| The_Fershtunken_Beef_Stroganoff_Council_@HotMail.C 2006-06-28, 9:20 pm |
| HOWEDY todd h.,
Todd H. wrote:
> Craig Bailey <ccb@floydianslip.com> writes:
>
THAT'S EZ, todd h. You can TRAIN ANY dog not to EAT or DO ANY
THING in just a matter of a few moments if you know HOWE <{}; ~ ) >
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I believe dogs will always go for catfood since
> it has a higher protein content than dog food.
That's a ABSURD FAERIE TAIL, todd h.. <{): ~ ( >
> I'm not sure if this is the why of it all,
Perhaps you could CITE some RESEARCH documenting that suppHOWEsition?
> but I do know that every dog that can will go after cat food
Kinda like FORBIDDEN FRUIT, eh todd h.?
> and that it's not necessarily good for em.
You got ANY scientific documentation to that suppHOWEsition, todd h.?
> Just move the cat food to a level or location
> the cat can get to but the dog can't,
You mean AVOID the PROBLEM, todd h.? Is THAT HOWE
you engineer your IT and EE STUFF, todd h.? PERHAPS
THAT'S HOWE COME folks HATE Microsoft STUFF on accHOWENT
of their IT guys DON'T SOLVE PROBLEMS, the AVOID THEM
and in so doin, CREATE GREATER PROBLEMS which causes
their competition tocry FHOWEL, todd h..
> and the problem is easily rectified.
You mean, LIKE THIS, todd h.?:
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST
It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out
of a cat bowl without too much difficulty.
My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around the
bowls :-)
I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
anytime the dogs tried to eat the cats food, followed
with immediate praise. It worked a treat.
The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there is
food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we go
out and leave the dogs with access inside through a dog
door.
Paul
--
Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.
See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ etc at my homepage.....
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/paulbousie/index.html
Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01) so keep coming back!!!
---------------
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a
blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
===================
> Best Regards,
ELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizards'
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >
I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard AIN'T NEW new to
this group, OR the science of behavior and I do see whereof you
speak.
There are some on The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizards' 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual
Forums who overreact, whether it be from fear, ignorameHOWES
thinkin just plain STUPIDITY and resort to avoidance or abusive
trainin methods and when called on it, resort to childish name
calling and profanity.
Although The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard
has never seen anything as extreme as what HE sees here,
except possibly in the parenting / children news groups and
there at least the abusive cowardly ignorameHOWES posters
consistently identifies himself and his politically oriented
posts.
Seems some of us just can't cope with seein HOWER OWN FAILURE
as it relates to family, dogs, or business and will do and say
ANYTHING to AVOID facin their own inner selves <{}; ~ ) >
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard thinks trolls DO
NOT live for attention, but rather, to DEFEND their fragile
defective egos, weak fearful minds, and to compensate for their
colossal inferiority complexes, so any response validates their
behavior and encourages more.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard seriHOWESLY PREYS
you will have an epiphany and rehabilitate your sorry assed self.
It's a shame, because even trolls often have some valid points,
although in your case, there are NO REDEEMING qualities. You are
a pathetic dog abusing coward, and PROBABLY a parent of abused
children, they go hand in glove, so to speak (a metaphor) <{): ~ ( >
HOWEver, their excessive verbage and use of expletives and CAPS
for emphasis cause people to ignore their messages completely,
even if they might have something useful to say, like your ADVICE
to read the Monkeys Of Not So New Skeete:
Here's the skinny on your viciHOWES dog abusing coward monks:
HOWEDY tommy,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> Suja <spanaval@scs.gmu.edu> wrote in
> news:xpPHe.440$ah4.103@lakeread05:
>
You'd be VERY SURPRISED to see the kinda money Uncle
Sam and your state and local polices are PAYIN for
"SELECTIVELY BRED K-9's" like lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn's SAR dog JIVE. You remember him tommy, HE RETIRED
pryor to EVER WORKIN a SAR site and has of late been
FAILING in the sheep herding ring, since sufferin JOB
BURNHOWET in SAR work... too much RESPONSIBILITY for
him, eh tommy?
[vbcol=seagreen]
UNLESS THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOIN, like lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn, FOR EXXXAMPLE <{); ~ ) >
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Hark!
Show a little leg, tommy.
> Never let it be said that Handsome Jack Morrison
> doesn't go the extra mile in his pursuit of Truth,
> Justice and the American Way.
