| Author |
diet soda vs sugared soda
|
|
| James H White 2005-12-22, 10:54 am |
| Hello.
I'm wondering if anyone here can clear this up as there seems to be some
controversy over the subject.
But what is it within regular 'Cola' drinks that causes the tooth decay
Is it:-
1) The sugar not the acid. The sugar sticks to the teeth, then bacteria
living within the plaque on the teeth metabolise it steadily producing an
acid, like a factory, around the tooth that then erodes the enamel.
2) Or is it the acid within the drink in the form of phosphoric and carbolic
(I think the CO2 reacts with the water to form this acid) I know that Cola
drinks are pretty acidic with a Ph of around 4. Some claim it is this rather
than the sugar that causes the bulk of the damage. Others maintain that the
acid within the drinks don't stick to the teeth and are quickly swallowed
and any lingering acidity is quickly neutralised by saliva. Unlike the acid
produced by the bacteria in plaque as a by-product of metabolising sugar.
This acid is highly localised around the teeth and is constantly being
generated until all the sugar has been used.
Which scenario is correct, if any, and if both play a part how are they
rated i.e is it the phosphoric acid that does 90% and the
sugar-bacteria-acid pathway that does the remaining 10% etc?
Thanks.
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-22, 10:54 am |
| I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid
doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet
soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by
bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to
the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the
manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more
damage to his teeth.
George
| |
| Amatus Cremona 2005-12-22, 12:52 pm |
| Sugar is metabolized into an acid in the final steps of the biochemical
metabolism by bacteria. Sugar is also converted into sticky glyco-proteins
which stick to the side to the tooth very well. Now you saturate that
glyco-protein with potent acid and the decay occurs even faster than it
would in the presence of sugar alone. Do you know why aqua regia is more
potent than either nitric acid or hydrochloric acid? Do you know that soda
have 3-5 acids mixed in each one?
--
/
Amatus
/
"George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135260100.038904.31940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid
> doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet
> soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by
> bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to
> the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the
> manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more
> damage to his teeth.
>
> George
>
| |
| Peter Meiers 2005-12-22, 12:52 pm |
|
Hmmm, what is the difference between decay and erosion?
IŽd say, the _acid_ contained in the soda/cola will contribute to
erosion (dissolution of enamel from whole tooth surfaces) while _sugar_
will be metabolized locally at a small part of a tooth surface by plague
bacteria, which thereby slowly create a hole (decay). These (certain
types of) bacteria themselves have to be able to survive in the acidic
environment they create.
Peter
-----------------------------------
Amatus Cremona schrieb:[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Sugar is metabolized into an acid in the final steps of the biochemical
> metabolism by bacteria. Sugar is also converted into sticky glyco-proteins
> which stick to the side to the tooth very well. Now you saturate that
> glyco-protein with potent acid and the decay occurs even faster than it
> would in the presence of sugar alone. Do you know why aqua regia is more
> potent than either nitric acid or hydrochloric acid? Do you know that soda
> have 3-5 acids mixed in each one?
>
> --
> /
>
> Amatus
>
> /
> "George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135260100.038904.31940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| |
| Amatus Cremona 2005-12-22, 12:52 pm |
| Dental decay is a type of erosion
--
/
Amatus
/
"Peter Meiers" <Tren_Dean@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43AAEF71.9DE189D0@yahoo.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Hmmm, what is the difference between decay and erosion?
>
> IŽd say, the _acid_ contained in the soda/cola will contribute to
> erosion (dissolution of enamel from whole tooth surfaces) while _sugar_
> will be metabolized locally at a small part of a tooth surface by plague
> bacteria, which thereby slowly create a hole (decay). These (certain
> types of) bacteria themselves have to be able to survive in the acidic
> environment they create.
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
> -----------------------------------
> Amatus Cremona schrieb:
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-22, 5:54 pm |
| Hi Peter, loss of tooth tissue can generally be divided into carious
and noncarious tooth defects.
Caries is tooth decay, which needs bacteria to colonise the teeth and
produce acid, hence it is actually a bacterial disease. Plaque-free
teeth cannot decay.
Noncarious defects include everything else, commonly abrasions,
abfractions, fractures, erosions etc. Erosion is specifically the loss
of hard tooth tissue due to chemomechanical action that does not
involve bacteria. It can be caused by acid reflux, taking acidic
medicines long-term and drinking loads of acidic drinks.
