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Home > Archive > Chronic Fatique Syndrom > November 2006 > Need for sleep! and very tired.
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Need for sleep! and very tired.
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| bobbie sellers 2006-10-20, 9:23 pm |
| Hi there,
I just chanced across a copy of New Scientist for
16 September 2006. On page 9 is an article describing how
the body reacts to lack of sleep as it does to other stress.
This points up the need for rest for people who already have
an overactive immune system as in some forms of cfids as the
substances produced are inflammatory and we already have enough
problems.
I lost funding for my supplements and am trying to cut back
on the more expensive supplements among which are fish body oil
capsules. I simply cut my dose to half of what I had been using
and I got sick so I doubled it up again for a month or so then
in the last month cut it back and then this week found myself
in a bad crash perhaps merely because of over-exertion but I
am doubling the dose of fish oil again. I would like to increase
it but I think that will be beyond my means until next year.
later
Bobbie Sellers
--
bobbie sellers - an exhausted, former nurse in San Francisco
bliss at california dot com
"There has been a fear, often unconscious, that clear
thinking would lead to anarchy, and this fear has led
philosophers to hide in mists of fallacy and obscurity"
--Bertrand Russell
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|
| Bobbie,
I buy Kroger Brand frozen fish filets and can get 2-3 meals out of a
$3.50 bag of Tilapia (no preservatives or fillers added to the ones in
the large zip-lock bags, unlike some of their other fish). I just wrap
them in foil with stewed tomatoes and cheese and cook at 350 degrees for
30 minutes. Might be a natural way to get some of your fish oil. Also,
Dollar General (if there are any in your area) has a limited supply of
very inexpensive supplements. I get my coenzyme Q10 there at less than
half the going price. Big Lots also has very inexpensive supplements
but you never know what you'll find from month to month there, and you
have to watch out for expiration dates. I got several 100 ct. bottles
of ibuprofen there for $1.00 and a large bottle of vitamin C for $2.00.
Cathy
bliss@CALIFORNIA.COM wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I just chanced across a copy of New Scientist for
> 16 September 2006. On page 9 is an article describing how
> the body reacts to lack of sleep as it does to other stress.
>
> This points up the need for rest for people who already have
> an overactive immune system as in some forms of cfids as the
> substances produced are inflammatory and we already have enough
> problems.
>
> I lost funding for my supplements and am trying to cut back
> on the more expensive supplements among which are fish body oil
> capsules. I simply cut my dose to half of what I had been using
> and I got sick so I doubled it up again for a month or so then
> in the last month cut it back and then this week found myself
> in a bad crash perhaps merely because of over-exertion but I
> am doubling the dose of fish oil again. I would like to increase
> it but I think that will be beyond my means until next year.
>
> later
> Bobbie Sellers
>
>
| |
| bobbie sellers 2006-10-21, 2:23 am |
| Hi CB, on 10/21/06, you wrote:
> Bobbie,
> I buy Kroger Brand frozen fish filets and can get 2-3 meals out
> of a $3.50 bag of Tilapia (no preservatives or fillers added to
> the ones in the large zip-lock bags, unlike some of their other
> fish). I just wrap them in foil with stewed tomatoes and cheese
> and cook at 350 degrees for 30 minutes. Might be a natural way
> to get some of your fish oil. Also, Dollar General (if there
> are any in your area) has a limited supply of very inexpensive
> supplements. I get my coenzyme Q10 there at less than half the
> going price. Big Lots also has very inexpensive supplements but
> you never know what you'll find from month to month there, and
> you have to watch out for expiration dates. I got several 100
> ct. bottles of ibuprofen there for $1.00 and a large bottle of
> vitamin C for $2.00.
> Cathy
Kroger aka Ralph's has just left the SF area. I didn't like
them much, the worst cocoa I ever had, but maybe they impressed
the other customers in a similar way. The prices were much
higher than the quality.
Tilapia is the least attractive fish I know of and the
fish oil needs to come from cold water fish to have a high
content of the appropriate fats. Tilapia as far as I know
is a warm water fish farmed originally in Mexico.
I don't think we have a General Dollar in the SF Bay Area.
Turning on the oven is problematic when SF is having a
normally warm fall day. I bake my food a couple of times
a week and turn out my wheat free muffins once or twice a week.
