and that you weren't going to
> discuss this topic anymore. You are welcome to continue to post as
> long as you want, as often as you want. You are welcome to continue to
> count my posts.
>
> Gisele
>
I believe I said that I found the topic depressing and simply did not have
the time to devote to it, which was true, as I was in the middle of exams.
That I posted again after that is more evidence of my avoiding studying than
anything else - as is my clean house.

Sandi

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-19, 12:55 am

Sorry for your loss, I know how that can be and nothing fills that void.

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40m9buF1atmd1U1@individual.net...
>
> "Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:QI-dnevvob6leTjeRVn-ow@comcast.com...
the[vbcol=seagreen]
out[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
anyone[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I agree with you completely - but this is a different kind of loss, and I
do
> help other people as much as I can, which helps, but doesn't quite do the
> trick just now.
>
> Sandi
>
>

Sandi

2005-12-19, 12:55 am

"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zuadnUtZ9cg9YzjeRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Sorry for your loss, I know how that can be and nothing fills that void.
>
> --
> Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
> (to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)

Thanks, Sue. You're right - I'm just surprised and disappointed that no one
tries.

Sandi

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-19, 12:55 am

They just don't know what to do or say half the time and unfortunately
instead of saying I care what can I do, they do nothing. Why, I'll never
know but it would be nice if they would just "be there".

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40md78F1b6o47U1@individual.net...
>
> "Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:zuadnUtZ9cg9YzjeRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>
> Thanks, Sue. You're right - I'm just surprised and disappointed that no
one
> tries.
>
> Sandi
>
>

Sandi

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zOqdneWGvrs1YjjeRVn-tA@comcast.com...
> They just don't know what to do or say half the time and unfortunately
> instead of saying I care what can I do, they do nothing. Why, I'll never
> know but it would be nice if they would just "be there".
>
> --
> Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
> (to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)

Amen. And in my case, at least not make things more difficult!

Sandi

Eliyahu

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

jmorngstar@aol.com wrote:
> What I don't get - people putting their money where their mouth is. It
> has been all over the news about Wal-Mart's decision to say Happy
> Holidays. They interviewed people left and right in the parking lot,
> who said that they were really upset about this and they think that it
> is horrible. Of course, this was on their way into or out of Wal-Mart,
> where they had spent money.
>
> That makes me sick. I am anti-Wal-Mart and have been since I first
> heard of them. How can people be so hypocritical as to spend their
> money in Wal-Mart when they disagree so strongly with the principles
> being exhibited. Are the churches preaching picket from the pulpet.
> Where is Jerry Falwell and President Bush on this issue? Could it be
> that too many people have Wal-Mart stock and so money speaks louder
> than principle.
>
So, you're so upset and unhappy that some of the folks at WalMart don't
say Merry Xmas that you want to organize a boycott, put them out of
business and leave hundreds of people in your community unemployed?
Did Jesus really command his followers to celebrate his birthday by
supporting economic sanctions against companies that don't follow the
"correct" religious doctrine for two months preceding the date
(December 25) on which his wasn't born? For that matter, where is the
commandment for Christians to celebrate Xmas at all? (Book, chapter and
verse, please.)

Heck, none of the store employees anywhere here wish me a Happy
Hanukkah or put up decorations for the holiday, and I'm not getting in
a lather about it. Come to think of it, they didn't do anything at the
stores for Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, Purim, Pesach, Shavuot, or any of
the other Jewish holidays, either. Of course some of this may be just
because we haven't commercialized them and turned them into
celebrations of conspicuous consumption... In any case, relax. It's
really a tempest in a teapot, being sustained mostly by the very people
you'd expect to oppose commercialization of their religion and
religious holidays.