But OF CURSE! You S-HOWEND just like captain arthur
haggerty, your MENTOR, and his flunky pal STUDENT
booby maida, another fighter for truth and justice
and the AMERICAN WAY just like yourself, tommy.
> I just got off the phone with Fr. Mark at the Monks,
Ain't THAT charmin, eh tommy? Did you IDENTIFY YOURSELF
or did you go by your false name of joey finnochario like
you used when you looked up The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
records at Orlando City Hall, eh tommy?
> and he said that the price for Monks pups at the current
> time is $2000 (recently raised from $1750, because they
> breed less often these days).
Meanin since the GSD has been on the DECLINE due to
heelth and temperament PROBLEMS reported RIGHT HERE
on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Forums, eh tommy?
> They've *never* sold one for more than $3500, and that
> was for a fully-trained *adult* GSD, with OTCH prospects
You mean he wasn't even started, tommy.
> (for a comparison, it's not that rare for FC retrievers
> to change hands for 6 figure amounts).
INDEEDY? But not through a PUPPY MILLER like yourself, tommy.
> They also put *each* dog that's in their breeding program
> through the standard battery of health testing, including
> hips, elbows, eyes, vWD, etc., but he wasn't sure what the
> entire protocol was.
That's EZ tommy, it's been written abHOWET RIGHT HERE
by your own punk thug coward mental case pal Master Of
Deception blankman. She sez they say they STRESS their
puppies in a variety of ways to make them better...
"I know not everyone is comfortable with the modified
Koehler style promoted by the Monks -"
And she's a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE herself,
just like you, tommy, ain't that the TRUTH?
But we wasn't talkin abHOWET her, we was talkin abHOWET you:
You sez:
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
And then you sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
> He's going to have Fr. John call me back with more information.
Yeah, but you're a PROVEN LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE
and YOU MAKE MONEY off of SELLIN THEIR BOOKS and MOVIES,
tommy, so your WORD is that of a SPAMMER and SCAMMER, to boot:
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
> [Fr. John just called me back(on my cell phone), but I
> was in my truck and apparently in a dead zone of some kind,
You been in a DEAD ZONE since DAY WON P.T.A.P.W.E. (Pryor
to The Amazing Puppy Wizard Era). BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAAA!!!
> so we couldn't hear each other very well.
NO PROBLEMO, tommy. We'll just accept you WORD for
what you'd LIKE us to BELIEVE.
LIKE THIS:
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/17
Subject: Re: Training book by a bunch of monks
Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest, Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:22:02 GMT,
khay...@cave-systems.on.ca (Kevin Haryett) says:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
*Very* good book...but forget the stuff about "alpha rolls."
--
Dogman
From: bob...@aol.com (Bob Maida)
Date: 2000/06/24
Subject: Re: Best behavior book?
HI,
2 books, I would recommed are Understanding Your
Dog by Dr Michael Fox Mother Knows Best by Carol
Benjamin The Art of Raising A Puppy by The Monks of
New Skete (and NO, the Monks book does not have the
"alpha roll" in it)
------------------
Seems WON of you BELIEVERS in TRUTH JUSTICE and
The AMERICAN WAY is a doGgamened LIAR, eh tommy?
We know who THAT is, tommy... it's YOUR PAL gumbah
booby maida, captain arthur haggerty's PROTEGE.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAAHHAHAAAA!!!
NOT FOR NUTHIN, other than to substantiate
that you mentally ill lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases will do and say ANY
THING to defend your alleged RIGHT to HURT
INTIMDIATE and MURDER innocent critters.
> We arranged for me to call him back tomorrow,
> this time on a land line, to discuss it further.
What's to DISCUSS, tommy? You're a liar and dog
abuser like your mentally ill pat booby, and the
monks are a bunch of heavy handed ignorant puppy
milling LHOWETS, like yourself, tommy.
> He said he was very happy to talk about it,
That so? Let's talk abHOWET YOUR DOGS, tommy?
Let's talk abHOWET your CHUMPION FIELD DOGS,
eh tommy? AIN'T YOU PRHOWED of your kennels?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> because they were very proud of the testing they do,
That so? And they're VERY PRHOWED of THIS:
From: "Jerry Howe" <j...@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/09/19
Subject: The Monks Of New Skete
Recommend These Disciplinary Measures:
The Monks look charming on the outside, but
they have heavy handed techniques.
