Drugs pot - Father to hang for being drunk

Author

Father to hang for being drunk

Phil Stovell

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

This is absolutely horrific and barbaric.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...18/wiran118.xml

Father to hang for being drunk

By Lillian Swift and Alexandra Williams (Filed: 18/12/2005)

A 32-year-old father of two is to be hanged in Iran after his death
sentence for being found guilty of "alcohol consumption" was upheld by the
country's highest court.

Karim Fahimi, 32, is due to be put to death "any day" in what Amnesty
International believes is the first instance of a man facing capital
punishment for public intoxication. The sentence was passed on June 5 by
an Islamic court after he was accused of being drunk on several occasions.

It was then upheld by the Supreme Court, the highest judicial authority in
the country. Under Iran's strict religious law, imposed after the 1979
Islamic revolution, Muslims are forbidden from taking any intoxicant. The
standard sentence for alcohol consumption is 100 lashes. This punishment
may be handed down twice but a third conviction carries the death penalty.

Mr Fahimi, an ethnic Kurd who has two sons aged six and 10, was sentenced
in the city of Sardasht in western Iran. Amnesty International, which has
launched a campaign to save Mr Fahimi, has recorded 77 executions in Iran
this year, although the true figure is believed to be much higher. Last
year there were 159 executions in Iran, the second highest figure after
China.

A spokesman said: "We have no records of executions specifically for
alcohol consumption. This is a horrifying case and we are making every
effort to get the authorities to commute this sentence."

Mr Fahimi's brother Rahim told the Sunday Telegraph: "The previous times
my brother was sentenced to lashes but this time they [the Basij militia,
who act as morality police] said that Karim had been arrested and would
most probably be sentenced to death.

"Karim made the mistake of drinking heavily and then going out on the
streets very drunk. I think his drunken public behaviour upset a few of
the residents, and that's what got him into trouble.

"His wife and kids are now staying at my house. The children do not know
that their father is being convicted of drunkenness, but they do know he
may not be with us any more.

"Any lawyer we have had for Karim has been useless. It is very difficult
to get good legal representation if you have no money."

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

Save Gales Brewery
http://www.savegales.org.uk/

mrcheerful

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

Dave Turner

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

> what is the problem?
A XXXXed up anti-human law?

japhet

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

"Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.19.09.08.19.523298@stovell.org.uk...
> This is absolutely horrific and barbaric.
>
>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...18/wiran118.xml
>
> Father to hang for being drunk
>
> By Lillian Swift and Alexandra Williams (Filed: 18/12/2005)
>
> A 32-year-old father of two is to be hanged in Iran after his death
> sentence for being found guilty of "alcohol consumption" was upheld by the
> country's highest court.
>
> Karim Fahimi, 32, is due to be put to death "any day" in what Amnesty
> International believes is the first instance of a man facing capital
> punishment for public intoxication. The sentence was passed on June 5 by
> an Islamic court after he was accused of being drunk on several occasions.
>
> It was then upheld by the Supreme Court, the highest judicial authority in
> the country. Under Iran's strict religious law, imposed after the 1979
> Islamic revolution, Muslims are forbidden from taking any intoxicant. The
> standard sentence for alcohol consumption is 100 lashes. This punishment
> may be handed down twice but a third conviction carries the death penalty.
>
> Mr Fahimi, an ethnic Kurd who has two sons aged six and 10, was sentenced
> in the city of Sardasht in western Iran. Amnesty International, which has
> launched a campaign to save Mr Fahimi, has recorded 77 executions in Iran
> this year, although the true figure is believed to be much higher. Last
> year there were 159 executions in Iran, the second highest figure after
> China.
>
> A spokesman said: "We have no records of executions specifically for
> alcohol consumption. This is a horrifying case and we are making every
> effort to get the authorities to commute this sentence."
>
> Mr Fahimi's brother Rahim told the Sunday Telegraph: "The previous times
> my brother was sentenced to lashes but this time they [the Basij militia,
> who act as morality police] said that Karim had been arrested and would
> most probably be sentenced to death.
>
> "Karim made the mistake of drinking heavily and then going out on the
> streets very drunk. I think his drunken public behaviour upset a few of
> the residents, and that's what got him into trouble.
>
> "His wife and kids are now staying at my house. The children do not know
> that their father is being convicted of drunkenness, but they do know he
> may not be with us any more.
>
> "Any lawyer we have had for Karim has been useless. It is very difficult
> to get good legal representation if you have no money."
>
> --
> Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK
>
> Save Gales Brewery
> http://www.savegales.org.uk/

This is one of the greatest honours, to die for your god,
however undeserving.

finis coronat opus

mrcheerful

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

"Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote in message news:43a68597@quokka.wn.com.au...
> A XXXXed up anti-human law?
>

So campaign to get the law changed, don't break the law before it is
changed.

mrcheerful

Clough

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:08:22 +0000, Phil Stovell <phil@stovell.org.uk>
wrote:

>This is absolutely horrific and barbaric.

The death penalty is barbaric, but it was his third conviction for
using illegal drugs. The law must be upheld if the scourge of drugs is
to be successfully fought, although his penalty should be commuted to
life imprisonment.

Clough

Clough

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:00:21 GMT, "mrcheerful
.." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote:

>he knew of the law and chose to ignore it, what is the problem?

The probelm is the sentence. It is a barbaric sentence and deserving
of criticism, but surely the penalty for a drug user should be prison
and compulsory treatment rather than hanging. Although I do know that
drug users are amongst the most unpopular members of society.

Clough

Clough

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:08:04 +0800, "Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
>A XXXXed up anti-human law?

What would you suggest should be done with drug users?

Clough

Rockette the Mighty Assfuckah

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

That's a lot of crap. How does 'upholding the [dumbass] law' enable the
drug problem to be 'successfully fought'?

2005-12-19, 10:54 am

"Rockette the Mighty AssXXXXah" <jillbreastow@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1134990015.859879.315790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> That's a lot of crap. How does 'upholding the [dumbass] law' enable the
> drug problem to be 'successfully fought'?
>

Well, it shows people that they can't break the law with impunity. For
example, if the law against robbery wasn't upheld, people wouldn't be
discouraged from robbing someone by the legal consequences.

Mr X

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

In article <c6wpf.11536$iz3.10348@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
mrcheerful
.. <nbkm57@hotmail.com> writes

>
>"Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote in message news:43a68597@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
>So campaign to get the law changed, don't break the law before it is
>changed.
>
>mrcheerful

Yeah, go to Iran and tell them you've come to bring them Western justice
and offer them some Western democracy free-of-charge

I'm sure you'll get a very warm reception.