Have to bake some rice-corn bread once a month or so for the
salmon patties.
The rest of the time I cook in my microwave or rather cook
the vegetable and reheat my turkey or salmon patties.
When it cools off again in a few weeks maybe I will
do a pot roast or picnic ham shoulder) in the oven. Depending
on the prices of course.
I will let you know if the additional fish body oil helps.
Thanks for your reply.
> bliss@CALIFORNIA.COM wrote: Snipped to save space.
later
Bobbie Sellers
--
bobbie sellers - a very tired former nurse in San Francisco
bliss at california dot com
Ewige Schlangekraft! © BI
| |
| Cilla O'Brien 2006-10-23, 9:32 pm |
| In a message dated 10/20/2006 7:18:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bliss@CALIFORNIA.COM writes:
I lost funding for my supplements and am trying to cut back
on the more expensive supplements among which are fish body oil
capsules. I simply cut my dose to half of what I had been using
and I got sick so I doubled it up again for a month or so then
in the last month cut it back and then this week found myself
in a bad crash perhaps merely because of over-exertion but I
am doubling the dose of fish oil again. I would like to increase
it but I think that will be beyond my means until next year.
It's a damn shame that we can't get Patient Assistance for herbs &
supplements. I don't have Medicaid, but I've sent PAP forms for my doc to sign so I can
get my main meds through the pharmaceuticals.
My therapist/acupunterist recently gave me a bottle of chinese herbs: "Ba
Zhen Wan" to try. It's for overall health & fatigue. I can tell a slight
difference in my energy level.
It's expensive using &/or eating the things that are best for our conditions,
but for those on Disability with little income, we're stuck between a rock &
a hard place.....
cilla
"Autumn is a second spring when every leaf is a flower."
--Albert Camus
| |
|
| bliss@CALIFORNIA.COM wrote:
> Hi CB, on 10/21/06, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kroger aka Ralph's has just left the SF area. I didn't like
> them much, the worst cocoa I ever had, but maybe they impressed
> the other customers in a similar way. The prices were much
> higher than the quality.
>
I have never liked them much except that lately they have had very
inexpensive frozen dinners and quite often that is all I can find the
energy to cook or plan, so I have been shopping there more.
> Tilapia is the least attractive fish I know of and the
> fish oil needs to come from cold water fish to have a high
> content of the appropriate fats. Tilapia as far as I know
> is a warm water fish farmed originally in Mexico.
>
Didn't know that Tilapia was a warm water fish. Does it have a lot of
contaminants? Thanks for the info. Sorry my advice was off-base. I
don't eat Salmon, don't like the flavor much.
> I don't think we have a General Dollar in the SF Bay Area.
>
> Turning on the oven is problematic when SF is having a
> normally warm fall day. I bake my food a couple of times
> a week and turn out my wheat free muffins once or twice a week.
> Have to bake some rice-corn bread once a month or so for the
> salmon patties.
> The rest of the time I cook in my microwave or rather cook
> the vegetable and reheat my turkey or salmon patties.
>
> When it cools off again in a few weeks maybe I will
> do a pot roast or picnic ham shoulder) in the oven. Depending
> on the prices of course.
>
Mmmm. . . I've been craving pot roast lately.
Having to shop around for good prices is getting really problematic for
me! Now I'm going to three or four stores for the same things I used to
go to one store for, and getting really exhausted in the process!
> I will let you know if the additional fish body oil helps.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
I know what it's like not to have the money for the supplements you
need. I just went through several weeks of chest pain and shortness of
breath because I couldn't afford my Coenzyme Q10. Feel much better now
that I have it. Hope you are feeling better soon and have the money to
buy the supplements you need.
I'm going to win the lottery and set up a fund for CFS patients to buy
supplements! Or I would if I ever bought a ticket and played Lotto.
Cathy
| |
| bobbie sellers 2006-10-23, 9:32 pm |
| Hi CB, on 10/21/06, you wrote:
> bliss@CALIFORNIA.COM wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I have never liked them much except that lately they have had
> very inexpensive frozen dinners and quite often that is all I
> can find the energy to cook or plan, so I have been shopping
> there more.