Eliyahu

Phyllis Nilsson

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

When I called Wal-Mart they answered the phone "Merry Christmas". The
cashier says she doesn't know how the rumor got started because no one
at her store ever told any of them to not say Merry Christmas.

jmorngstar@aol.com wrote:
> What I don't get - people putting their money where their mouth is. It
> has been all over the news about Wal-Mart's decision to say Happy
> Holidays. They interviewed people left and right in the parking lot,
> who said that they were really upset about this and they think that it
> is horrible. Of course, this was on their way into or out of Wal-Mart,
> where they had spent money.
>
> That makes me sick. I am anti-Wal-Mart and have been since I first
> heard of them. How can people be so hypocritical as to spend their
> money in Wal-Mart when they disagree so strongly with the principles
> being exhibited. Are the churches preaching picket from the pulpet.
> Where is Jerry Falwell and President Bush on this issue? Could it be
> that too many people have Wal-Mart stock and so money speaks louder
> than principle.
>
> Janice
>

DJGordon

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

One of my best friends is our local store manager and I asked her today and
she said the same thing...I asked after she wished me a merry christmas.

Dani

"Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:43A6406F.20404@buckeye-express.com...
> When I called Wal-Mart they answered the phone "Merry Christmas". The
> cashier says she doesn't know how the rumor got started because no one at
> her store ever told any of them to not say Merry Christmas.
>
> jmorngstar@aol.com wrote:
>

jmorngstar@aol.com

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

Maybe they learned this from the illegal wire tapes done if an effort
to keep our country safe. Probably high-up shirts were discussing the
implications of this, and were overheard. After all, it is bad for our
national security if Christmas greetings are destroyed.

Either that or those darn Dems starting more unfounded rumors.

Janice

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

Ask liar Bill O'Reilly

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:43A6406F.20404@buckeye-express.com...
> When I called Wal-Mart they answered the phone "Merry Christmas". The
> cashier says she doesn't know how the rumor got started because no one
> at her store ever told any of them to not say Merry Christmas.
>
> jmorngstar@aol.com wrote:
>

DJGordon

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

It was a simple misunderstanding. This from the Washington Post:

Wal-Mart spokeswoman Amy Wyatt said the company has made no effort to remove
Christmas from its holiday ads. She said a promotion set to run from
mid-November to early January was simply misunderstood: its slogan is "home
for the holidays."

"It was a matter of choosing a slogan that carries through the entire
season," Wyatt said. "The signs went up before Thanksgiving and won't be
taken down until after New Year's. The idea was to focus on the family."

Dani

<jmorngstar@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1134969969.070637.261730@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe they learned this from the illegal wire tapes done if an effort
> to keep our country safe. Probably high-up shirts were discussing the
> implications of this, and were overheard. After all, it is bad for our
> national security if Christmas greetings are destroyed.
>
> Either that or those darn Dems starting more unfounded rumors.
>
> Janice
>

DJGordon

2005-12-19, 12:56 am

And the whole rumor started from their sale paper saying holidays instead of
Christmas....

All this arguing over something that isn't even true...whew.

Dani

"DJGordon" <danigordon@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pMrpf.6427$eF1.2825@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> It was a simple misunderstanding. This from the Washington Post:
>
> Wal-Mart spokeswoman Amy Wyatt said the company has made no effort to
> remove Christmas from its holiday ads. She said a promotion set to run
> from mid-November to early January was simply misunderstood: its slogan is
> "home for the holidays."
>
> "It was a matter of choosing a slogan that carries through the entire
> season," Wyatt said. "The signs went up before Thanksgiving and won't be
> taken down until after New Year's. The idea was to focus on the family."
>
>
>
> Dani
>
> <jmorngstar@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1134969969.070637.261730@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>

Sandi

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

"Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:43A6406F.20404@buckeye-express.com...
> When I called Wal-Mart they answered the phone "Merry Christmas". The
> cashier says she doesn't know how the rumor got started because no one at
> her store ever told any of them to not say Merry Christmas.
>
And I encountered a cashier who was complaining that she HAD been told she
couldn't say it. This was before I heard it anywhere else and she and the
cashier beside her were quite upset about it.

