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Wed 15feb2006 Morning Meds
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| Walt R. 2006-02-16, 11:10 am |
|
Wednesday, February 15th 2006
For the past couple of weeks, I have had a women's closed Big Book
study at my house. We started reading the "forewards" first. Our
discussions have been phenomenal. I really believe that if AA had
stayed the way it was when Bill W. and Dr. Bob started it in the
beginning...we'd all be a lot better off. I worry sometimes, about new
people coming in, that aren't granted the opportunity to actually hit
their bottom. These days, most people run to the nearest rehab or
hospital for some medication that knocks them out for two or three
days, and they never really get to experience a true detoxification
from alcohol. I think that if more alkies skipped the hospital
programs, and came directly to AA, and actually listened to what is
being read and talked about...if they had that chance to shake and bake
until they thought they would die...there would be longer and more
successful periods of sobriety. I know for me, that it is my last
drunk and sobering up that keeps me coming back year after year. If I
had been able to sleep it off in a hospital bed with people taking care
of me round the clock, that last drunk might not have seemed so bad
after all, and I might be drunk again today. I was at death's door
when I came in and I wanted what you all had to offer. AA for me, was
the last house on the block. I thank The Great Whatever every day, for
bringing me to you instead of a hospital. I'm an alcoholic.
Alcoholics Anonymous has what I need, in the exact doses I need it in.
In the town I live in now...there are rehabs and "outside programs" all
over the place, and none of the people who attend these classes are
staying sober. In and out, in and out. And some don't come back.
It's very sad to me. I just want to bring them all over to my house
and read to them from the Big Book. At the meeting at my house...we
just read and discuss. No fringes. We don't keep records. There is
no bullshit in between. It's all about the Big Book and staying sober.
Well OK...we do have lunch and celebrate birthdays at the end of the
month...lol. But it's like old AA. I like that.
(Soberly submitted by Marilyn in Murrieta, CA)
**
| |
| elzoid 2006-02-16, 11:10 am |
| Hi, Walt, Marilyn, et al,
I am 57 years old and went to detox last March. That's after drinking
for 37 years. I detoxed medically on the advice of a psychologist
friend. Had I not had a medically supervised withdrawal I may well have
died. Even under the influence of 250mg of Librium my blood pressure
clocked in at around 190/150 (on the Richter scale).
So, are you asking me to have a stroke or cardiac arrest so that I get
whatever point you are making?
Mike
Walt R. wrote:
> Wednesday, February 15th 2006
>
> For the past couple of weeks, I have had a women's closed Big Book
> study at my house. We started reading the "forewards" first. Our
> discussions have been phenomenal. I really believe that if AA had
> stayed the way it was when Bill W. and Dr. Bob started it in the
> beginning...we'd all be a lot better off. I worry sometimes, about new
> people coming in, that aren't granted the opportunity to actually hit
> their bottom. These days, most people run to the nearest rehab or
> hospital for some medication that knocks them out for two or three
> days, and they never really get to experience a true detoxification
> from alcohol. I think that if more alkies skipped the hospital
> programs, and came directly to AA, and actually listened to what is
> being read and talked about...if they had that chance to shake and bake
> until they thought they would die...there would be longer and more
> successful periods of sobriety. I know for me, that it is my last
> drunk and sobering up that keeps me coming back year after year. If I
> had been able to sleep it off in a hospital bed with people taking care
> of me round the clock, that last drunk might not have seemed so bad
> after all, and I might be drunk again today. I was at death's door
> when I came in and I wanted what you all had to offer. AA for me, was
> the last house on the block. I thank The Great Whatever every day, for
> bringing me to you instead of a hospital. I'm an alcoholic.
> Alcoholics Anonymous has what I need, in the exact doses I need it in.
> In the town I live in now...there are rehabs and "outside programs" all
> over the place, and none of the people who attend these classes are
> staying sober. In and out, in and out. And some don't come back.
> It's very sad to me. I just want to bring them all over to my house
> and read to them from the Big Book. At the meeting at my house...we
> just read and discuss. No fringes. We don't keep records. There is
> no bullshit in between. It's all about the Big Book and staying sober.
> Well OK...we do have lunch and celebrate birthdays at the end of the
> month...lol. But it's like old AA. I like that.