I've seen advice as to how to hit your dog coming
from them, and lots of other non productive, even
dangerous advice.
While I realize that your definition of abuse differs
greatly from mine, I have spent most of the last thirty-
six years retraining dogs brought up and trained by
abusive techniques.
In The Art of Raising a Puppy , copyright 1991, the
Monks of New Skete recommend these disciplinary measures:
1. Scruff shake. (recommended for puppies, 8-12 weeks)
Grab scruff of neck, shake firmly, bark "NO!"
2. Shakedown. Grab sides of throat with both hands,
lifting dog's front feet off floor, stare, shake
several times, and bark "NO!"
3. "Using a firm cuff underneath the chin with your
opened hand...To make this correction effectively,
your dog must be anchored in a sitting position with
your left hand holding onto his collar.
As you make eye contact with your dog, cuff the
underside of his mouth with your opened right
hand, rapping him sharply several times, as you
say NO!" (recommended for 5-6 month old puppies)
4. Stick finger down throat to stop mouthing or
squeeze and shake muzzle hard enough to elicit
a whine, and bark "NO!"
5. To stop jumping, grab front paws of jumping
pup, and force him to remain in that position
long enough to become uncomfortable.
6. Leash Pop with choke collar (Also pupularized
as the Margolis Jerk)
Those actions and attitudes are behaviors your
dog will learn to copy, and apply to you.
Let me start by calling attention to the recent
notoriety of shaken baby syndrome. Although dogs
have a loose scruff, the brain damage can result
just the same, and disk damage may occur.
The ubiquitous leash pop is my number one gripe.
It is recommended and used by almost everyone.
The sharp corrections on leash continue throughout
the life of the dog.
It is recommended they be increased in severity
and frequency as the dog becomes more resistant
and the trainer thinks the dog knows what is
expected of him but the dog refuses to do it.
(Dogs don't do things out of spite!) Nerve damage
can result from leash corrections. Makes me nauseous
to hear people say that dogs don't feel pain the
same way we do.
As a society we don't condone treating our children
or employees that way. What makes abuse O.K. for
animals? Force, abuse, and punishment do not have
any place in a learning environment!
Most of the mistakes our dogs make are not even
understood by the dog to be mistakes. The punishment
is not understood, and behavior problems result
from the abuse.
BUT YOU SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
HOWE abHOWET all them DEAD DOGS you TRAINED RIGHT
HERE that your TERRORIZM DIDN'T SAVE, tommy?
Like Robert Crim's, kwbrown's, laura arlov's,
tara o.' DEAD DOGS, FOR EXXXAMPLE, tommy?
> and the dogs they produce.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:
From: Tara <taragre...@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT
Subject: Re: good dog training books?
I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.
IMO, their methods actually made the underlying problems
*worse*. In three cases, where they both bred and trained
the dogs, they subsequently washed their hands of the dogs
and suggested euthanasia....and then promptly tried to
talk the owners into taking another one of their own pups.
<snip>
Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)
Tara
Of curse SHE'S likeWIZE, a DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, eh tommy?
> He named his vet, a Dr. Wolski, and welcomed me
> to call him, too. I can get the number tomorrow,
> when I call again. Yes, I intend to report back
> tomorrow,
Well that's kindly of you, tommy... considerin
YOUR BUSINESS DEPENDS on SELLIN THEIR BOOKS.
> after we've talked and I've gathered
> additional information FIRST-HAND.
Yeah, but comin from you tommy, it's WORTHLESS, at best.
Your WORD AIN'T NO GOOD here abHOWETS, tommy.
> He also welcomed me to drop by for a visit.
THEY SELL PUPPIES, tommy, and he's 2,000 miles away.
> The Monks are always happy to have people visit,
> and no appointment is required. Yep, sounds just
> like a puppy mill to me...sheesh.]
INDEEDY! They got a VERY WELL STAFFED PUPPY MILL.
> I also recommended to him that they might want
> to put something on their website about the testing.
You AIN'T blaming BAD TEMPERAMENTS on GENES again,
are you tommY? Do they got a GENTIC TEST for FEAR
AGGRESSION, tommy?
> They have their own way of testing temperaments,
THEY HURT INTIMIDATE AND MURDER DOGS, like HOWE you do, tommy.
> of which they write about in their books.
THEY'RE DOG ABUSERS AND THEY ADMIT IT:
> A quote from the Monks:
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME the GSD 'WENT INTO DECLINE,' eh tommy?