If and when you manage to escape, please come back and tell us how you
got on. Good luck!
--
Mr X

Shaun aRe

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:t44dq1d2j07s59ttvcf5g3bsfr59bshhd5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:00:21 GMT, "mrcheerful
> ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The probelm is the sentence. It is a barbaric sentence and deserving
> of criticism, but surely the penalty for a drug user should be prison
> and compulsory treatment rather than hanging. Although I do know that
> drug users are amongst the most unpopular members of society.

You are a drug user Clough.

Shaun aRe

Harry the Horse

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6wpf.11536$iz3.10348@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote in message
> news:43a68597@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> So campaign to get the law changed, don't break the law before it is
> changed.
>
And we wonder how millions of people can be exterminated whilst ostensibly
'ordinary, decent and law abiding' people look on and do nothing.

martin

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

Rockette the Mighty AssXXXXah wrote:
> That's a lot of crap. How does 'upholding the [dumbass] law' enable the
> drug problem to be 'successfully fought'?

I don't see how it doesn't help fight the problem. Hang enough of the
users and the dealers would go out of business too.

JAF

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:00:21 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote:

>he knew of the law and chose to ignore it, what is the problem?
>
>mrcheerful

The problem here appears to be that you are too stupid to live.
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
Breakfast of Champions -
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/anarch/duckwind.html

Phil Stovell

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:43:26 +0100, tw wrote:

>
> "Rockette the Mighty AssXXXXah" <jillbreastow@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:1134990015.859879.315790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Well, it shows people that they can't break the law with impunity. For
> example, if the law against robbery wasn't upheld, people wouldn't be
> discouraged from robbing someone by the legal consequences.

How can you equate taking drugs, which, unless you go loopy, affects no
others, with robbery, which always has a unwilling victim?

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

Save Gales Brewery
http://www.savegales.org.uk/

gonzo

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6wpf.11536$iz3.10348@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote in message
news:43a68597@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> So campaign to get the law changed, don't break the law before it is
> changed.
>
> mrcheerful
>
>
they hang teenage girls too -
"On Sunday August 15, 2004, a 16 year old girl by the name of Atefe Rajabi,
daughter of Ghassem Rajabi, was executed in the town of Neka, located in the
province of Mazandaran, for "engaging in acts incompatible with chastity".
The execution was carried out by the order of Neka's "judicial
administrator" and was approved by both the Supreme Court of the Islamic
Republic and the chief of the nation's "judiciary branch."

Although according to her birth certificate she was only 16 years old, the
local court falsely claimed that she was 22.

Three months ago, during her appearance before the local court, fiercely
angry the young girl hurled insults at the local judge, Haji Reza, who is
also the chief judicial administrator of the city, and it is said as another
expression of protest took off some of her clothes in the courtroom. This
act by the young girl made the administrator so furious that he evaluated
her file personally and in less than three months received a go-ahead from
the Islamic Republic's Supreme Court for her execution. The animosity and
anger of Haji Reza was so strong that he personally put the rope around the
girl's delicate neck and personally gave the signal to the crane operator,
by raising his hand, to begin pulling the rope."

and here's a pic of the poor girl -
http://mensnewsdaily.com/blog/reynalds/iran/hanging.jpg
here's a couple of gay teenagers being hanged -
http://talkleft.com/irangayteens.jpg
incidentally girls as young as 9 can be hung in iran. the minimum age for
boys is 15.
cheers
james

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.19.13.16.41.775754@stovell.org.uk...
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:43:26 +0100, tw wrote:
>
>
> How can you equate taking drugs, which, unless you go loopy, affects no
> others, with robbery, which always has a unwilling victim?

The short answer is: I'm not.

The long answer is: The question was how do you stop crime X by upholding
the law against crime X (a question so unutterably stupid that I can hardly
believe it was asked in the first place, or that someone could have such a
feeble grasp of the stick - until I saw your post). Both robbery and taking
illegal drugs are.. wait for it... illegal.

>
> --
> Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK
>
> Save Gales Brewery
> http://www.savegales.org.uk/
>

Phil Stovell

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:25:54 +0100, tw wrote:

> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.12.19.13.16.41.775754@stovell.org.uk...
>
> The short answer is: I'm not.
>
> The long answer is: The question was how do you stop crime X by upholding
> the law against crime X (a question so unutterably stupid that I can
> hardly believe it was asked in the first place, or that someone could have
> such a feeble grasp of the stick - until I saw your post). Both robbery
> and taking illegal drugs are.. wait for it... illegal.

Robbery should be illegal. Taking some drugs should not (I'm not sure if
*taking* drugs is illegal - it's just the possession thereof, idiotically).
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

Save Gales Brewery
http://www.savegales.org.uk/

Alan Hope

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

martin goes:

>Rockette the Mighty AssXXXXah wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>I don't see how it doesn't help fight the problem. Hang enough of the
>users and the dealers would go out of business too.

Drug dealers create their own customers, and very successfully. Few
other businesses have to overcome a total ban on their product's sale
and possession in any circumstances. Yet still the drugs trade makes
billions. It's quite remarkable, really.

--
AH

mrcheerful

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

Dave J.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

In MsgID<694dq1djcq4f7tvsirtgguvv10n8bo2fbe@4ax.com> within
uk.politics.drugs, 'Clough' wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:08:04 +0800, "Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote:
>
>
>
>What would you suggest should be done with drug users?

Give them the drugs they want at cost price and advise them to get on with
their lives. Also advise them that they may find this difficult and that
if they do they should obviously stop or cut down.

Dave J.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.19.13.41.24.913146@stovell.org.uk...
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:25:54 +0100, tw wrote:
>
For[vbcol=seagreen]
upholding[vbcol=seagreen]
have[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Robbery should be illegal.

...and apparently most people have decided that taking certain drugs should
be illegal too.

> Taking some drugs should not

...according to you. Why only "some drugs" by the way?

> (I'm not sure if *taking* drugs is illegal - it's just the possession
thereof, idiotically).

Taking drugs most certainly IS illegal - as is cunnilingus, having a beard
or not making your horse wear nappies.

>
> --
> Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK
>
> Save Gales Brewery
> http://www.savegales.org.uk/
>

Alex Heney

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:50:24 GMT, JAF <anarchSPAMKILLER@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:00:21 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>The problem here appears to be that you are too stupid to live.

No, the "problem" is that the subject of the OP *is* too stupid to
live.

Anybody who has been done twice for drug use, but who *(knows* that a
third offence means death is *extremely* stupid to commit that third
offence.