Sandi

Sandi

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nMCdnVlixpt72jveRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> Ask liar Bill O'Reilly
>
> --
> Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
> (to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)

What about the lying and visibly upset cashier I encountered before liar
Bill O'Reilly ever got wind of it?

Sandi

Jeannie Wilson

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

RaeMorrill <RaeMorrill@aol.com> wrote here for all to
seenews:5PJof.33455$XC4.29475@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

> Sounds like these things spread because "a trusted person" says it so
> all believe. Like the rumor about Proctor & Gamble's logo being a
> demonic symbol, which I understand was being spread by churches.

I cannot respond on that because I didn't hear it at my church. LOL.
However, I honestly do not think that O'Reilly "got to" the people working
in my local Wal-mart, etc. and lead (or mislead) them to believe that they
could not say Merry Christmas. However, that being whatever it
was....Target now has a new commercial in our area with a BIG OLE MERRY
CHRISTMAS written across the screen at the very end of it. Lowe's has
taken down their "Holiday Tree" signs and even has a few homemade signs in
the store instead of the prefab vinyl ones that were previously there
promoting HOLIDAY TREE ORNAMENTS, etc. If all of this was fabricated by
Bill O'Reilly then it really got out of hand, didn't it, to cause so many
big-time merchants to be fooled enough to spend money changing advertising
campaigns at the last minute.

Jeannie Wilson

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

"Susan Mitchell" <medlawtrans@comcast.net> wrote here for all to
seenews:FfSdnQGVarMqdznenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com:

> What I find interesting is that so many churches are cancelling church on
> Sunday because Christmas falls on Sunday. Talk about hypocrisy!!

No lie! Fortunately, our church is having service on Sunday morning and a
candlelit service on Saturday evening. I haven't checked around locally to
see which ones will be closed on Sunday morning but I would imagine it
would be the ones I imagine it would and am not surprised by that.

Jeannie Wilson

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

"Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote here for all to
seenews:40mb64F1bbb0uU1@individual.net:

> that is more evidence of my avoiding studying than
> anything else - as is my clean house.

Hey...you can come and not study at my house. LOL

Mine's a wreck after hurting my back last Saturday evening and being
immobile for Sunday and barely mobile from Monday through Thursday.

Sandi

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

"Jeannie Wilson" <jwilson421@comcastspamkills.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97315C666FBCCjwilson421comcastnet@216.196.97.136...
> "Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote here for all to
> seenews:40mb64F1bbb0uU1@individual.net:
>
>
> Hey...you can come and not study at my house. LOL
>
> Mine's a wreck after hurting my back last Saturday evening and being
> immobile for Sunday and barely mobile from Monday through Thursday.

Too late! Exams are over.

Sandi

Sandi

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

Jeannie Wilson

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

"Sandi" <sanditypes@yahoo.com> wrote here for all to
seenews:40nvj3F1bblfuU1@individual.net:

> As a P.S. to my smart-aleck reply, I sure hope your back is better!
>
> Sandi

MUCH better now. I was rearranging furniture to put my Christmas tree in a
different spot this year and DH came in to help and I was "in a mood" so
when he said "you want it _there_??" I told him to go back outside and I'd
move it myself and I did move it myself. The next morning I couldn't even
walk. It was miserable. He jokingly told me that God was punishing me for
sassing my husband but then he had to wait on me hand and foot, so I told
him that was his punishment for daring to question his wife. LOL! I am
much better now. It took until about Friday for me to get completely back
to normal as far as mobility goes so now my house is a wreck, tons of
Christmas presents need to be wrapped, etc.

Phyllis Nilsson

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

And I have absolutely no idea how long the cashier at my WalMart had
been working there either. She could have been hired after they changed
their minds and started saying Merry Christmas. Had it not been as you
stated (and in probably a whole lot more stores than yours) this thing
would never have grown like it did and no store would have had to change
their signs and policies.

