Dentistry - Was the work Really Necessary/Was it Done?

Author

Was the work Really Necessary/Was it Done?

sweettart

2006-09-21, 4:22 pm

How does one know if the treatment recommended by their dentist is really
necessary. Also, how would one know whether the work they said they did was
really done?

Mark & Steven Bornfeld

2006-09-21, 4:22 pm

sweettart wrote:

> How does one know if the treatment recommended by their dentist is really
> necessary. Also, how would one know whether the work they said they did was
> really done?
>

Consult another dentist.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

sweettart

2006-09-21, 4:22 pm

Consulting another dentist is easier said than done.

Also, how does one know if the work the dentist said they performed was
really done?

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> Consult another dentist.
>
>Steve
>

Mark & Steven Bornfeld

2006-09-21, 4:22 pm

sweettart wrote:

> Consulting another dentist is easier said than done.
>
> Also, how does one know if the work the dentist said they performed was
> really done?

I wasn't trying to be facetious. There isn't any practical way for you
to evaluate dentistry on your own. You will know if it hurts, you will
know if something falls out.
Even another dentist will not be able to tell after the fact if
restorative treatment (no matter how nicely done) was necessary, unless
(and sometimes not even if) pre-operative x-rays are provided.

Steve

>
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>
>

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

sweettart

2006-09-21, 4:22 pm

Can you tell me what the usual and customary fee for Guided Tissue
Regeneration is?

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> I wasn't trying to be facetious. There isn't any practical way for you
>to evaluate dentistry on your own. You will know if it hurts, you will
>know if something falls out.
> Even another dentist will not be able to tell after the fact if
>restorative treatment (no matter how nicely done) was necessary, unless
>(and sometimes not even if) pre-operative x-rays are provided.
>
>Steve
>
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>

Mark & Steven Bornfeld

2006-09-21, 9:27 pm

sweettart wrote:

> Can you tell me what the usual and customary fee for Guided Tissue
> Regeneration is?

UCR fees (usual, customary and reasonable) are terms used by insurance
companies to determine limits of coverage. It is defined as the 90th
percentile for a given area, but insurance companies are notorious for
using UCR tables that are woefully out of date.
As far as guided tissue regeneration (GTR), this is a procedure done
primarily by periodontists, so I'm not familiar with typical fees. I
would imagine it would vary widely, depending upon how many teeth are
involved, whether bony grafts are used, etc. As such, while I'm sure
insurance companies have a figure (they tend to keep these figures a
deep dark secret, btw), they really aren't useful to patients, I'm
afraid--there are really just too many variables to the procedure.

Steve
>
>
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

catherine.combs@gmail.com

2006-09-22, 4:23 pm

sweettart wrote:
> Consulting another dentist is easier said than done.
>
____________________________

Is that because you are in a rural area with only one dentist?

In most urban and suburban regions, there are many dentists who would
be able to render a second opinion.

- dentaldoc

sweettart via MedKB.com

2006-09-22, 9:24 pm

I do not live in a rural area. I cannot just go to another dentist for a
second opinion, I must change dentists through my insurance company. Why
should I have to go through this? The reason I am so skeptical is that
the insurance company I am with does not require the dentist to submit for
approval x-rays,a written description of the patient's dental issues, or
her/his treatment plan. They require NOTHING. The dentist just just gets
paid by them to have me as a patient and she/he can do whatever she/he
pleases. As the consumer, I find this outrageous! To no avail, I have
searched and searched (even with my local and the national dental association)
for a list of fees charged for dental services in my area;a range would
suffice. Am I being robbed? Feeling skeptical.

catherine.combs@gmail.com wrote:
>
>____________________________
>
>Is that because you are in a rural area with only one dentist?
>
>In most urban and suburban regions, there are many dentists who would
>be able to render a second opinion.
>
>- dentaldoc

--
Message posted via MedKB.com
http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/dentistry/200609/1

Steven Bornfeld

2006-09-22, 9:24 pm

sweettart via MedKB.com wrote:
> I do not live in a rural area. I cannot just go to another dentist for a
> second opinion, I must change dentists through my insurance company. Why
> should I have to go through this? The reason I am so skeptical is that
> the insurance company I am with does not require the dentist to submit for
> approval x-rays,a written description of the patient's dental issues, or
> her/his treatment plan. They require NOTHING. The dentist just just gets
> paid by them to have me as a patient and she/he can do whatever she/he
> pleases. As the consumer, I find this outrageous! To no avail, I have
> searched and searched (even with my local and the national dental association)
> for a list of fees charged for dental services in my area;a range would
> suffice. Am I being robbed? Feeling skeptical.

It is of course possible that your dentist is substandard; however,
insurance companies should NEVER be depended on to determine the
appropriateness of treatment. In fact, many policies will explicitly
say that their decision not to provide a benefit is NOT a judgement of
the appropriateness of care; it is only a judgement as to whether a
service is eligible for benefits according to the provisions of the
particular insurance contract.