[vbcol=seagreen]
Sez WHO?
[vbcol=seagreen]
A GUIDE???
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> And I think that if you poke around a bit, that's
> more like what you'll hear from the vast majority
> of current Monks owners, too.
You mean, all but those who GOT BURNED by their PUPPY
MILL STOCK and their ABUSIVE METHODS, tommy?
> The Monks pace their breedings to the numbers of
> monks they have on hand and available for assignment
> to the pups.
INDEED?
> When they have more monks in residence, they are
> able to produce more pups, and vice versa. They
> have fewer monks these days, so they're producing
> fewer pups.
So as their monkey shines are on the decline, likeWIZE
their PUPPY MILL BUSINESS, tommy? BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAA!!!
> Demand for their pups has never been greater.
Accordin to WHOM, tommy?
> But they no longer allow names to be placed on a waiting list.
> They just can't deal with the demand, so they don't even try.
That's ABSURD, tommy.
> When they do plan a breeding, they are now going to
> announce it on their web site, and then take reservations
> for pups (which may or may not be honored, depending on
> the litter size.) First come, first served. Then they'll
> start the process all over again for the next planned breeding.
>
> At least that's the current plan.
So, after all these years they're STILL FIGGRERIN IT HOWET, tommy?
In keepin with TRUE puppy mill fashion, eh tommy?
[vbcol=seagreen]
Well, tommy can just ask friar tuck when he speaks
to him tommorow to verify that they're not dog abusing
puppy millers like hisself. BWEEEEAAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Then why even pass it on?
On accHOWENT of you're dealin with DOG
ABUSING MENTAL CASES, tommy. IT DON'T
MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE IS, you're DEALIN
WITH DOG ABUSING LYIN MENTAL CASES here.
From: "dogtraining" <b...@basta.net>
Date: 1999/03/29
Subject: Re: Monks (was Lab. Puppy questions)
The Monks live in New Skette (spelling not sure) which
is upstate New York... the system they use is by having
the dog all day with them while they eat, work, and talk
to god... they are monks of the greek ortodox church (I
believe...) the system is excelent providing you do not
condem "harsh" methods...!
I hope the information is useful to you....
Regards
> Hopefully it didn't come from the same person
> who claimed to have paid $7000 for her PUPPY(!)?
Well, some folks will say ANY THING to make themselves
S-HOWEN MOORE IMPORTANT than they really are, eh tommy?
> Maybe you were taught in school to rely on third-hand
> information, and not just second-hand information(!),
> right? So why not go for broke,
And take tommy's word for it.
> and now try relying on fourth or even fifth-hand
> information, the next time you decide to slander
> a breeder's reputation?
Like yours, tommy? You're a ETHICKAL BREEDER yet
you REFUSE TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF and IN FACT DENY
who you are KNOWN TO BE. You DO REMEMBER HOWER
CONVERSATION on YOUR PHONE at tommy sorenson's
PUPPY MILL, tommy? DON'T YOU? You didn't wanna
TALK BUSINESS with The Amazing Puppy Wizard on
accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog abusing punk thug
coward mental case puppy miller.
> Maybe you can find someone who talked to someone
> who talked to someone who said that she got it
> from her cousin, twice removed, who got it from
> her landlady's maid, who got it from her sister's
> chauffeur, who overheard it being whispered into
> a cell phone by a swarthy looking gentleman standing
> on the corner of Fifth and Broadway, and wearing a
> backpack?
INDEED THAT would be MOORE RELIABLE than RELYING on
the WORD of the BOOK SALESMAN for the DOG ABUSERS
and PUPPY MILLERS.
> You are either a very naive person, or you're not
> nearly as smart as I once thought you were.
Sez it all, eh tommy?
>
>
> Keep in mind that the monks, compared with most breeders,
Like yourself, tommy? TELL US abHOWET YOUR OWN KENNELS, tommy?
> have a *lot* of help.
AS EXXXAMPLED by your pal lying frosty dahl when
she DISCOVERED CANNIBALISM in Labradorable dogs
when she left a NEW MOM with her litter so she
could SELL PUPPIES, REMEMBER tommy?
> That is, each and every monk has puppy
> raising/training responsibilities.
THEY HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs, tommy.
> They also have the help of a nearby convent,
> staffed with nuns, if they need more help.
So that LEGITIMIZES their PUPPY MILL and ABUSE?