Sandi wrote:
> "Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
> news:43A6406F.20404@buckeye-express.com...
>
>
> And I encountered a cashier who was complaining that she HAD been told she
> couldn't say it. This was before I heard it anywhere else and she and the
> cashier beside her were quite upset about it.
>
> Sandi
>
>

Blupencl

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

Our church is business as usual, except for maybe a little more joyous
than usual this Sunday. Candlelight communion service Saturday, I
guess.

As for all the Merry Christmas stuff -- nothing ever changed that I
saw, not around here.
[vbcol=seagreen]
and a
candlelit service on Saturday evening. I haven't checked around locally
to
see which ones will be closed on Sunday morning but I would imagine it
would be the ones I imagine it would and am not surprised by that.

--
Blupencl

Kathycarp

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

So, you're so upset and unhappy that some of the folks at WalMart don't say
Merry Xmas that you want to organize a boycott, put them out of business and
leave hundreds of people in your community unemployed?
============

I think you *totally* misunderstood what Janice wrote. Her not liking
WalMart has nothing to do with Merry Christmas, and she said so.

--
Kathy
www.ambergriscaye.com/villadelsol
"Eliyahu" <lrooff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134968037.446693.44160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> jmorngstar@aol.com wrote:
> So, you're so upset and unhappy that some of the folks at WalMart don't
> say Merry Xmas that you want to organize a boycott, put them out of
> business and leave hundreds of people in your community unemployed?
> Did Jesus really command his followers to celebrate his birthday by
> supporting economic sanctions against companies that don't follow the
> "correct" religious doctrine for two months preceding the date
> (December 25) on which his wasn't born? For that matter, where is the
> commandment for Christians to celebrate Xmas at all? (Book, chapter and
> verse, please.)
>
> Heck, none of the store employees anywhere here wish me a Happy
> Hanukkah or put up decorations for the holiday, and I'm not getting in
> a lather about it. Come to think of it, they didn't do anything at the
> stores for Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, Purim, Pesach, Shavuot, or any of
> the other Jewish holidays, either. Of course some of this may be just
> because we haven't commercialized them and turned them into
> celebrations of conspicuous consumption... In any case, relax. It's
> really a tempest in a teapot, being sustained mostly by the very people
> you'd expect to oppose commercialization of their religion and
> religious holidays.
>
> Eliyahu
>

Phyllis Nilsson

2005-12-19, 10:56 am

Jesus didn't command us to drive cars to church either, but that doesn't
mean we shouldn't do it.

Eliyahu wrote:
For that matter, where is the commandment for Christians to celebrate
Xmas at all? (Book, chapter and
> verse, please.)

2005-12-19, 12:52 pm

Uh, they didn't have cars back then.

"Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:43A6E146.6020500@buckeye-express.com...
> Jesus didn't command us to drive cars to church either, but that doesn't
> mean we shouldn't do it.
>
> Eliyahu wrote:
> For that matter, where is the commandment for Christians to celebrate
> Xmas at all? (Book, chapter and
>

Phyllis Nilsson

2005-12-19, 12:52 pm

Since God is all-knowing, He knew there would be. There were no
denominations in His days on earth either. Is it wrong to have them now?

Su wrote:
> Uh, they didn't have cars back then.
>
>
> "Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
> news:43A6E146.6020500@buckeye-express.com...
>
>
>

jmorngstar@aol.com

2005-12-19, 12:52 pm

think you *totally* misunderstood what Janice wrote. Her not liking
WalMart has nothing to do with Merry Christmas, and she said so.

Thanks Kathy. My beef with Wal-Mart has absolutely nothing to do with
Christmas at all. That is almost funny.

I don't care what anyone says to me or doesn't say to me. My money
speaks for me. I try not to be a hypocrite and live in a community
where everyone is respected.

I just am so thankful to be alive in my community at this time.

Janice

Jeannie Wilson

2005-12-19, 12:52 pm

Phyllis Nilsson <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote here for all to
seenews:43A6F0C6.3070502@buckeye-express.com:

> Since God is all-knowing, He knew there would be. There were no
> denominations in His days on earth either. Is it wrong to have them now?