Steve

>
>
> catherine.combs@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>

Bill

2006-09-23, 4:23 pm

sweettart via MedKB.com wrote:
> I do not live in a rural area. I cannot just go to another dentist for a
> second opinion, I must change dentists through my insurance company.

Yes, you can just go to another dentist! Your "insurance" won't pay for
it, that's all.
(I put the word "insurance" in quotes because it appears that you don't
have real dental indemnity insurance, but have a capitation-type
"dental plan" instead.)

If your "insurance" were to give you a couple of cheap coupons for a
couple of hamburgers at your local McDonald's, that would NOT mean you
"can't" go to another restaurant for the rest of your life. You can go
to another restaurant any time you like.

People go to restaurants all the time without expecting the insurance
to pay for it, and people go to dentists the same way too.

And when you look at the costs, people spend more money for food than
they do for dentistry -- so why is there "dental insurance," but not
"food insurance?" Maybe food insurance would be more logical than
dental insurance, because food costs MORE than dentistry.

> Why hould I have to go through this? The reason I am so skeptical is that
> the insurance company I am with does not require the dentist to submit for
> approval x-rays,a written description of the patient's dental issues, or
> her/his treatment plan. They require NOTHING. The dentist just just gets
> paid by them to have me as a patient and she/he can do whatever she/he
> pleases. As the consumer, I find this outrageous!

I agree, it is outrageous! But that's what the "insurance" company
wants to do, and if you agree to subject yourself to the whims of a
far-away company instead of just buying what you really want, then
that's what you have to put up with.

Best regards,
dentaldoc

sweettart via MedKB.com

2006-09-24, 2:26 am

Bill, you just don't get it, do you? You're obviously not the consumer.

Bill wrote:
>
>Yes, you can just go to another dentist! Your "insurance" won't pay for
>it, that's all.
>(I put the word "insurance" in quotes because it appears that you don't
>have real dental indemnity insurance, but have a capitation-type
>"dental plan" instead.)
>
>If your "insurance" were to give you a couple of cheap coupons for a
>couple of hamburgers at your local McDonald's, that would NOT mean you
>"can't" go to another restaurant for the rest of your life. You can go
>to another restaurant any time you like.
>
>People go to restaurants all the time without expecting the insurance
>to pay for it, and people go to dentists the same way too.
>
>And when you look at the costs, people spend more money for food than
>they do for dentistry -- so why is there "dental insurance," but not
>"food insurance?" Maybe food insurance would be more logical than
>dental insurance, because food costs MORE than dentistry.
>
>
>I agree, it is outrageous! But that's what the "insurance" company
>wants to do, and if you agree to subject yourself to the whims of a
>far-away company instead of just buying what you really want, then
>that's what you have to put up with.
>
>Best regards,
>dentaldoc

--
Message posted via http://www.medkb.com

AdvanceAgent

2006-09-24, 8:22 am

Don't ever trust the insurance to make your dental decision. They are
only concern about making money, and they are not responsible for their
recommendation. They always recommend the cheapest treatment, which
may not be your best choice.

Getting a 2nd opinion from another dentist is the only way, if you
don't trust your current dentist. If you don't trust your current
dentist, you probably should change. Get recommendation from your
friends or relatives. Dentist they have seen and like.

Don't go to a dentist you don't trust. It's not going to work out.

[AdvanceAgent #367924]

Games I am currently playing:
http://uc.gamestotal.com/?in=367924

Steven Bornfeld wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> sweettart via MedKB.com wrote:
>
>
> It is of course possible that your dentist is substandard; however,
> insurance companies should NEVER be depended on to determine the
> appropriateness of treatment. In fact, many policies will explicitly
> say that their decision not to provide a benefit is NOT a judgement of
> the appropriateness of care; it is only a judgement as to whether a
> service is eligible for benefits according to the provisions of the
> particular insurance contract.
>
> Steve
>

sweettart via MedKB.com

2006-09-24, 4:22 pm

AdvanceAgent,

It's not that I don't trust this particular dentist, I don't trust any of
them. I don't have the information to know what is a reasonable fee for each
procedure and I don't have the knowledge to know whether I really need that
procedure or not.

AdvanceAgent wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
>Don't ever trust the insurance to make your dental decision. They are
>only concern about making money, and they are not responsible for their
>recommendation. They always recommend the cheapest treatment, which
>may not be your best choice.
>
>Getting a 2nd opinion from another dentist is the only way, if you
>don't trust your current dentist. If you don't trust your current
>dentist, you probably should change. Get recommendation from your
>friends or relatives. Dentist they have seen and like.
>
>Don't go to a dentist you don't trust. It's not going to work out.
>
>[AdvanceAgent #367924]
>
>Games I am currently playing:
>http://uc.gamestotal.com/?in=367924
>
>[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]

--
Message posted via http://www.medkb.com

AdvanceAgent

2006-09-25, 2:26 am

For price, you can locate your local dental association to find out the
average fee charge by dentist around your area. You can find out your
local dental associate by contacting www.ada.org

You can do reseach on the web to see what's the common treatment for
the problem you have. I always like to offer my patients different
treatment options, and let them know my recommendation. I wll also
explain why I recommend that particular treatment.