We may, as a "civilised" country, disagree with the death penalty
(although every significant poll taken since it was abolished has
shown a majority of public support for re-introduction), but there are
many countries who have the death penalty for various levels of drugs
offences, and those who repeatedly break those laws are likely to find
themselves being permanently deprived of any opportunities for further
offending. They have only themselves to blame.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Should I weed the lawn or say it's a garden?
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

John Graeme

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote[vbcol=seagreen]

news:43a68597@quokka.wn.com.au...
[vbcol=seagreen]
>

So the Germans should have cooperated in sending people to the Nazi
death camps while they campaigned to get the law changed?

Dave the exTrailer

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:08:22 +0000, Phil Stovell <phil@stovell.org.uk>
wrote:

>This is absolutely horrific and barbaric.
>

Quite possibly so but its their law.

Northern Raider

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

Wish we could hang the boozers and rec drug users in this country.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"John Graeme" <jdgraeme@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1135001054.597470.5720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> news:43a68597@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
>
>
> So the Germans should have cooperated in sending people to the Nazi
> death camps while they campaigned to get the law changed?
>

Godwin's Law invoked. YOu lose.

Harry the Horse

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3qedq19padbn73397as1pu2u91ahn8sdkv@4ax.com...
>
> We may, as a "civilised" country, disagree with the death penalty
> (although every significant poll taken since it was abolished has
> shown a majority of public support for re-introduction), but there are
> many countries who have the death penalty for various levels of drugs
> offences, and those who repeatedly break those laws are likely to find
> themselves being permanently deprived of any opportunities for further
> offending. They have only themselves to blame.
>
So that's a more verbose version of 'mr cheerful's view that no matter how
absurd, wicked or unjust a law might be, anyone who breaks it deserves all
they get. The moral squalor of such a point of view may readily be seen by
applying that formula to the Nazi race laws of the 1930s.

mrcheerful

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135003016.21274.0@damia.uk.clara.net...
> "Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:3qedq19padbn73397as1pu2u91ahn8sdkv@4ax.com...
> So that's a more verbose version of 'mr cheerful's view that no matter how
> absurd, wicked or unjust a law might be, anyone who breaks it deserves all
> they get. The moral squalor of such a point of view may readily be seen
> by applying that formula to the Nazi race laws of the 1930s.
>
I am not saying that the lawful penalties are not a bit over the top in that
country, but for instance if you lived there , would you break a law
repeatedly that you knew might result in a death sentence, and even parade
yourself in public while doing it?
A reasonable person would not.

mrcheerful

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135003016.21274.0@damia.uk.clara.net...
> "Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:3qedq19padbn73397as1pu2u91ahn8sdkv@4ax.com...
> So that's a more verbose version of 'mr cheerful's view that no matter how
> absurd, wicked or unjust a law might be, anyone who breaks it deserves all
> they get.

No, it is about knowing the consequences of your actions. If you stand in
front of a moving train, you will die - however "wicked, unjust or absurd"
you might find it, it's a fact.

> The moral squalor of such a point of view may readily be seen by
> applying that formula to the Nazi race laws of the 1930s.
>
>

Godwin's Law invoked. You lose.

Eric Jarvis

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

Phil Stovell phil@stovell.org.uk wrote in
<pan.2005.12.19.09.08.19.523298@stovell.org.uk>:
> This is absolutely horrific and barbaric.
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...18/wiran118.xml
>
> Father to hang for being drunk
>

Hush, you'll give the Blessed Tony ideas for his War On Yobs.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

Harry the Horse

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:do6dl4$hal$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
>
>
> ..and apparently most people have decided that taking certain drugs should
> be illegal too.
>
We don't live in a direct democracy, we live in a representative democracy,
which means that our drugs laws are as they are because a few hundred people
have decided them. An increasing body of *informed* opinion believes that
prohibition has caused crime and made the health issues surrounding the
taking of drugs much worse. Our history is littered with harmful laws that
were defended obdurately by vested interests and the bone headed. It is
scarcely surprising that this would also be the case with drugs prohibition.
In 200 years time, our attitude to drugs law will seem as remote and as
incomprehensible as witchcraft and heresy trials seem to us today.

inuit@canoemail.com

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

Rockette the Mighty AssXXXXah wrote:

> That's a lot of crap. How does 'upholding the [dumbass] law' enable the
> drug problem to be 'successfully fought'?

The drug problem has been successfully fought for years now. From
humble beginnings it has developed into a major operation employing
tens of thousands and a budget running into Billions. Growth is
practically unlimited and the numbers employed and finacial turnover
increase every year. By any measure this is a major success.

Clough

Harry the Horse

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:do6hje$jjf$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
>
>
> Godwin's Law invoked. You lose.
>
No it's a fair response to someone who claims that law must be obeyed no
matter how wicked it is. Your evasion on this point indicates that you have
no answer for it.

Harry the Horse

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kOzpf.11607$iz3.7640@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> I am not saying that the lawful penalties are not a bit over the top in
> that country, but for instance if you lived there , would you break a law
> repeatedly that you knew might result in a death sentence, and even parade
> yourself in public while doing it?
> A reasonable person would not.
>
I agree. But an alcoholic is not a reasonable person.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135004711.7642.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
> "tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
> news:do6dl4$hal$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
should[vbcol=seagreen]
> We don't live in a direct democracy, we live in a representative
democracy,

Who's this "we", white man?

> which means that our drugs laws are as they are because a few hundred
people
> have decided them. An increasing body of *informed* opinion believes that
> prohibition has caused crime and made the health issues surrounding the
> taking of drugs much worse. Our history is littered with harmful laws
that
> were defended obdurately by vested interests and the bone headed. It is
> scarcely surprising that this would also be the case with drugs
prohibition.
> In 200 years time, our attitude to drugs law will seem as remote and as
> incomprehensible as witchcraft and heresy trials seem to us today.
>
>

In your (presumably drug-addled) opinion. This has no bearing on what is
being discussed, you know.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135005121.7804.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
> "tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
> news:do6hje$jjf$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
> No it's a fair response to someone who claims that law must be obeyed no
> matter how wicked it is.

"Alex Healy" isn't claiming that, you XXXXing dingbat.

> Your evasion on this point indicates that you have no answer for it.

Your complete lack of ability to follow a simple thread apparently shows the
dangers of legalising drugs. Come back when you've ceom down and can
actually figure out what's under discussion..

>
>

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135005197.7812.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
> "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:kOzpf.11607$iz3.7640@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
law[vbcol=seagreen]
parade[vbcol=seagreen]
> I agree.

Then what are you XXXXing whining about you silly sod?

> But an alcoholic is not a reasonable person.

So? Neither is a psychotic murderer, but they'll still give him the chair in
America. Ditto any nutcase waving a gun around in the UK is likely to get
popped by an ARU.