I wish I could eat frozen dinners really I do but usually
they feature ingredients I should avoid like cow milk solids
and wheat flour or extracts.
> Didn't know that Tilapia was a warm water fish. Does it have a
> lot of contaminants? Thanks for the info. Sorry my advice was
> off-base. I don't eat Salmon, don't like the flavor much.
I don't know about contaminants in Tilapia but the warm
water species generally don't produce the oils we need. The
farm raised salmon generally doesn't have the same amount or
quality of oils as the cold water fish body oils.
You would like the canned salmon I get for about a dollar
a can at the Walgreen's even less. But it is good protein and
I can use the change from turkey. 4 protein servings for a
dollar is good enough to account for lack of good flavor and
the fresh green onions and the other spices I use help the
flavor. The salmon is the smaller variety and it could fit
easily in the one lb can with some easy cutting.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Mmmm. . . I've been craving pot roast lately.
> Having to shop around for good prices is getting really
> problematic for me! Now I'm going to three or four stores for
> the same things I used to go to one store for, and getting
> really exhausted in the process!
I have been doing that for at least 20 years. But I try not
to go to any one place more often than weekly. The ones that
are farther away are about as much exercise as I can handle
in one burst. I take the bus back from the more distant ones
usually with my bag of whatever groceries or supplements.
> I know what it's like not to have the money for the supplements
> you need. I just went through several weeks of chest pain and
> shortness of breath because I couldn't afford my Coenzyme Q10.
> Feel much better now that I have it. Hope you are feeling
> better soon and have the money to buy the supplements you need.
> I'm going to win the lottery and set up a fund for CFS patients
> to buy supplements! Or I would if I ever bought a ticket and
> played Lotto.
I am in the same position as every time I have bought a
lotto ticket I regretted the unproductive expenditure before the
end of the month. Managed to keep from buying any tickets for
several years now.
Take good care of yourself. Cathy and don't lose any sleep
over other matters.
later
Bobbie Sellers
--
bobbie sellers - (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA*
an exhausted former nurse in San Francisco
bliss at california dot com
Do it for the Widow's Son.
A*nd don't forget the Widow's Daughter!*
**
| |
|
| Hi Everyone,
Thanks so much to so many of you who have given me helpful ideas.
I've been thinking about Ron Phillip's discussion about C.Pn. I
keep hearing/reading more and more about various bacterial
infections, including this one, as being possibly connected to C.
Pn. Lyme disease is another, and there are many others. So it has
made me curious about whether I may have something like this. I have
had heart symptoms off and on for many years, and echocardiograms
(etc) don't show anything.
I saw a fairly well-known doctor/CFS specialist around 1997 named
Jesse Stoff who was doing what seemed like (and may have been)
cutting- edge diagnostics, under the theory that CFS has a bacterial
component. His theory was that the bacteria connected with CFS was a
"spirochete," which basically defines a type of bacteria that's
shaped something like a microscopic cork screw. Lyme disease
bacteria is a spirochete, but there are many others types of
spirochetes, some of which have not yet been classified.
Dr. Stoff sent my blood samples to a scientist at Texas A&M
University who was studying the possible spirochete connection to
many chronic illnesses including CFS and MS. So, my tests, according
to Stoff, showed that I indeed had a spirochete in my blood. He said
that the treatment would be a long-term antibiotic protocol.
However, I decided not to try the antibiotic protocol. It sounded
risky to me--I guess because for so many years I had the impression
that prolonged antibiotic use can be a health risk in itself. I'm
not sure if this is actually true--maybe there are, in fact, safe
ways to take antibiotics for extended periods. But I have had
candida in the past (can be caused by antibitotics). I have also
always assumed that antibiotics are over-proscribed in our country,
and that they should be the last resort when you're sick, and should
be used minimally. I had heard/read that prolonged use could
actually weaken the immune system, because the body becomes
dependent on the antibiotics, and thus the body's ability to fight
off infection on its own is weakened. And since my immune system is
quite weak--a really bum immune system--I thought that prolonged
antibiotic use sounded a bit scary.
I'm not knocking prolonged use of antibiotics. I'm actually
considering it now for myself. I'm just wondering if anyone (who has
a compromised immune system like me) has tried it, and if they have,
what has been the result? Has it helped? Has it caused more problems?