>
> (Soberly submitted by Marilyn in Murrieta, CA)
> **
| |
|
| elzoid wrote:
> Hi, Walt, Marilyn, et al,
>
> I am 57 years old and went to detox last March. That's after drinking
> for 37 years. I detoxed medically on the advice of a psychologist
> friend. Had I not had a medically supervised withdrawal I may well have
> died. Even under the influence of 250mg of Librium my blood pressure
> clocked in at around 190/150 (on the Richter scale).
>
> So, are you asking me to have a stroke or cardiac arrest so that I get
> whatever point you are making?
>
> Mike
Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary and good luck with improved
reading comprehension, resentments and control issues. After 37 years
of drinking it often takes a little more than a year to chill. Some of
us never make it. Top posting, however, tends to be a permanent
disability and there are some who *will,* if not ask, at least hope for
you to have a stroke or cardiac arrest. ;)
| |
|
| This is the kind of loving support that I truly truly miss... thanks for
reminding me that I do not have what you've got.
TP
BP
"F.H." <connectu2z@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:iaJIf.76747$_D1.6577@trnddc03...
> elzoid wrote:
>
> Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary and good luck with improved
> reading comprehension, resentments and control issues. After 37 years
> of drinking it often takes a little more than a year to chill. Some of
> us never make it. Top posting, however, tends to be a permanent
> disability and there are some who *will,* if not ask, at least hope for
> you to have a stroke or cardiac arrest. ;)
| |
|
| BP wrote:
> This is the kind of loving support that I truly truly miss... thanks for
> reminding me that I do not have what you've got.
You'll tire of victims anonymous and come back begging.
| |
|
|
"F.H." <connectu2z@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jqMIf.14879$3V4.1943@trnddc06...
> BP wrote:
>
> You'll tire of victims anonymous and come back begging.
Not likely
But thanks for the invitation 
| |
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|
"Tommy" <tommyleprechaun@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:EcOIf.30718$Fy4.9929@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "BP" <efU@efme.net> wrote in message
>
> That is more than obvious to a discerning reader.
>
> Take what you haven't got and run with it to your sponsor, he'll dedicate
> his next xouple of cuss words to you
>
> Cheers
> Ohh you are a top posting prat
> Tommy
Prat? Ah Tommiguns, that's rather harsh isn't it? Rather. I simply TP'd to
gain a little luv I got it.
Thank golly for the little crowfoot thingies that help us sort it all out.
with[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
| |
| elzoid 2006-02-16, 11:10 am |
| Gee, it must be fun to work out your hostility in a non-threatening
environment. Good luck with that.
| |
|
|
"elzoid" <melzey@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1140104912.369573.117020@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Gee, it must be fun to work out your hostility in a non-threatening
> environment. Good luck with that.
>
Thanks for the good wishes, Mike. (And mostly, congratualations on your new
found freedom from alcohol. i honestly wish you the best.)
I was just like 'old home week' when I read F's reply to you. Here was a
person (you) aghast at what seemed to be someone's (Marilyn)preference that
"you" come into the program cold-turkey (or maybe nursed thru with a drink
now and then (maybe a saltbath, some lsd) when it got dangerous... the 'old
way') and another person who has been around awhile accusing you of poor
reading comprehension, resentments and control issues.
Frank then goes on to say that you obviously aren't thinking right (you need
to chill) because you've haven't even been sober for a year (as in shut your
mouth and open your ears, you are not saying things in a way that are
acceptable yet) and that you may never completely have a mind of your own
that functions (so you better be quiet or look the wetbrained fool) and then
the 'humor' of correcting your 'sharing' by telling you some people will
want you dead if you don't conform to sharing in a particular format.
It was all just toooooo rich.
You might have gathered that I'm not usually an advocate of 12 step
programs. i was in and out of the rooms for over 22 years before I finally
sobered up (on an out stroke). You, on the other hand are sober!!! Your mind
is clearing more every day. Sure you will have ups and downs but all in all
it gets a little better each day, doesn't it... the bad times come less
frequently and they are less severe? You are mending!!! If you keep your
nutrition and excercise up in eleven months you'll be as 'healed' as you
will ever be.
Maybe when you've been around for a few years you can choose to not act like
you are somehow superior to people with less 'sober time' than you. You
won't have to condescend, belittle and judge. Maybe you can nurture your
fellows with compassion and allow them to be their true and beautiful selves
while living a life that they may aspire to. I hope so. But you've already
started down the slippery slope with "Good luck with that." As if you KNOW
that i am resentful (hostile) and it will surely cause me to drink and if I
know whats good for me (because you just told me I better do another
fourth step.