[AdvanceAgent #367924]

Games I am currently playing:
http://uc.gamestotal.com/?in=367924

sweettart via MedKB.com wrote:
> AdvanceAgent,
>
> It's not that I don't trust this particular dentist, I don't trust any of
> them. I don't have the information to know what is a reasonable fee for each
> procedure and I don't have the knowledge to know whether I really need that
> procedure or not.
>
> AdvanceAgent wrote:
>
> --
> Message posted via http://www.medkb.com

Bill

2006-09-25, 4:23 pm

sweettart via MedKB.com wrote:
> Bill, you just don't get it, do you? You're obviously not the consumer.
>

Oh, I do get it, indeed. The insurance companies try to make you think
that THEY are in charge of your dental health. In fact, they are really
there only for their own profits, not for your dental health.

The insurance companies would like you to think that THEY make all the
decisions. Their attitude is so pervasive that in your own message, you
related how you "must" go through the insurance company to change
dentists.

There is no "must" about it. You can switch dentists any time you want.
The insurance company does not own you.

You can see any other dentist, pay his fee, and get a second opinion
regarding both the necessity of the treatment, and its cost. No
insurance company can stop you from exercising your own control over
your own dental health.

- dentaldoc

AdvanceAgent

2006-09-26, 4:26 pm

Insurance companies have really come inbetween and interfere with the
doctor-patient relationship. Patients have now been brainwashed into
thinking procedures are not necessary if it is not covered by
insurance.

They have, in many cases, suceeded in dicating treatments. And they
can not be sued! At least if a doctor made a mistake he/she can get
sued. There is no accountability with insurance company.

They serve a purpose by making insurance more affordable so more people
can be insured, but do not think they are making decision to your
benefit.

People & politicians always complain about medical cost rising every
year. All the blame go to doctors. No one seems to notice that
insurance companies' profits are rising every year. They are rising
faster than doctor's fee, which are control by the insurance now a day.

Politicians won't attack insurance companies because their are big
political donors.

Anyway, the point is. Listen to the options offered by your doctor and
make the decision that's best for you. Don't let insurance coverage
influence your decision.

[AdvanceAgent #367924]

Games I am currently playing:
http://uc.gamestotal.com/?in=367924

Bill wrote:
> sweettart via MedKB.com wrote:
>
> Oh, I do get it, indeed. The insurance companies try to make you think
> that THEY are in charge of your dental health. In fact, they are really
> there only for their own profits, not for your dental health.
>
> The insurance companies would like you to think that THEY make all the
> decisions. Their attitude is so pervasive that in your own message, you
> related how you "must" go through the insurance company to change
> dentists.
>
> There is no "must" about it. You can switch dentists any time you want.
> The insurance company does not own you.
>
> You can see any other dentist, pay his fee, and get a second opinion
> regarding both the necessity of the treatment, and its cost. No
> insurance company can stop you from exercising your own control over
> your own dental health.
>
> - dentaldoc

sweettart via MedKB.com

2006-09-28, 9:23 pm

Thank you ALL for your input. You've been very helpful.

AdvanceAgent wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
>Insurance companies have really come inbetween and interfere with the
>doctor-patient relationship. Patients have now been brainwashed into
>thinking procedures are not necessary if it is not covered by
>insurance.
>
>They have, in many cases, suceeded in dicating treatments. And they
>can not be sued! At least if a doctor made a mistake he/she can get
>sued. There is no accountability with insurance company.
>
>They serve a purpose by making insurance more affordable so more people
>can be insured, but do not think they are making decision to your
>benefit.
>
>People & politicians always complain about medical cost rising every
>year. All the blame go to doctors. No one seems to notice that
>insurance companies' profits are rising every year. They are rising
>faster than doctor's fee, which are control by the insurance now a day.
>
>Politicians won't attack insurance companies because their are big
>political donors.
>
>Anyway, the point is. Listen to the options offered by your doctor and
>make the decision that's best for you. Don't let insurance coverage
>influence your decision.
>
>[AdvanceAgent #367924]
>
>Games I am currently playing:
>http://uc.gamestotal.com/?in=367924
>
>[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]

--
Message posted via http://www.medkb.com

Jeffrey Krantz

2006-09-30, 2:26 am

NO dear, Bill does get it.
When a patient signs up for this kind of plan, the doctor is paid a coupdl
of dollars a month to see the patient. For the 30 cents on the dollar fee
[if he is lucky] the patient is not going to have the doctor do a ton of
paperwork, and approvals.
THE INSURANCE [???] pays for nothing, and this patient is upset because of
the co-payments which is all the doctor is going to get for whatever he is
prescribing for the patient.
IF the patient wants to get a second opinion, he is welcome to it. BUt of
course the patient does not want to pay for it.
Did I GET IT???
"sweettart via MedKB.com" <u26959@uwe> wrote in message
news:66c0959fb3aea@uwe...
> Bill, you just don't get it, do you? You're obviously not the consumer.
>
> Bill wrote:
>
> --
> Message posted via http://www.medkb.com
>