PERHAPS the good Sisters are trying to SAVE THEM, tommy,
JUST LIKE HOWE you SAVE DOGS from the needle, eh tommy?
> They don't compete with their dogs because they have
> prayer and chapel responsibilities to tend to on week-ends,
That so? Are they SeventhDayEpiscopalJews, tommy?
They got HIGHER BUSINESS dealin on Saturday AND Sunday?
> when most competitions are being held.
You mean as a PROFESSIONAL SHOW DOG BREEDER and TRAINER
you don't know they got THURSDAY FRIDAY and MONDAY SHOWES?
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
There's NEVER been such a LAME EXXXCUSE as THAT WON, tommy.
> They do however strongly encourage their buyers to
> compete and test, etc., and they rely on their results
> and periodic reports back to them for additional breeding
> information.
Oh GOODY! You can LOOK UP THEIR SHOWE DOG HISTORY in AKC, tommy.
HOWE many monks dogs do you SEE makin CHUMPIONSHIPS?
PERHAPS it's just the TERMINOLOGY, eh tommy? PUPPY MILLER
kinda makes your skin itch, don't it, tommy. Let's talk
abHOWET tommy soronen's kennels, MO, USA, tommy? You're
RIGHT IN THE HEART of PUPPY MILL COUNTRY, ain't you, tommy.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> []
Ask brother john or friar tuck if they ACCPET their
REJECTED PUPPIES back from their BUYERS with a FULL
REFUND, like ANY ETHICKAL BREEDER DOES, eh tommy?
Naaah, they're a bunch of IGNORAMUSES, like tommy
and the rest of these lying dog abusing punk thug
coward MENTAL CASES who post their IDIOCY here abHOWETS.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> What *proof* do you have that the Monks have ever
> done anything in an unethical way?
Only REPORTED CASE HISTORIES we got RIGHT HERE,
and the INFORMATION in their very own books, tommy.
> Even once?
We've been through that a few times already, tommy.
You MENTAL CASES got a HABIT of askin the SAME IDIOTIC
QUESTIONS despite having GOT the IDIOTIC TRUTH answered,
when YOU DON'T LIKE THE TRUTH, tommy.
> Sheesh.
Yeah.. you DENY the TRUTH and EXXXPET folks to
BELIEVE an anonymHOWES VULGAR DOG ABUSING COWARD
like yourself, an ANONYMHOWES COWARD and LIAR,
tommy, like yourself. A LYING DOG ABUSING ANONYMHOWES
PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASE, like yourself, tommy.
Of curse, tommy. They mighta made a little MISTAKE.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> What kind of puppy mill has a monk assigned to *each*
> puppy at birth, and who then gets to live inside with
> the monk, who then cares for him, socializes him, trains
> him, feeds him, etc., until he's old enough to eventually
> be sold to his permanent owners?
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! THEY'RE DOG ABUSERS LIKE YOURSELF.
From: x...@yyy.berkeley.edu
Date: 1995/05/13
Subject: Re: GSD pups from the Monks of New Skete; how much?
I have met a couple of GSDs from their breeding and have
found them to be on the shy to timid side. However, I
have no idea what their owners were like and how much
socialization they provided, etc. Just don't expect
miracles because someone is an author.
> Take as long as you need to find one.
THEY'RE A FULLY STAFFED PUPPY MILL, tommy. BIG DEAL.
THEY HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs, tommy.
>
> Yeah, I know. You can't help yourself from
> slandering people, a la Jerry Howe.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard aka Jerry HOWE don't know
or CARE abHOWET the monkies BREEDING practices, HE
only cares abHOWET their ABUSE of innocent dumb
critters in their BOOKS that YOU SELL, REMEMBER tommy?
> What a piece of work you turned out to be.
Let's not throw the baby HOWET with the bathwater, eh tommy?
> Sheesh.
Let's talk abHOWET beatin dogs to HOWEsbreak them, tommy?
> By the way, you might want to call this number:
>
> 518-677-3828
>
> Ask for Fr. John.
>
> He also invites you (or anyone else) to visit
> the Monks facilities, too.
THEY SELL PUPPIES, tommy. THEY NEED folks to SEE THEIR PUPPIES.
> Yep, they really sound like a puppy mill.
INDEEDY, tommy. A FULLY STAFFED PUPPY MILL.