Harry the Horse

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:do6j1c$kd6$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
>
> "Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135005197.7812.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
> law
> parade
>
> Then what are you XXXXing whining about you silly sod?
>
I agree that someone not entirely in charge of his faculities would do it.
However I do not take the brutalist view that 'he deserves everything he
gets'.

>
> So? Neither is a psychotic murderer, but they'll still give him the chair
> in
> America.
>
Yes the US is fond of executing the insane. That you would cite that in
defence your view surprises me not a bit.

> Ditto any nutcase waving a gun around in the UK is likely to get
> popped by an ARU.
>
Did you have a point?

bobbie sellers

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"mrcheerful
." wrote.

>
> "Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135003016.21274.0@damia.uk.clara.net...
> I am not saying that the lawful penalties are not a bit over the top in that
> country, but for instance if you lived there , would you break a law
> repeatedly that you knew might result in a death sentence, and even parade
> yourself in public while doing it?
> A reasonable person would not.
>
> mrcheerful

Alcohol addicts can be brought to reason but in Islamic nations
I doubt that they have Alcoholic Anonymous sister organisations
such as Al-Anon that teach families and friends how do do
interventions and so forth.

I don't pity the alcoholic his death though, he may have been
suicidal. His children and wife are the ones who will suffer
longest by his death, but at least they are free of the burden
that he would be if he continued his drunken life.

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

bobbie sellers

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

inuit@canoemail.com wrote.

> Rockette the Mighty AssXXXXah wrote:
>
>
> The drug problem has been successfully fought for years now. From
> humble beginnings it has developed into a major operation employing
> tens of thousands and a budget running into Billions. Growth is
> practically unlimited and the numbers employed and finacial turnover
> increase every year. By any measure this is a major success.
>
> Clough

Not a success in reducing drug use or harm from drug use.
Just another government boondoggle to employ thugs and pull
in money to corrupt judges. legislators and LEOs.

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

Harry the Horse

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:do6iui$k89$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
>
> "Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135005121.7804.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
>
> "Alex Healy" isn't claiming that, you XXXXing dingbat.
>
That you are incapable of understanding that that is the direct implication
of what he is saying does not surprise me in the least.

>
> Your complete lack of ability to follow a simple thread apparently shows
> the
> dangers of legalising drugs.
>
Why? Are you implying that I am taking illegal drugs. As it happens the
only recreational drugs I have ever taken is alcohol. And not much of that
over the years. If drugs usage were legalised I suppose I might try a cup
of cannabis tea to see what all the fuss was about but it's not something I
am too interested in. The reason why I oppose drugs prohibition is because
of the crime it causes and money it wastes. From observing your posts I can
see that the subtlety of that position is beyond you.

> Come back when you've ceom down and can
> actually figure out what's under discussion..
>
You appear to be the one in a wax.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135006715.9538.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
>
> "tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
> news:do6j1c$kd6$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
in[vbcol=seagreen]
> I agree that someone not entirely in charge of his faculities would do it.
> However I do not take the brutalist view that 'he deserves everything he
> gets'.

I'm not sure anyone has said he has, outside of your fevered brain.

>
chair[vbcol=seagreen]
> Yes the US is fond of executing the insane.

Well I don't know about "fond" but they certainly do it. Hence your
blatherings about "a reasonable person" are clearly just so much chin music.
Of course, a pyschotic with a gun in Briatin will more than likely end up
dead too, so I woduln't be looking down my nose at the US too much if I were
you.

>That you would cite that in defence your view surprises me not a bit.

So what is "my view" exactly? I have not commented on the rights or wrongs
of drugs being illegal, merely pointing out that people who break laws
should not be surprised when they get punished for doing so. especially if
they'd alreay benn let off several times.

>
> Did you have a point?

As I thought, it is far too sophisticated for you..

>
>
>

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135007414.9815.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
> "tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
> news:do6iui$k89$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
no[vbcol=seagreen]
> That you are incapable of understanding that that is the direct
implication
> of what he is saying does not surprise me in the least.

That you have to resort to putting words in other people's mouths and other
strawman tactics to bark your idiotic nonsense over the ether doesn't
surprise me. Saying "If you break a law, you can't moan about being punished
for it" is NOT the same as saying all law must be obeyed.

> Why? Are you implying that I am taking illegal drugs.

Well done, you've actually understood something for the first time today.

> As it happens the
> only recreational drugs I have ever taken is alcohol. And not much of
that
> over the years. If drugs usage were legalised I suppose I might try a cup
> of cannabis tea to see what all the fuss was about but it's not something
I
> am too interested in.

IN which case I withdraw the implication and apologise.

> The reason why I oppose drugs prohibition is because
> of the crime it causes and money it wastes. From observing your posts I
can
> see that the subtlety of that position is beyond you.

Not at all. If you'd actually bothered to ask me MY position befor egoing
off in a frenzy of second guessing and assumption, you might be surprised by
my answer...

>
> You appear to be the one in a wax.
>
>

Dave J.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

In MsgID<1135003016.21274.0@damia.uk.clara.net> within uk.politics.drugs,
'Harry the Horse' wrote:

>"Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:3qedq19padbn73397as1pu2u91ahn8sdkv@4ax.com...
>So that's a more verbose version of 'mr cheerful's view that no matter how
>absurd, wicked or unjust a law might be, anyone who breaks it deserves all
>they get. The moral squalor of such a point of view may readily be seen by
>applying that formula to the Nazi race laws of the 1930s.

No, what he's saying (iiuic) is nothing to do with how right or wrong the
penalty is, regardless of rightness, it is undeniably pretty stupid to
risk a death penalty just for a glass of booze. If there was the death
penalty here for smoking pot I would either give up or carry a gun whilst
being prepared to 'sacrifice' myself for the cause. Probably the former as
I'm getting a bit old for the latter. That said, if I did take the latter
course I would have little cause for complaint if I got caught, just as
they would have little cause for complaint if I shot one or two of them in
the process.

If you join in a war to the death then there's no point whinging if you
wind up dead.

Dave J.

Chris X

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135007414.9815.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
> "tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
> news:do6iui$k89$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
> That you are incapable of understanding that that is the direct
> implication of what he is saying does not surprise me in the least.
>
> Why? Are you implying that I am taking illegal drugs. As it happens the
> only recreational drugs I have ever taken is alcohol. And not much of
> that over the years. If drugs usage were legalised I suppose I might try
> a cup of cannabis tea to see what all the fuss was about but it's not
> something I am too interested in. The reason why I oppose drugs
> prohibition is because of the crime it causes and money it wastes. From
> observing your posts I can see that the subtlety of that position is
> beyond you.
>
> You appear to be the one in a wax.