Anyway Elzoid, best of luck to you. My thoughts and well wishes are with you
as you work eleven steps, or even 12 if you leave this part out, "we tried
to carry this message to alcoholics, and".
BP
| |
|
| Ooops, somehow (doo doo doo doo dood ood ood oo) this showed up as a reply
to 'who's god?'
"elzoid" <melzey@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1140104912.369573.117020@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Gee, it must be fun to work out your hostility in a non-threatening
> environment. Good luck with that.
>
Thanks for the good wishes, Mike. (And mostly, congratualations on your new
found freedom from alcohol. i honestly wish you the best.)
I was just like 'old home week' when I read F's reply to you. Here was a
person (you) aghast at what seemed to be someone's (Marilyn)preference that
"you" come into the program cold-turkey (or maybe nursed thru with a drink
now and then (maybe a saltbath, some lsd) when it got dangerous... the 'old
way') and another person who has been around awhile accusing you of poor
reading comprehension, resentments and control issues.
Frank then goes on to say that you obviously aren't thinking right (you need
to chill) because you've haven't even been sober for a year (as in shut your
mouth and open your ears, you are not saying things in a way that are
acceptable yet) and that you may never completely have a mind of your own
that functions (so you better be quiet or look the wetbrained fool) and then
the 'humor' of correcting your 'sharing' by telling you some people will
want you dead if you don't conform to sharing in a particular format.
It was all just toooooo rich.
You might have gathered that I'm not usually an advocate of 12 step
programs. i was in and out of the rooms for over 22 years before I finally
sobered up (on an out stroke). You, on the other hand are sober!!! Your mind
is clearing more every day. Sure you will have ups and downs but all in all
it gets a little better each day, doesn't it... the bad times come less
frequently and they are less severe? You are mending!!! If you keep your
nutrition and excercise up in eleven months you'll be as 'healed' as you
will ever be.
Maybe when you've been around for a few years you can choose to not act like
you are somehow superior to people with less 'sober time' than you. You
won't have to condescend, belittle and judge. Maybe you can nurture your
fellows with compassion and allow them to be their true and beautiful selves
while living a life that they may aspire to. I hope so. But you've already
started down the slippery slope with "Good luck with that." As if you KNOW
that i am resentful (hostile) and it will surely cause me to drink and if I
know whats good for me (because you just told me I better do another
fourth step.
Anyway Elzoid, best of luck to you. My thoughts and well wishes are with you
as you work eleven steps, or even 12 if you leave this part out, "we tried
to carry this message to alcoholics, and".
BP
| |
|
| BP wrote:
> "elzoid" <melzey@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Thanks for the good wishes, Mike. (And mostly, congratualations on your new
> found freedom from alcohol. i honestly wish you the best.)
>
> I was just like 'old home week' when I read F's reply to you. Here was a
> person (you) aghast at what seemed to be someone's (Marilyn)preference that
> "you" come into the program cold-turkey (or maybe nursed thru with a drink
> now and then (maybe a saltbath, some lsd) when it got dangerous... the 'old
> way') and another person who has been around awhile accusing you of poor
> reading comprehension, resentments and control issues.
You clearly have the same problem with reading comprehension. Or is it
just that hair trigger ego that drives a need to grandstand. Perhaps the
mob appeal of victimization. Blood in the water, BP to the rescue with
a little self aggrandizement throw in for good measure.
Walt kindly offers up these on topic morning meds which I actually often
enjoy because I'm partial to ESH and the variety of approaches and
emphasis's that folks find useful.
Does Mike's observation ("So, are you asking me to have a stroke or
cardiac arrest so that I get whatever point you are making?") in *any*
way reflect the ESH that was offered by Marilyn in Murrieta?
The emphasis of her post was that folks these days tend to avoid what
the early AA'er's felt was paramount to recovery, "absolute humiliation"
and "utter defeat" and instead opted for "running to the nearest rehab."
One could add to that, that rehab is almost a badge of honor these days
even more so if court ordered. About as far as you can get from "utter
defeat."
> Frank then goes on to say that you obviously aren't thinking right (you need
> to chill) because you've haven't even been sober for a year (as in shut your
> mouth and open your ears, you are not saying things in a way that are
> acceptable yet) and that you may never completely have a mind of your own
> that functions (so you better be quiet or look the wetbrained fool) and then
> the 'humor' of correcting your 'sharing' by telling you some people will
> want you dead if you don't conform to sharing in a particular format.