But THAT AIN'T THE PROBLEM, tommy:
From: "Kieron Dodds" <nospam.kdo...@nospam.email.msn.com>
Date: 1998/03/15
Subject: Re: Monks of New Skete
Just as a bit of a counterpoint, my trainer has a Great
Pyrenees looking for a home right now that was *ruined*
by these books. Not all methods are valid for all dogs
or all owners or all dog/owner combinations.
While these books may work for you and others and dogs
you have worked, I've found the practices within to be
significantly less reliable than other methods, even
when properly applied, especially the "shake", even if
the methods do work for many owners and dogs.
Personally, I've seen far too many disastrous results
to recommend these books to anyone (sight unseen).
IOW, one can't really recommend a book or method without
first evaluating the owner/dog combo and anyone reading
such recommendations should remember this and remember
to try other methods when the ones they are using fail.
> <boggle>
You want BOGGLE, tommy?:
From: "Avrama Gingold" <avr...@mindspring.com>
Date: 1999/11/25
Subject: Re: Recommendations on Puppy training Books
Personally, I do not care for the Monks book.
(Even Job Michael Evans, one of its two co-authors,
later rethought the "alpha roll" advice.)
My main objection is that it assumes the dog will
be raised in the same kind of milieu as the New
Skete monastery, which is very far from accurate.
But we KNOW professora "CHIN CHUCK ABSOLUTELY
DOESN'T MEAN HIT THE DOG" gingold is likeWIZE
a LIAR and DOG ABUSER, ain't that correct, tommy.
Let's talk abHOWET your kennels, tommy. You MUST
be VERY PRHOWED of your dogs. Too bad you're SO
HUMBLE you WON'T BRAG on your own KENNEL NAME, tommy.
AIN'T IT.
> The horror. The horror.
No, the HORROR is, you're a liar and dog abusing
coward and you're AFRAID to ADMIT WHO YOU ARE.
But THAT'S IN The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
from that nite you and tommy and joey got STIFF
and FORGOT to CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME and email
address and sent TOMMY SORONSEN'S email into US
RIGHT HERE... then you DENIED it again... despite
The Amazing Puppy Wizard TALKIN TO YOU on the phone
after HE got your number from HERE, tommy.
LIKE THIS:
From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls at
me sometimes. When he growls at me he stares
me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should
not be allowed to do that. They suggest shaking
down the dog by grabing the dog on the sides of
his neck and picking him off his front feet, then
giving the dog the same sort of treatment the dog
would give another if it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting the
dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was
not convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this
dog that might help him to decide that he
wants to follow and that he has nothing to
fear from me?
Special aside from michael to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard:
---------------- CAVEAT -------------------------
Now HOWE, you have had your say. Just shut up and
let these other people have a chance to say something
themselves. Your name calling and insults are not necessary.
I have all the information from you I need. I also have
my OWN mind and I need to make up MY OWN MIND.
I'm sorry but I am not one of your dogs, get it?
-------------------END CAVEAT
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
>
Here's a few UNBIASED reviews of the BOOKS YOU SELL, tommy:
From: black...@dog-play.com
Date: 1997/12/21
Subject: Monks of New Skete - video review
Tape 1:
Although it was interesting I think it won't be
"useful" to the average person who resorts to video
tape. It did not appear to have a teaching goal
beyond a general explanation of philosophy. The
presentation was so rambling that it left a general
impression, but nothing concrete in my mind.
If you are general new to dogs or dog training I don't
think this tape will offer a flash of enlightenment.
Tape 2:
I just don't think that the average newbie is going to
look at it as say "Its important to me to find out how my
breeder raised the puppy before I got it."
As a primary source of information on puppy socialization
the tape fails except for those people who are skilled at
extracting information from the documentary format. For
many people information needs to be presented in a more
bulleted format to communicate and educate successfully.
The downside is that the person viewing the tape may
have a dog with a very different basic temperament
than the GSDs favored by the Monks.
Properly applying the techniques used to different
temperaments may take a level of sensitivity that
many novice owners lack. For that reason I think that
another video - Ian Dunbar's "Sirius Puppy Training"
was more successful in achieving a good introduction
to starting the puppy off right.
The primary caution I would give is the same as before -
the dogs used are primarily stout of temperament - some
are over rambunctious and friendly-dominent - but the
full scope of temperaments was not addressed.
All the dogs were large breeds. The methodology can be
useful to all breeds - large and small - but some adjustment
needs to be made for both size and temperament.
I don't think enough attention was given to that aspect.