He's a sickening little shit, a timewaster and also a proven liar, see;
http://tinyurl.com/dfw6b
It's no surprise that he chooses to live and work in police/nanny state
Sweden where newly born babies have their DNA sampled and the mighty State
(that must be obeyed) decides what is "best" for everyone. Best to killfile
the daft tit.

bobbie sellers

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"tw" wrote.

>
> "Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135005197.7812.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
> law
> parade
>
> Then what are you XXXXing whining about you silly sod?
>
>
> So? Neither is a psychotic murderer, but they'll still give him the chair in
> America. Ditto any nutcase waving a gun around in the UK is likely to get
> popped by an ARU.

Actually various methods of execution are employed in the USA.
The electric chair and gas chamber along with hanging and firing
squads are on their way out. Latest thing is using chemicals to
poison specific bodily systems and destroy its functions which is
considered more humane than the alternatives. The torture of such
a death is added to when an inexperienced veinipuncturist is
employed and takes a long time to find a vein as recently seen
in the execution of one Stanley "Tookie" Williams.

Murderers are more like to be socio- or psychopaths rather than
psychotic who are really too disorganised to do much crime for very
long but might strike out in their mental confusion. By and large
psychotics are mostly peaceful people

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Dave J." <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:rtldq11c5boi835elar0ajltcqaotp5q8h@4ax.com...
> In MsgID<1135003016.21274.0@damia.uk.clara.net> within uk.politics.drugs,
> 'Harry the Horse' wrote:
>
how[vbcol=seagreen]
all[vbcol=seagreen]
by[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> No, what he's saying (iiuic) is nothing to do with how right or wrong the
> penalty is, regardless of rightness, it is undeniably pretty stupid to
> risk a death penalty just for a glass of booze. If there was the death
> penalty here for smoking pot I would either give up or carry a gun whilst
> being prepared to 'sacrifice' myself for the cause. Probably the former as
> I'm getting a bit old for the latter. That said, if I did take the latter
> course I would have little cause for complaint if I got caught, just as
> they would have little cause for complaint if I shot one or two of them in
> the process.
>
> If you join in a war to the death then there's no point whinging if you
> wind up dead.
>
> Dave J.

'zackly. Good luck getting him to understand that though.

Alex Buell

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Northern Raider wrote:

> Wish we could hang the boozers and rec drug users in this country.

I'll hang you the minute they do that.

--
http://www.munted.org.uk

Anyone that thinks an imaginary deity is going to protect them against
earthquakes and hurricanes needs psychiatric help.

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"Chris X" <Chris_x@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LuqdnUMh9u-2RzveRVnysQ@giganews.com...
>
> "Harry the Horse" <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135007414.9815.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
no[vbcol=seagreen]
shows[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
try[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> He's a sickening little shit, a timewaster and also a proven liar, see;
> http://tinyurl.com/dfw6b

...where, amusingly Chris of the BNP shows himself to be the liar!

> It's no surprise that he chooses to live and work in police/nanny state
> Sweden

Amongst other places..

> where newly born babies have their DNA sampled and the mighty State
> (that must be obeyed) decides what is "best" for everyone.

LOL! Goo dto see there is no limit to the things you'll spout your ignorance
on, you silly man..

> Best to killfile the daft tit.

Especially if you can't debate actual elements of BNP policty with him, eh
Chris?

>
>
>
>

2005-12-19, 10:55 am

"bobbie sellers" <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia.com> wrote in message
news:10214488137311180.NC-1.56.blissNO@News.Individual.NET...
> "tw" wrote.
>
in[vbcol=seagreen]
a[vbcol=seagreen]
chair in[vbcol=seagreen]
get[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Actually various methods of execution are employed in the USA.
> The electric chair and gas chamber along with hanging and firing
> squads are on their way out. Latest thing is using chemicals to
> poison specific bodily systems and destroy its functions which is
> considered more humane than the alternatives.

Uuurgh!

> The torture of such a death is added to when an inexperienced
veinipuncturist is
> employed and takes a long time to find a vein as recently seen
> in the execution of one Stanley "Tookie" Williams.

Double uurgh!

>
> Murderers are more like to be socio- or psychopaths rather than
> psychotic who are really too disorganised to do much crime for very
> long but might strike out in their mental confusion. By and large
> psychotics are mostly peaceful people

Depends on the psychosis I suppose, but the point was that not being " a
reasonabl person" is apparently no barrier to the execution of a sentence.

>
> later
> bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
>
> --
> bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
>
> It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
> the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
> It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
> --from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.
>

Alex Heney

2005-12-19, 12:51 pm

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:36:57 -0000, "Harry the Horse"
<HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:3qedq19padbn73397as1pu2u91ahn8sdkv@4ax.com...
>So that's a more verbose version of 'mr cheerful's view that no matter how
>absurd, wicked or unjust a law might be, anyone who breaks it deserves all
>they get.

I did NOT say he "deserves" to be executed.

I said he only has himself to blame, which is not the same thing at
all.

There are many people killed in motorcycle "accidents" who die because
of their own stupidity. But that doesn't mean they deserve to die.

Iran is a horrible, repressive, country, and I am quite sure that the
majority of executions there are for things which would not be
considered serious offences here, often things which in the view of
most westerners should not be offences at all.

But it still takes gross stupidity to break a law such as this one
when you have already been found guilty twice, and know that the third
time means a death sentence.

>The moral squalor of such a point of view may readily be seen by
>applying that formula to the Nazi race laws of the 1930s.
>

You lose the argument :-)
(An automatic consequence of invoking the Nazis).
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Use DEVICE=EXXON to screw up your environment.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney

2005-12-19, 12:51 pm

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:13:15 -0000, "Harry the Horse"
<HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:kOzpf.11607$iz3.7640@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>I agree. But an alcoholic is not a reasonable person.
>

I doubt it is *possible* to get hold of sufficient alcohol to become
an alcoholic in Iran.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Use DEVICE=EXXON to screw up your environment.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney

2005-12-19, 12:51 pm

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:11:59 -0000, "Harry the Horse"
<HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
>news:do6hje$jjf$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
>No it's a fair response to someone who claims that law must be obeyed no
>matter how wicked it is. Your evasion on this point indicates that you have
>no answer for it.
>

It might be a fair response to that situation.

But nobody has claimed that in this thread.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Scorpius

2005-12-19, 12:51 pm

On 19 Dec 2005 08:08:40 -0700, "bobbie sellers"
<blissNO@SPAMcalifornia.com> wrote:

>Latest thing is using chemicals to
>poison specific bodily systems and destroy its functions which is
>considered more humane than the alternatives.

But first the person is sedated so they will not experience anything
when the systemic poison is introduced.

If you died in your sleep, would it bother you?

John Burke

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Phil Stovell wrote:
> This is absolutely horrific and barbaric.