Erosions are generally not as invasive as decay; if the cause is
removed then the process will stop, unlike decay, where the infected
dental tissues must be manually removed in order for the destructive
process to halt. Erosions can cause both cosmetic and functional
problems (sensitivity etc). The teeth affected will depend on the cause
of the erosion, eg acid reflux will usually affect lingual and palatal
surfaces, sucking lemons will affect the facial surface of anterior
teeth etc.
I second Amatus in that a mixture of acid and sugar working together is
a killer combination.
| |
| Mark & Steven Bornfeld 2005-12-22, 5:54 pm |
| Peter Meiers wrote:
> Hmmm, what is the difference between decay and erosion?
As the term is generally applied, erosion is a surface phenomenon
characterized by loss of tooth structure characterized by
demineralization and wear. Decay is a bacterial phenomenon; it is also
characterized by demineralization, but significant structural loss is
due to undermining of enamel by destruction of dentin underneath. There
is invasion of the dentinal tubules by the bacteria, and the
demineralization occurs behind the advancing front of bacterial invasion.
Because the primary etiology is different, the lesions will look
different and will present in different patterns and locations.
Steve[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> IŽd say, the _acid_ contained in the soda/cola will contribute to
> erosion (dissolution of enamel from whole tooth surfaces) while _sugar_
> will be metabolized locally at a small part of a tooth surface by plague
> bacteria, which thereby slowly create a hole (decay). These (certain
> types of) bacteria themselves have to be able to survive in the acidic
> environment they create.
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
> -----------------------------------
> Amatus Cremona schrieb:
>
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
| |
| Mark & Steven Bornfeld 2005-12-22, 5:54 pm |
| George Chatzipetros wrote:
> Hi Peter, loss of tooth tissue can generally be divided into carious
> and noncarious tooth defects.
> Caries is tooth decay, which needs bacteria to colonise the teeth and
> produce acid, hence it is actually a bacterial disease. Plaque-free
> teeth cannot decay.
> Noncarious defects include everything else, commonly abrasions,
> abfractions, fractures, erosions etc. Erosion is specifically the loss
> of hard tooth tissue due to chemomechanical action that does not
> involve bacteria. It can be caused by acid reflux, taking acidic
> medicines long-term and drinking loads of acidic drinks.
> Erosions are generally not as invasive as decay; if the cause is
> removed then the process will stop, unlike decay, where the infected
> dental tissues must be manually removed in order for the destructive
> process to halt. Erosions can cause both cosmetic and functional
> problems (sensitivity etc). The teeth affected will depend on the cause
> of the erosion, eg acid reflux will usually affect lingual and palatal
> surfaces, sucking lemons will affect the facial surface of anterior
> teeth etc.
> I second Amatus in that a mixture of acid and sugar working together is
> a killer combination.
>
Thanks--more complete explanation than mine!
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
| |
|
| See the following:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum
"James H White" <notreahgh6@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:43aa8bd4$0$23282$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> Hello.
> I'm wondering if anyone here can clear this up as there seems to be some
> controversy over the subject.
> But what is it within regular 'Cola' drinks that causes the tooth decay
> Is it:-
> 1) The sugar not the acid. The sugar sticks to the teeth, then bacteria
> living within the plaque on the teeth metabolise it steadily producing an
> acid, like a factory, around the tooth that then erodes the enamel.
> 2) Or is it the acid within the drink in the form of phosphoric and
> carbolic (I think the CO2 reacts with the water to form this acid) I know
> that Cola drinks are pretty acidic with a Ph of around 4. Some claim it is
> this rather than the sugar that causes the bulk of the damage. Others
> maintain that the acid within the drinks don't stick to the teeth and are
> quickly swallowed and any lingering acidity is quickly neutralised by
> saliva. Unlike the acid produced by the bacteria in plaque as a by-product
> of metabolising sugar. This acid is highly localised around the teeth and
> is constantly being generated until all the sugar has been used.
>
> Which scenario is correct, if any, and if both play a part how are they
> rated i.e is it the phosphoric acid that does 90% and the
> sugar-bacteria-acid pathway that does the remaining 10% etc?