LOL, you *really* do have a reading comprehension problem. What I
actually said was first "Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary"
second: good luck with improved reading comprehension, resentments and
control issues, (all three are right there in his sarcastic question).
An cautionary observation that in some cases hospitalization is required
would have passed unnoticed, third (with a wink at the end) chiding him
about top posting. LOL, And you got all that other stuff.
> You might have gathered that I'm not usually an advocate of 12 step
> programs. i was in and out of the rooms for over 22 years before I finally
> sobered up (on an out stroke).
Odd that you say "thanks for reminding me that I do not need what you've
got," when apparently you *do* need *something* we've got because you
can't seem to stay away very long.
Must be tough, holding up a massive ego on such spindly legs.
| |
|
| On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:06:32 GMT, "F.H." <connectu2z@verizon.net>
wrote:
>
>Must be tough, holding up a massive ego on such spindly legs.
Having to be right is a tough deal. Angst, anxiety, salivation, fault
finding, piousness, self aggrandizement, these aren't easy traits to
meld together and then have to use a phony psuednym.....(:<
| |
|
| GaryE wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:06:32 GMT, "F.H." wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Having to be right is a tough deal. Angst, anxiety, salivation, fault
> finding, piousness, self aggrandizement, these aren't easy traits to
> meld together and then have to use a phony psuednym.....(:<
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?...offended6ad.gif"
| |
| GaryE 2006-02-23, 11:08 am |
| On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:31:54 GMT, "F.H." <connectu2z@verizon.net>
wrote:
>GaryE wrote:
>
>
>
>http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?...offended6ad.gif"
Funny.
But tell me, who is he that can offend the spirit?
Shall the nightingale offend the stillness of the night, or the
firefly the stars?
And shall your flame or your smoke burden the wind?
Think you the spirit is a still pool which you can trouble with a
staff?
Oftentimes in denying yourself pleasure you do but store the desire in
the recesses of your being.
Who knows but that which seems omitted today, waits for tomorrow?
Even your body knows its heritage and its rightful need and will not
be deceived.
And your body is the harp of your soul,
And it is yours to bring forth sweet music from it or confused sounds.
| |
| GaryE 2006-02-23, 11:08 am |
| On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:17:30 GMT, "BP" <efU@efme.net> wrote:
>Frank then goes on to say that you obviously aren't thinking right (you need
>to chill) because you've haven't even been sober for a year (as in shut your
>mouth and open your ears, you are not saying things in a way that are
>acceptable yet) and that you may never completely have a mind of your own
>that functions (so you better be quiet or look the wetbrained fool) and then
>the 'humor' of correcting your 'sharing' by telling you some people will
>want you dead if you don't conform to sharing in a particular format.
>It was all just toooooo rich.
You know, what you are demonstrating is a trait that is familiar here.
First you take someone's words, then you add your own 'interpretation'
and then you launch into the interpretation as if you were still
quoting words. In debate class, you would get points deducted for
that tactic. Naughty, naughty, mustn't do, that's another foul on
you. Heh.
>
>You might have gathered that I'm not usually an advocate of 12 step
>programs. i was in and out of the rooms for over 22 years
That seems like an oxymoron.
> before I finally
>sobered up (on an out stroke). You, on the other hand are sober!!! Your mind
>is clearing more every day. Sure you will have ups and downs but all in all
>it gets a little better each day, doesn't it... the bad times come less
>frequently and they are less severe? You are mending!!! If you keep your
>nutrition and excercise up in eleven months you'll be as 'healed' as you
>will ever be.
My dad drank for over 50 years. He never went to AA but he had
stomach surgery at age 72 or thereabouts and the doctor told him that
if he drank again, he would kill himself. He never did. He lived
another ten years. Of course, some would claim he couldn't therefore
be a *real* alcoholic, so let's say he was a good simile. In any
case, I am certain that people can quit when they get ready. Period.
My dad drank enough to float the Kate Adams from Natchez to New
Orleans. AA is for a lot of different kinds of drinkers. It seems to
be focused on those who *think* they cannot quit on their own and so
people can find help with this faulty thinking. . The God deal
causes a lot of trepidation for some. But many have found ways to
escape that and still get help. Much to the chagrin of those *real*
alcoholics, mind you.
>Maybe when you've been around for a few years you can choose to not act like
>you are somehow superior to people with less 'sober time' than you. You
>won't have to condescend, belittle and judge.