Maybe, but I bet Sardasht town centre is more civilised than mine on
Saturday nights.

JB

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

mrcheerful . wrote:
> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.12.19.09.08.19.523298@stovell.org.uk...
>
>
>
> he knew of the law and chose to ignore it, what is the problem?
>
> mrcheerful
>
>

So you're saying the Jews who refused to wear their stars in Germany
deserved what happened to them?

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

tw wrote:
> "John Graeme" <jdgraeme@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1135001054.597470.5720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> Godwin's Law invoked. YOu lose.
>
>

In this case, the comparison is apropos. Mrcheerful was suggesting that
those who break the law deserve the consequences, even if the law is
unjust inhuman and barbaric.

Another example: is he suggesting those who broke the Jim Crow laws
deserved to be brutalized by corrupt cops, judges, and politicians?

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Clough wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:00:21 GMT, "mrcheerful
> ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> The probelm is the sentence. It is a barbaric sentence and deserving
> of criticism, but surely the penalty for a drug user should be prison
> and compulsory treatment rather than hanging. Although I do know that
> drug users are amongst the most unpopular members of society.
>
> Clough

You've never taken asprin then? Or fine, I'll limit it to recreational
drugs. Ever had a drink? A cigarette? How 'bout a cup of coffee or a
bottle of cola? Drugs, all.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Alex Heney wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:50:24 GMT, JAF <anarchSPAMKILLER@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> No, the "problem" is that the subject of the OP *is* too stupid to
> live.
>
> Anybody who has been done twice for drug use, but who *(knows* that a
> third offence means death is *extremely* stupid to commit that third
> offence.
>
> We may, as a "civilised" country, disagree with the death penalty
> (although every significant poll taken since it was abolished has
> shown a majority of public support for re-introduction), but there are
> many countries who have the death penalty for various levels of drugs
> offences, and those who repeatedly break those laws are likely to find
> themselves being permanently deprived of any opportunities for further
> offending. They have only themselves to blame.

Themselves, and the unjust laws.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Alex Heney wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:13:15 -0000, "Harry the Horse"
> <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I doubt it is *possible* to get hold of sufficient alcohol to become
> an alcoholic in Iran.

You obviously don't know much about alcoholism then. If one is disposed
to the disease, it can take as little as a single beer to set it off.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Clough wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:08:22 +0000, Phil Stovell <phil@stovell.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> The death penalty is barbaric, but it was his third conviction for
> using illegal drugs. The law must be upheld if the scourge of drugs is
> to be successfully fought, although his penalty should be commuted to
> life imprisonment.
>
> Clough

The "scourge of drugs" has been around for the better part of human
history. They will never be "succesfully fought" whatever that means.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

tw wrote:
> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.12.19.13.41.24.913146@stovell.org.uk...
>
>
>
> ..according to you. Why only "some drugs" by the way?
>

Because only some drugs are illegal, even in the most restrictive
countries. I woulda thought that was obvious.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Alan Hope wrote:
> martin goes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Drug dealers create their own customers, and very successfully. Few
> other businesses have to overcome a total ban on their product's sale
> and possession in any circumstances. Yet still the drugs trade makes
> billions. It's quite remarkable, really.
>
>

It makes billions *because* it's illegal, actually.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

mrcheerful

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

"Delta Nine" <d_nineNOSPAM@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qSDpf.7537$Dd2.1709@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> mrcheerful . wrote:
>
> So you're saying the Jews who refused to wear their stars in Germany
> deserved what happened to them?
>

We are not discussing WW2, so you lose.

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Dave the exTrailer wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:08:22 +0000, Phil Stovell <phil@stovell.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Quite possibly so but its their law.

To accept unjust laws is to be guilty of injustice.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

mrcheerful . wrote:
> "Delta Nine" <d_nineNOSPAM@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:qSDpf.7537$Dd2.1709@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> We are not discussing WW2, so you lose.
>
>

I'm just using your logic. Those Jews knew of the law and chose to
ignore, what is the problem?

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Tom

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

"Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2jrdq192ltu8rsknjjfdgv7tni0t6pnr12@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:13:15 -0000, "Harry the Horse"
> <HarryAtTheStable@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
law[vbcol=seagreen]
parade[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I doubt it is *possible* to get hold of sufficient alcohol to become
> an alcoholic in Iran.

...then you would be very, very wrong. Persians have a long history of
brewing/distilling and drinking the stuff. Where do you think Shiraz grapes
came from? Come to think of it the word "Alcohol" is Arabic in origin. As in
Saudi Arabia, plenty of people have illegal stills.

> --
> Alex Heney, Global Villager
> Use DEVICE=EXXON to screw up your environment.
> To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:57:57 GMT, "Tom" <no@no.com> wrote:

>
>"Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:2jrdq192ltu8rsknjjfdgv7tni0t6pnr12@4ax.com...
>law
>parade
>
>..then you would be very, very wrong. Persians have a long history of
>brewing/distilling and drinking the stuff. Where do you think Shiraz grapes
>came from? Come to think of it the word "Alcohol" is Arabic in origin. As in
>Saudi Arabia, plenty of people have illegal stills.
>

I must admit I wasn't thinking of homebrew or homedistill.

The history is irrelevant though, because when officially
brewing/distilling, they didn't have laws forbidding the consumption.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Worry : The interest paid on trouble before it's due
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

mrcheerful

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

"Delta Nine" <d_nineNOSPAM@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZUEpf.8012$nm.4177@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> mrcheerful . wrote:
>
> I'm just using your logic. Those Jews knew of the law and chose to
> ignore, what is the problem?
>

There was not a problem as far as the law of the country went.

mrcheerful

Pete nospam Zakel

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

In article <43a6a883$0$29562$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk> martin <usenet@etiqa.co.uk> writes:
>Rockette the Mighty AssXXXXah wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>I don't see how it doesn't help fight the problem. Hang enough of the
>users and the dealers would go out of business too.

Really? You know that's been tried in the past and it just doesn't work.

Much better to legalize the business and allow people to retain their
unalienable rights to self-determination and bodily autonomy.

-Pete Zakel
(phz@seeheader.nospam)

"Laws are only words words written on paper, words that change on society's
whim and are interpreted differently daily by politicians, lawyers, judges,
and policemen. Anyone who believes that all laws should always be obeyed
would have made a fine slave catcher. Anyone who believes that all laws are
applied equally, despite race, religion, or economic status, is a fool."

-John J. Miller, "And Hope to Die"
(in _Jokertown Shuffle - Wild Cards IX_)

Pete nospam Zakel

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

In article <do6dl4$hal$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se> "tw" <no@no.com> writes:
>

>..and apparently most people have decided that taking certain drugs should
>be illegal too.