> Thanks.
>
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-23, 10:53 am |
| It's too bad they don't list results and conclusion. Do you know what
they ended up with?
George
| |
|
| You would have to pull the actual paper to know. I have not done so, but I
did read a study sometime ago that found that A&W rootbeer was the least
harmful to teeth as compared to all sorts of sodas and tea. Tea was among
the worst and so were the lemon-lime type drinks. If I can pull the paper, I
will let you know.
"George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135344850.830697.36220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It's too bad they don't list results and conclusion. Do you know what
> they ended up with?
>
> George
>
| |
| Amatus Cremona 2005-12-23, 10:54 am |
| I have that full study scanned on my hard drive if you want to read it.
--
/
Amatus
/
"George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135344850.830697.36220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It's too bad they don't list results and conclusion. Do you know what
> they ended up with?
>
> George
>
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-23, 12:51 pm |
| Oh cheers mate,
Can you please send it to groundtwenty@yahoo.gr , or suggest an
alternative method of getting it from you if that's not convenient.
George
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-23, 12:51 pm |
| Well that explains a lot.
Tea + NHS = British teeth screwed for life
George
| |
| Amatus Cremona 2005-12-26, 5:54 pm |
| Just saw two of my UK patients this morning. They save their dental
treatment for when they are in the USA. Says something about the NHS ?
--
/
Amatus
/
"George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135361456.103424.23670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Well that explains a lot.
>
> Tea + NHS = British teeth screwed for life
>
> George
>
>
| |
| Amatus Cremona 2005-12-26, 5:54 pm |
| Please delete files after reading.
--
/
Amatus
/
"George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135361380.075859.314240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Oh cheers mate,
>
> Can you please send it to groundtwenty@yahoo.gr , or suggest an
> alternative method of getting it from you if that's not convenient.
>
> George
>
>
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-26, 5:54 pm |
|
Amatus Cremona wrote:
> Please delete files after reading.
Won't they self-destruct after 10 seconds? 
Thanks mate, you rock!
George
| |
| Amatus Cremona 2005-12-26, 5:54 pm |
| I had to reduce the image size. I assume you can still read them ?
--
/
Amatus
/
"George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135636633.043258.207810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Amatus Cremona wrote:
>
> Won't they self-destruct after 10 seconds?
>
> Thanks mate, you rock!
>
> George
>
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-27, 10:51 am |
| I can read the conclusions barely. That's ok by me!
George
| |
| Amatus Cremona 2005-12-27, 12:51 pm |
| I can re-send larger files. Tell me which ones you need and how big a file
your ISP will allow.
--
/
Amatus
/
"George Chatzipetros" <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135695815.145962.6440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I can read the conclusions barely. That's ok by me!
>
> George
>
| |
| Stovepipe 2005-12-28, 12:56 am |
| George Chatzipetros <chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid
> doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet
> soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by
> bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to
> the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the
> manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more
> damage to his teeth.
>
> George
Same as those pub boys who take two Guiness all night long but swish
each mouthfull 'round in their mouths for minutes on end...
SP
--
Take out the TRAASH to reply
| |
| George Chatzipetros 2005-12-28, 10:53 am |
| It's ok, Marianne send me the article with soft drinks. Thanks anyway.
George
| |
| Whamatus_B 2005-12-30, 5:54 pm |
| On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:24:49 +0100, Peter Meiers <Tren_Dean@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>while _sugar_
>will be metabolized locally at a small part of a tooth surface by plague
>bacteria,
Would that be Bubonic or Pneumonic ?
--
Whamatus
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
| |
| Whamatus_B 2005-12-30, 5:54 pm |
| On 22 Dec 2005 11:17:32 -0800, "George Chatzipetros"
<chpetros@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I second Amatus in that a mixture of acid and sugar working together is
>a killer combination.
But I say a nice snifter of single malt is much better.
--
Whamatus
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
| |
| Peter Meiers 2005-12-31, 12:53 pm |
|
Whamatus_B schrieb:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:24:49 +0100, Peter Meiers <Tren_Dean@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Would that be Bubonic or Pneumonic ?
Anaerobic (under cover) ?
---
History of fluorine, fluoride, and fluoridation:
http://www.fluoride-history.de/index.htm
---
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