I thought that attitude was pretty much SOP in AA Thumpdom, as
distinct from AA as a whole. Well, we have a couple of thumps here,
so you can see for yourself. Maybe they just didn't *choose* to put
their thoughts on a 'higher plane' and they like thinking they are
lord and master of drunkendom and associated topics. Go figure.
> Maybe you can nurture your
>fellows with compassion and allow them to be their true and beautiful selves
>while living a life that they may aspire to.
That's a beautiful sentiment. But this is Earth, I fear.
I >
>Anyway Elzoid, best of luck to you. My thoughts and well wishes are with you
>as you work eleven steps, or even 12 if you leave this part out, "we tried
>to carry this message to alcoholics, and".
>
Amen BP, Amen to that.
Best,
GaryE
| |
|
|
"GaryE" <garyexxxxxxx@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:ne4dv1lmcld29j1da29topa2q81unsgobo@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:17:30 GMT, "BP" <efU@efme.net> wrote:
>
need[vbcol=seagreen]
your[vbcol=seagreen]
then[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> You know, what you are demonstrating is a trait that is familiar here.
> First you take someone's words, then you add your own 'interpretation'
> and then you launch into the interpretation as if you were still
> quoting words. In debate class, you would get points deducted for
> that tactic. Naughty, naughty, mustn't do, that's another foul on
> you. Heh.
FOUL!!! Paraphrased, force fed a little. One more and you're going to the
bench!!!
>
> That seems like an oxymoron.
I'm a walking oxymoron, Gary Imagine, an ordained minister who preaches a
form of existential atheism.. hmm
>
>
mind[vbcol=seagreen]
all[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> My dad drank for over 50 years. He never went to AA but he had
> stomach surgery at age 72 or thereabouts and the doctor told him that
> if he drank again, he would kill himself. He never did. He lived
> another ten years. Of course, some would claim he couldn't therefore
> be a *real* alcoholic, so let's say he was a good simile. In any
> case, I am certain that people can quit when they get ready. Period.
> My dad drank enough to float the Kate Adams from Natchez to New
> Orleans. AA is for a lot of different kinds of drinkers. It seems to
> be focused on those who *think* they cannot quit on their own and so
> people can find help with this faulty thinking. . The God deal
> causes a lot of trepidation for some. But many have found ways to
> escape that and still get help. Much to the chagrin of those *real*
> alcoholics, mind you.
A few years back I explained my abstinence committment affect (immediate
'pink cloud', total loss of desire to drink, etc.) and a fellow on this ng
decided to claim it for God, said i had a spiritual awakening. That was his
mental framework, he couldn't see beyond it. Funny, huh? God practices AVRT
too? Cool.
>
>
like[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I thought that attitude was pretty much SOP in AA Thumpdom, as
> distinct from AA as a whole. Well, we have a couple of thumps here,
> so you can see for yourself. Maybe they just didn't *choose* to put
> their thoughts on a 'higher plane' and they like thinking they are
> lord and master of drunkendom and associated topics. Go figure.
Go figger
>
>
selves[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That's a beautiful sentiment. But this is Earth, I fear.
One person at a time, it's a possible choice.
>
> I >
you[vbcol=seagreen]
tried[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Amen BP, Amen to that.
Hallelujah
>
> Best,
> GaryE
B2U2
BP
| |
| Robert McGregor 2006-02-23, 11:08 am |
|
"GaryE" <garyexxxxxxx@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:ne4dv1lmcld29j1da29topa2q81unsgobo@4ax.com...
>
> You know, what you are demonstrating is a trait that is familiar
> here.
> First you take someone's words, then you add your own
> 'interpretation'
> and then you launch into the interpretation as if you were still
> quoting words.
>
> The God deal
> causes a lot of trepidation for some. But many have found ways to
> escape that and still get help. Much to the chagrin of those
> *real*
> alcoholics, mind you.
>
Fine example, bro! In the same post too Arguably, to best nurture
the exclusive "us and them" syndrome, *that's* the way it must be!
Brer Bob
| |
| Tommy 2006-02-23, 11:09 am |
| Walt R. wrote:
> Wednesday, February 15th 2006
>
> For the past couple of weeks, I have had a women's closed Big Book
> study at my house. We started reading the "forewards" first.
Fooking A mate, how many you screwed yet Walt.
Gimme a call when you get to tired huh
Cheers
Not getting any Tommy
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