So if you have a dog over say 40 pounds, and the dog is
neither fearful nor growling/biting, then this tape can
provide some useful advice and demonstration.
The timing and reactions of the Monks is a skill
that has been learned to the point that it becomes
automatic.
Although they explain what they are doing and why
in my experience it is really hard for the novice
to just see how what they are doing is different.
I know not everyone is comfortable with
the modified Koehler style promoted by
the Monks -
From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/08/21
Subject: Re: Monks of New Skeet & "praise"
On a cold day in Hell, Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:38:38 GMT,
sekh...@removeme.4thcoast.com (Rebecca Allbritton) wrote:
>
> In "How to be Your Dog's Best Friend," the Monks have a
> section on praise. They advise something that I'm not sure
> I agree with them about, but I may not be thinking of it
> in the same way they are.
> What they say is that you should only "praise" when the
> dog has done something to be praised for (sit, heel, go
> to the bathroom on command, fetch, etc.)
> I can sort of understand that: I guess you want praise to
> be like a treat, & don't want it to be devalued if they can
> get it for not doing anything.
> Unfortunately, I spend a lot of time just petting my dog,
> telling her how wonderful she is, how good she is & what
> a sweetie she is, while we hang out together.
> I *like* talking to my dog while petting her, or even moving
> about the house doing other stuff. She wags her tail vigorously
> every time she sees me, but gets even happier when she hears my
> voice.
> I guess I have 2 main questions here. First, if you accept the
> idea that you shouldn't praise your dog when it hasn't "worked"
> for it, what exactly *is* praise? My dog doesn't seem able to
> distinguish between "Good Girl!" and "What a Sweetie!" when
> they're said in the same tone of voice (she wags & pants equally
> to both phrases.) Is the praise in the tone of voice, or in the
> key words? How should I talk to my dog when not "praising"?
>Or should I even worry about it?
[...]
Rebecca, I wouldn't worry about this at all, eh?
If your dog is responding well to your training (i.e.,
is performing satisfactorily), keep doing whatever it
is you're doing.
The premise behind witholding praise except for training
is simply as you have already suspected, to increase it's
EFFECT. But if your training is going well, don't let
that stop you from petting your dog, etc., when you're not
training, etc.
The same goes for food rewards (e.g., treats). To make
food more EFFECTIVE, withhold it from the dog when you're
not training and don't train your dog when he has a full
stomach. Wait until he's HUNGRY.
On the other hand, if your dog's mind starts to wander
during training and isn't responding as well as it used
to, cut out all priase except for during training and
for positive responses.
Ciao!
--
Dogman
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) - Find messages by this author
Date: 1999/05/12
Subject: Re: Should I correct my dog's growling?
While I was listening to the Miles Davis CD, "Kind Of Blue," and
drinking a little Booker's, on Wed, 12 May 1999 17:05:19 GMT, canis55
<cani...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> It seems he's growling at you when "your back is turned."
> This may be the result of negative or aversion type training.
> The monks of new skeet (keepers of the alpha wolf flame),
> describe this same behavior in the latter part of they're
> popular book, How To Be Your Best Friend. They say something
> to the effect that the other wolves in the pack will always
> challenge the so called alpha male whenever he is vulnerable
> or becomes weak. Some way to live, huh?
This is just the kind of stupid, cheap shot bull
ca ca I'm always talking about.
This schmuck does absolutely *nothing* to actually help
the poster at all, he just takes shots at the Monks, pack
hierarchy theory, alpha theory, etc. (what? you don't have
any problem with the Theory of Gravity, too?), and automatically
blames this dog's "growling" on negative or aversion type training!
Yet another Kenny Freakin' King wannabe!
Hell, he'd blame cancer on the Monks if he could.
--------------------
GRAVITY IS A LAW, tommy... AIN'T IT.
BREAK IT AND YOU FALL ON YOUR ARSE EVERY TIME.
GUARANTEED.
LIKE THIS:
Here's you beatin a dog to HOWEsbreak it:
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.
> A quote from the Monks:
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com (DogStar716)
> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
> Sheesh.
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.
> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even
> after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -
>
> - Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail
Here, permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to
give you a hand with that little pin, tommy...
There. That's FIXED. ENJOY!
NHOWE START WALKIN THE WALK.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
> --
> Todd H.
> http://www.toddh.net/
Take tommy's hand, todd h., and START WALKIN <{) : ~ ) >
WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizards'
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
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Forums <{); ~ ) >
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Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
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