I'd love to hear from people about their experiences with this.
Other questions for folks: What else are people doing to boost
their immune systems? What has really helped? Fore years now, no
matter what I do, I seem to get flus and infections at the drop of a
hat. (Or, perhaps these are just flare-ups of the same dormant
bacteria...who knows?) I'm an expert at managing stress, resting,
gentle physical activity, getting support, eating healthy (organic/no
sugar/no junk, etc), and taking multivitamins--all the basic healthy
stuff. But what about stuff specifically for the immune system? I
was reading about colostrum, and I'm wondering if its similar in
affect to undenatured whey protein. Anyone know? I was also
wondering about CoQ10, something called Biomune (tablets from Matol
company), fish oil, garlic caps, Barlean's Oil, Mannatech products,
and some kind of mushroom in a tablet (Maitake or something like
that)...any of these worked for folks? I dont have big bucks, so it
would be great to choose the most effective stuff, from reliable
companies.
And finally--does anyone have any experience with doctor Jesse
Stoff? I'm not sure if he's still practicing, but has anyone seen
him presently or in the past? I'm thinking of finding him again and
re-visiting the spirochete protocol. He's a really nice guy, but I'm
just wondering if others have had luck with him as a doctor.
Thanks for your time.
Sincerely,
Lisi
On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:05 PM, bobbie sellers wrote:
> Hi CB, on 10/21/06, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I wish I could eat frozen dinners really I do but usually
> they feature ingredients I should avoid like cow milk solids
> and wheat flour or extracts.
>
>
> I don't know about contaminants in Tilapia but the warm
> water species generally don't produce the oils we need. The
> farm raised salmon generally doesn't have the same amount or
> quality of oils as the cold water fish body oils.
>
> You would like the canned salmon I get for about a dollar
> a can at the Walgreen's even less. But it is good protein and
> I can use the change from turkey. 4 protein servings for a
> dollar is good enough to account for lack of good flavor and
> the fresh green onions and the other spices I use help the
> flavor. The salmon is the smaller variety and it could fit
> easily in the one lb can with some easy cutting.
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been doing that for at least 20 years. But I try not
> to go to any one place more often than weekly. The ones that
> are farther away are about as much exercise as I can handle
> in one burst. I take the bus back from the more distant ones
> usually with my bag of whatever groceries or supplements.
>
>
>
> I am in the same position as every time I have bought a
> lotto ticket I regretted the unproductive expenditure before the
> end of the month. Managed to keep from buying any tickets for
> several years now.
>
> Take good care of yourself. Cathy and don't lose any sleep
> over other matters.
>
> later
> Bobbie Sellers
>
> --
> bobbie sellers - (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA*
> an exhausted former nurse in San Francisco
> bliss at california dot com
>
> Do it for the Widow's Son.
> A*nd don't forget the Widow's Daughter!*
> **
| |
| bobbie sellers 2006-11-07, 4:49 pm |
| Hi Elise, on 10/25/06, you wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> Thanks so much to so many of you who have given me helpful
> ideas.
> I've been thinking about Ron Phillip's discussion about C.Pn.
> I keep hearing/reading more and more about various bacterial
> infections, including this one, as being possibly connected to
> C. Pn. Lyme disease is another, and there are many others. So
> it has made me curious about whether I may have something like
> this. I have had heart symptoms off and on for many years, and
> echocardiograms (etc) don't show anything.
The symptoms of the heart infection are very subtle.
> I saw a fairly well-known doctor/CFS specialist around 1997
> named Jesse Stoff who was doing what seemed like (and may have
> been) cutting- edge diagnostics, under the theory that CFS has
> a bacterial component. His theory was that the bacteria
> connected with CFS was a "spirochete," which basically defines
> a type of bacteria that's shaped something like a microscopic
> cork screw. Lyme disease bacteria is a spirochete, but there
> are many others types of spirochetes, some of which have not
> yet been classified.
> Dr. Stoff sent my blood samples to a scientist at Texas A&M
> university who was studying the possible spirochete connection
> to many chronic illnesses including CFS and MS. So, my tests,
> according to Stoff, showed that I indeed had a spirochete in my
> blood. He said that the treatment would be a long-term
> antibiotic protocol.