Oh, good Lord, Phyllis.

Phyllis Nilsson

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Yes, He is good.

Jeannie Wilson wrote:
> Phyllis Nilsson <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote here for all to
> seenews:43A6F0C6.3070502@buckeye-express.com:
>
>
>
>
> Oh, good Lord, Phyllis.

Eliyahu

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Do you consider driving a car to be an essential religious practice?
Since Protestants generally hold a position of "sole scripture" (the
Bible is the sole basis for doctrines and beliefs), those doctrines and
practices ought to have some reference therein. That's part of what
Martin Luther's reformation was about... (Roman Catholics hold that
papal decree and tradition also can be the basis for their doctrines,
so my question doesn't apply to them.)

Eliyahu

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Jesus didn't command us to drive cars to church either, but that doesn't
> mean we shouldn't do it.
>
> Eliyahu wrote:
> For that matter, where is the commandment for Christians to celebrate
> Xmas at all? (Book, chapter and

RaeMorrill

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

I think Jesus would have said drive cars to church, because he came down
on the "pin in the garment" type behaviors of the time. However, that's
a whole nother thing from humans making a day into a holy day when God
didn't authorize it.

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:
> Since God is all-knowing, He knew there would be. There were no
> denominations in His days on earth either. Is it wrong to have them now?
>
> Su wrote:
>
>

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Jeannie Wilson wrote:
> promoting HOLIDAY TREE ORNAMENTS, etc. If all of this was fabricated by
> Bill O'Reilly then it really got out of hand, didn't it, to cause so many
> big-time merchants to be fooled enough to spend money changing advertising
> campaigns at the last minute.

It almost sounds like the Johnny-Carson-inspired toilet paper shortage
of the 1980s. Anybody else remember that?

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Blupencl wrote:
> Our church is business as usual, except for maybe a little more joyous
> than usual this Sunday. Candlelight communion service Saturday, I
> guess.

Do you have a handbell choir? One thing I miss so very desperately from
when I was a Methodist was playing in the handbell choir at Christmas
and Easter.

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Su wrote:
> Uh, they didn't have cars back then.

*best innocent look* Oh, yes they did. It says so in one verses --
where all of Jesus's disciples were in one Accord. GD&RFC

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Eliyahu wrote:
> Since Protestants generally hold a position of "sole scripture" (the
> Bible is the sole basis for doctrines and beliefs), those doctrines and
> practices ought to have some reference therein.

The difference is that the Jewish people have the Talmud, the Mishna,
and the Gemara, where learned rabbis have already interpreted the
principles of the Torah for individual people to apply, whereas for
Christians each individual believer has the standing of a priest before
G-d (spelled as such in this case out of respect for your beliefs) and
the responsibility and privilege of interpreting and applying the
principles in the Scriptures for themself, hopefully based solely on the
leading of the Holy Spirit (hope that doesn't have to be altered; my
apologies if it does) in their life, which I do believe can lead people
in different ways and still be a valid application of the same principle.

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Yes!

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send" <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
message news:43a70e25$0$95943$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Jeannie Wilson wrote:
many[vbcol=seagreen]
advertising[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> It almost sounds like the Johnny-Carson-inspired toilet paper shortage
> of the 1980s. Anybody else remember that?

Susan Mitchell

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Now, Melinda, that was too funny!!

Dang, Honda's had the corner even
then!

--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medlawtrans@comcast.net)
"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send" <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
message news:43a70eb2$0$95943$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Su wrote:
>
> *best innocent look* Oh, yes they did. It says so in one verses --
> where all of Jesus's disciples were in one Accord. GD&RFC

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Where I live ... uh, yeah, for a lot of people they are.

"Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllisnilsson@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:43A6F0C6.3070502@buckeye-express.com...
> Since God is all-knowing, He knew there would be. There were no
> denominations in His days on earth either. Is it wrong to have them now?
>
> Su wrote:
>

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send" <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
message news:43a70eb2$0$95943$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Su wrote:
>
> *best innocent look* Oh, yes they did. It says so in one verses --
> where all of Jesus's disciples were in one Accord. GD&RFC

RaeMorrill

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

LOL

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send wrote:
> Su wrote:
>
>
>
> *best innocent look* Oh, yes they did. It says so in one verses --
> where all of Jesus's disciples were in one Accord. GD&RFC

Ed Chait

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send" <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
message news:43a7100f$0$95984$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Eliyahu wrote:
>
> The difference is that the Jewish people have the Talmud, the Mishna, and
> the Gemara, where learned rabbis have already interpreted the principles
> of the Torah for individual people to apply, whereas for Christians each
> individual believer has the standing of a priest before G-d (spelled as
> such in this case out of respect for your beliefs) and the responsibility
> and privilege of interpreting and applying the principles in the
> Scriptures for themself, hopefully based solely on the leading of the Holy
> Spirit (hope that doesn't have to be altered; my apologies if it does) in
> their life, which I do believe can lead people in different ways and still
> be a valid application of the same principle.

That was so well stated, thank you.

ed

Donna

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Jeannie Wilson <jwilson421@comcastspamkills.net> wrote in
news:Xns97318638ED011jwilson421comcastnet@216.196.97.136:

> Oh, good Lord, Phyllis.

LOL....Sorry, that was a good one.

--
~Donna~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is never too late to be what you might have been. - George Eliot
Hold on tight to your dream. - ELO
http://www.zensewing.com

Eliyahu

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send wrote:
> Eliyahu wrote:
>
> The difference is that the Jewish people have the Talmud, the Mishna,
> and the Gemara, where learned rabbis have already interpreted the
> principles of the Torah for individual people to apply, whereas for
> Christians each individual believer has the standing of a priest before
> G-d (spelled as such in this case out of respect for your beliefs) and
> the responsibility and privilege of interpreting and applying the
> principles in the Scriptures for themself, hopefully based solely on the
> leading of the Holy Spirit (hope that doesn't have to be altered; my
> apologies if it does) in their life, which I do believe can lead people
> in different ways and still be a valid application of the same principle.

In other words, there's no actual scriptural basis for celebrating
Xmas, but you're allowed to create your own doctrines and beliefs if
the Holy Spirit tells you to. Or do I misunderstand?

Eliyahu

Bam

2005-12-19, 5:55 pm

Yes, but I relied on them to keep me informed of which topic the prez was
evading hardest!!!!

(I've actually been getting my US news funneled to me from Europe... it's
much more true! LOL!)

"Barbara Carlson" <bbcarlson@snappydsl.net> wrote in message
news:qrWdnSpzbOChQzjenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@snappydsl.net...
> I quit their channel long before this nonsense!
>
> Barb C.
> "Bam" <dearcounselor@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:40lm69F1b6onlU1@individual.net...
Olbermann:[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-20, 12:56 am

Susan Mitchell wrote:
> Now, Melinda, that was too funny!!

Dang, Honda's had the corner even
> then!

That's an old, OLD joke.

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send

2005-12-20, 12:56 am

Eliyahu wrote:
>
> In other words, there's no actual scriptural basis for celebrating
> Xmas, but you're allowed to create your own doctrines and beliefs if
> the Holy Spirit tells you to. Or do I misunderstand?

That's not what I meant. Observing Christmas is not a doctrine, but if
you feel in your heart that observing Christmas is not a Christianized
pagan ritual but simply taking a day to focus on Christ's birth and how
the world is different because He came, there is nothing prohibiting you
from doing so, but if you feel it is a Christianized pagan ritual and
don't want to have much of anything to do with it because its pagan
origins make you uncomfortable, you can legitimately refrain from
observing it.

This principle was clearly stated in the NT where it talks about eating
meat that had been sacrificed to pagan idols and talking about people
who observe some days as more holy than others (verses available on
request), and it's not creating your own