So? If most people thought that blacks and whites shouldn't marry, should
that be illegal?

If most people thought that it was OK to kill people with red hair, should
it be legal to kill people with red hair?

No matter what people believe, forcing someone to follow your personal moral
code when they are not harming anyone else is WRONG.

It is as wrong to force someone not to drink alcohol as it is to force someone
not to drink water.

-Pete Zakel
(phz@seeheader.nospam)

"There is no remedy for sex but more sex."

arclight@system-x.info

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

Delta Nine wrote:
> Clough wrote:
>
> The "scourge of drugs" has been around for the better part of human
> history.

Actually it's probably been around since long before some lucky primate
figured out how to walk upright.

There are plenty of animals that take drugs whenever they get the
chance, take for example cats and catnip, they go mental trying to get
as much of it as possible, and then they lay around mashed out of their
skulls for a while. So it would seem reasonable that the urge to alter
ones state of consciousness has been common amongst animals for a lot
longer than humans have been taking, let alone banning drugs.

> They will never be "succesfully fought" whatever that means.

they can't be, because we as a species have a natural urge to get high.

bobbie sellers

2005-12-19, 5:54 pm

spam@uce.gov (Scorpius) wrote.

> On 19 Dec 2005 08:08:40 -0700, "bobbie sellers"
> <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia.com> wrote:
>
>
> But first the person is sedated so they will not experience anything
> when the systemic poison is introduced.
>
> If you died in your sleep, would it bother you?

I'll try to let you know if it happens to me.

But the sedation is itself a poison and in adequate dose as
Doctor Proctor would attest it would kill. I have objections
to the use of an inexperienced veinpuncturist in the procedure.

Killing people even by state order is not best policy in
my opinion and my mom was murdered by a man who to the best
of my knowlege has never been apprended. I would be happier
if he was locked up for the rest of his miserable life than
leading a "normal" life on the outside as he may be doing.
On the other hand he may be continuing to kill elderly
blondes which means he might try me, a slightly harder target
than most of the LOLs out there.

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

abelard

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:00:21 GMT, "mrcheerful
.." <nbkm57@hotmail.com>

typed:

>
>"Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:pan.2005.12.19.09.08.19.523298@stovell.org.uk...
>
>he knew of the law and chose to ignore it, what is the problem?

there is no law in iran....it is an arbitrary dictatorship...the
'government' has no legitimate basis to make law...

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service, logic,
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,207 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

"bobbie sellers" <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia.com> wrote in message
news:10214713259681182.NC-1.56.blissNO@News.Individual.NET...[vbcol=seagreen]
> spam@uce.gov (Scorpius) wrote.
>

Sorry to cut in here but:-

I hope to die peacefully in my sleep like my dear old Dad and
NOT screaming and crying like the passengers on his bus :-))

the otherside

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

"Pete nospam Zakel" <pxhxz@cadence.com> wrote in message
news:43a73c88$1@news.cadence.com...
> In article <do6dl4$hal$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se> "tw" <no@no.com>
writes:
>
should[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> So? If most people thought that blacks and whites shouldn't marry,
should
> that be illegal?
>
> If most people thought that it was OK to kill people with red hair,
should
> it be legal to kill people with red hair?
>
> No matter what people believe, forcing someone to follow your personal
moral
> code when they are not harming anyone else is WRONG.
>
> It is as wrong to force someone not to drink alcohol as it is to force
someone
> not to drink water.

WC Fields didn't drink water because fish XXXXed in it. That is why he
used cold ball bearings as ice cubes.
>
> -Pete Zakel
> (phz@seeheader.nospam)
>
> "There is no remedy for sex but more sex."

Phil Stovell

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:36:26 +0000, Delta Nine wrote:

> You've never taken asprin then? Or fine, I'll limit it to recreational
> drugs. Ever had a drink? A cigarette? How 'bout a cup of coffee or a
> bottle of cola? Drugs, all.

Clough uses a similar method of parodying prohibition insanity to me.
--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

Save Gales Brewery
http://www.savegales.org.uk/

Phil Stovell

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:08:40 -0700, bobbie sellers wrote:

> Actually various methods of execution are employed in the USA.
> The electric chair and gas chamber along with hanging and firing squads
> are on their way out. Latest thing is using chemicals to poison specific
> bodily systems and destroy its functions which is considered more humane
> than the alternatives. The torture of such a death is added to when an
> inexperienced veinipuncturist is employed and takes a long time to find a
> vein as recently seen in the execution of one Stanley "Tookie" Williams.

Is it true that they XXXXed his execution up so badly he died in terrible
agony?

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

Save Gales Brewery
http://www.savegales.org.uk/

Phil Stovell

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:50:38 +0100, tw wrote:

> So what is "my view" exactly? I have not commented on the rights or wrongs
> of drugs being illegal, merely pointing out that people who break laws
> should not be surprised when they get punished for doing so. especially if
> they'd alreay benn let off several times.

If all the homosexuals obeyed the law as it was up until 1968 would Reg
Dwight and David Furnish be getting married tomorrow?

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

Save Gales Brewery
http://www.savegales.org.uk/

Pete nospam Zakel

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

In article <98rdq1ln28leqe5hosim5osf1v58t2r8do@4ax.com> alex@heney.plus.com writes:

>I said he only has himself to blame, which is not the same thing at
>all.

So the people who pass laws mandating death for alcohol use, and the people
carrying out the sentences, and the people who allow the sentences to be
carried out carry no blame whatsoever?

-Pete Zakel
(phz@seeheader.nospam)

"My brother sent me a postcard the other day with this big sattelite photo of
the entire earth on it. On the back it said: `Wish you were here.'"

-Steven Wright

Phil Stovell

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:47:16 +0100, tw wrote:

> Why only "some drugs" by the way

Taking alcohol, salvia divinorum, khat, caffeine etc is legal. Some other
drugs are not legal to take.

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

Save Gales Brewery
http://www.savegales.org.uk/

Alex Heney

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On 19 Dec 2005 16:25:10 -0700, pxhxz@cadence.com (Pete nospam Zakel)
wrote:

>In article <98rdq1ln28leqe5hosim5osf1v58t2r8do@4ax.com> alex@heney.plus.com writes:
>
>
>So the people who pass laws mandating death for alcohol use, and the people
>carrying out the sentences, and the people who allow the sentences to be
>carried out carry no blame whatsoever?
>

Not for the specific case, no.

They carry a LOT of blame for the generality, but they can't be blamed
for the fact that this man chose to break the law.

No matter how wrong the law (and I most certainly agree it is wrong),
if the man had not chosen to break *after* having already been
punished by lashes twice, he would not be facing execution.