You might have missed your chance for a cure there but
Dr.Jesse J. Stoff, M.D. has made some misteps on his path.
This is what I found on Google as practically the first
reference.
<http://www.mlmwatch.org/06FTC/BodyW...dywiseftc2.html>
It relates how he made claims for a product sold by
a company, BodyWise and how the FTC settled the matter.
No matter how learned he may be we may be denied the benefit
of his learning if he doesn't learn to work legally.
> However, I decided not to try the antibiotic protocol. It
> sounded risky to me--I guess because for so many years I had
> the impression that prolonged antibiotic use can be a health
> risk in itself. I'm not sure if this is actually true--maybe
> there are, in fact, safe ways to take antibiotics for extended
> periods. But I have had candida in the past (can be caused by
> antibitotics). I have also always assumed that antibiotics are
> over-proscribed in our country, and that they should be the
> last resort when you're sick, and should be used minimally. I
> had heard/read that prolonged use could actually weaken the
> immune system, because the body becomes dependent on the
> antibiotics, and thus the body's ability to fight off infection
> on its own is weakened. And since my immune system is quite
> weak--a really bum immune system--I thought that prolonged
> antibiotic use sounded a bit scary.
[Major snippage to save the legendary bandwith]
Well it might sound scary but did you know that syphillis
is caused by a spirochete? One of our old members has this
insidious illness and it took his atypical case literally years
to be finally diagnosed by spinal tap. He was treated
sucessfully and had managed to work in audio(TBMR) thoughout
his illness. He ended up with about half his brain consumed
by the neuro-sysphillis but was able to keep up his end of
things here which tells us something about the level of discourse
between us.
later
Bobbie Sellers
--
bobbie sellers - an exhausted, former nurse in San Francisco
bliss at california dot com
The Rule of Fives states that all things happen in fives, or
are divisible by or are multiples of five, or are somehow
directly or indirectly related to five. The Rule of Fives is
never wrong. (Well hardly ever.)
| |
|
| Dear Bobbie,
Well, you are so great for taking the time to respond to my letter !
I appreciate SO much your info--especially the stuff about Dr.
Stoff! Very interesting...
Unfortunately, I think that a bunch of your text was cut out of the
version of your letter that I received, because the phrase :"major
snippage to save the legendary bandwidth" exists in it, right between
where I wrote "I thought that prolonged antibiotic use sounded a bit
scary," and where you wrote "Well, it might sound scary, but did you
know that syphilis is a spirochete?"
Anyway, I'm very curious to know what was cut out of this, as I'm
very interested in all you had to say in your letter! So...if it's
not too much trouble, could you please send me the missing part of
your original letter?
Thanks so much!
Elise ( also known as Lisi)
On Oct 25, 2006, at 5:09 PM, bobbie sellers wrote:
> Hi Elise, on 10/25/06, you wrote:
>
>
> The symptoms of the heart infection are very subtle.
>
>
> You might have missed your chance for a cure there but
> Dr.Jesse J. Stoff, M.D. has made some misteps on his path.
>
> This is what I found on Google as practically the first
> reference.
>
> <http://www.mlmwatch.org/06FTC/BodyW...dywiseftc2.html>
>
> It relates how he made claims for a product sold by
> a company, BodyWise and how the FTC settled the matter.
> No matter how learned he may be we may be denied the benefit
> of his learning if he doesn't learn to work legally.
>
>
>
> [Major snippage to save the legendary bandwith]
>
> Well it might sound scary but did you know that syphillis
> is caused by a spirochete? One of our old members has this
> insidious illness and it took his atypical case literally years
> to be finally diagnosed by spinal tap. He was treated
> sucessfully and had managed to work in audio(TBMR) thoughout
> his illness. He ended up with about half his brain consumed
> by the neuro-sysphillis but was able to keep up his end of
> things here which tells us something about the level of discourse
> between us.
> later
> Bobbie Sellers
>
> --
> bobbie sellers - an exhausted, former nurse in San Francisco
> bliss at california dot com
>
> The Rule of Fives states that all things happen in fives, or
> are divisible by or are multiples of five, or are somehow
> directly or indirectly related to five. The Rule of Fives is
> never wrong. (Well hardly ever.)
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