He has only himself to blame for the choice he made.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Should I weed the lawn or say it's a garden?
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 00:58:32 +0100, abelard <abelard2@abelard.org>
wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:00:21 GMT, "mrcheerful
>." <nbkm57@hotmail.com>
>
> typed:
>
>
>there is no law in iran....it is an arbitrary dictatorship...the
> 'government' has no legitimate basis to make law...

The second of your three statements is more or less correct.

Both of the others are wrong.

Just because it is a form of government we in the UK mostly find
abhorrent does not mean it is not legitimate.

Government by representative democracy is NOT the only valid form of
government.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
It's smart to pick your friends, but not to pieces.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

abelard

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 01:07:59 +0000, Alex Heney <me8@privacy.net>

typed:

>On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 00:58:32 +0100, abelard <abelard2@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>The second of your three statements is more or less correct.
>
>Both of the others are wrong.
>
>Just because it is a form of government we in the UK mostly find
>abhorrent does not mean it is not legitimate.

irrelevant...

>Government by representative democracy is NOT the only valid form of
>government.

disagree....

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service, logic,
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,207 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bobbie sellers

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

Phil Stovell wrote.

> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:08:40 -0700, bobbie sellers wrote:
>
>
> Is it true that they XXXXed his execution up so badly he died in terrible
> agony?

Not as far as I know. But he was put to some discomfort which
disturbed his last conscious moments. Of course if the Xian are
correct he may be in agony now or his victims may have forgiven
him

> Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK
>
> Save Gales Brewery
> http://www.savegales.org.uk/

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

wfh_jr@yahoo.com

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

No, the question, which you have misread as "how do you stop crime X by
upholding
the law against crime X" was in fact "How does 'upholding the [dumbass]
law' enable the[vbcol=seagreen]

Fighting a medical problem is not the same thing as stopping a crime.
But aside from all that, in which country and at what time has
enforcement of anti-drug laws led to the eradication of drug abuse?
Well? So how do you stop crime X? Are you a retarded person? But you
are at least untterably stupid, right?

Michael

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

wfh_jr@yahoo.com wrote:

> No, the question, which you have misread as "how do you stop crime X
> by upholding
> the law against crime X" was in fact "How does 'upholding the
> [dumbass] law' enable the
>
> Fighting a medical problem is not the same thing as stopping a crime.
> But aside from all that, in which country and at what time has
> enforcement of anti-drug laws led to the eradication of drug abuse?

.... or even prevented its growth...

> Well? So how do you stop crime X? Are you a retarded person? But you
> are at least untterably stupid, right?

Delta Nine

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

mrcheerful . wrote:
> "Delta Nine" <d_nineNOSPAM@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:ZUEpf.8012$nm.4177@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> There was not a problem as far as the law of the country went.
>
> mrcheerful
>
>

Good to know that you don't have a problem with slaughter and genocide
so long as its done under the aegis of "law and order"

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Delta Nine

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

Phil Stovell wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:36:26 +0000, Delta Nine wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Clough uses a similar method of parodying prohibition insanity to me.

I see. Then I take back everything I said in reply to Clough.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine

People who quote themselves are assholes.
- Delta Nine

Completely baffled by the backward indication that an inspired word will
come across your tongue.
- Jack White

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

Pete nospam Zakel

2005-12-20, 12:55 am

In article <1135049401.199843.308520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wfh_jr@yahoo.com writes:
>No, the question, which you have misread as "how do you stop crime X by
>upholding
>the law against crime X" was in fact "How does 'upholding the [dumbass]
>law' enable the
[vbcol=seagreen]
>Fighting a medical problem is not the same thing as stopping a crime.
>But aside from all that, in which country and at what time has
>enforcement of anti-drug laws led to the eradication of drug abuse?
>Well? So how do you stop crime X? Are you a retarded person? But you
>are at least untterably stupid, right?

Not only that -- but exactly how does consensual drug use even count as a
crime? Just because it's against the law doesn't mean it is a criminal act
(except pedantically).

-Pete Zakel
(phz@seeheader.nospam)

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history ... this century's
history. ... We all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."

-Dan Quayle, then Indiana senator and Republican vice-presidential
candidate during a news conference in which he was asked his
opinion about the Holocaust

slate

2005-12-20, 10:52 am

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:16:17 +0000, Alex Heney <me8@privacy.net>
wrote:

>
>I must admit I wasn't thinking of homebrew or homedistill.
>
>The history is irrelevant though, because when officially
>brewing/distilling, they didn't have laws forbidding the consumption.

Only illegal for Muslims! Jews, Christians etc can brew, sell and
drink what they want.

2005-12-20, 10:52 am

"Pete nospam Zakel" <pxhxz@cadence.com> wrote in message
news:43a73c88$1@news.cadence.com...
> In article <do6dl4$hal$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se> "tw" <no@no.com> writes:
>
should[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> So? If most people thought that blacks and whites shouldn't marry, should
> that be illegal?
>
> If most people thought that it was OK to kill people with red hair, should
> it be legal to kill people with red hair?

If laws were decided by popular vote 8or government was a true reflection of
the population's wishes) then these question would answer itself wouldn't
it?

>
> No matter what people believe, forcing someone to follow your personal
moral
> code when they are not harming anyone else is WRONG.

....according to your moral code...

>
> It is as wrong to force someone not to drink alcohol as it is to force
someone
> not to drink water.

And you wish to force that subjective moral code on everyone do you?

>
> -Pete Zakel
> (phz@seeheader.nospam)
>
> "There is no remedy for sex but more sex."

2005-12-20, 10:52 am

<wfh_jr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135049401.199843.308520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> No, the question, which you have misread as "how do you stop crime X by
> upholding
> the law against crime X" was in fact "How does 'upholding the [dumbass]
> law' enable the
>
> Fighting a medical problem is not the same thing as stopping a crime.
> But aside from all that, in which country and at what time has
> enforcement of anti-drug laws led to the eradication of drug abuse?

This isn't the question.. but never mind.

> Well? So how do you stop crime X? Are you a retarded person? But you
> are at least untterably stupid, right?
>

Wrong.

2005-12-20, 10:52 am

"Pete nospam Zakel" <pxhxz@cadence.com> wrote in message
news:43a78a1e$1@news.cadence.com...
> In article <1135049401.199843.308520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
wfh_jr@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> Not only that -- but exactly how does consensual drug use even count as a
> crime? Just because it's against the law doesn't mean it is a criminal
act

er.. what other definition do you have for criminal act?

Alex Heney

2005-12-20, 10:52 am

On 19 Dec 2005 20:35:42 -0700, pxhxz@cadence.com (Pete nospam Zakel)
wrote:

>In article <1135049401.199843.308520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wfh_jr@yahoo.com writes:
>
>