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Home > Archive > Recovery aa > August 2005 > Jack Trimpey
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| I was wondering what to post and really couldnt think about a lot. I
know Grace misses it when I dont post, and Im pretty sure Ray does too.
I pulled the following off my website:
http://Christianrecovery.blogspot.com
Mr. Trimpey of Rational Recovery saw fit too e-mail regarding my
thoughts that post traumatic stress disorder causing alcoholism. He
thinks Im wrong.
******************************************************************
>From Jack Trimpey
Ted,Your belief that addiction is caused by PTSD is simply wrong, and a
perfect example of the Addictive Voice. Anyone can permanently quit
drinking regardless of any past traumas. The use of alcohol and other
drugs is not to cope with miseries, as you suggest, but for the
unspeakable pleasure theyproduce. PTSD is no excuse for drunkenness.
Jack Trimpey
**********************************************************************************
My repsonse:
Dear Jack:
I wasnt making excuses just explaining causes. And Yes they can stop
drinking regardless of the traumas, but to really find peace of mind
they have to resolve the hatred caused by the traumas.
This is the reason I could not recommend Rational Recovery to stop
drinking or drugs. They dont really know what they are talking about.
BTW, Jack I am available to debate the causes and solution of
alcohol/drug addiction at any time and on any forum.
****************************************************************
Jacks response is an example of a lesser truth obscuring a greater
truth. Yes, Alcoholics and Drug Addicts (in the beginning) do drink for
pleasure. But in the end as most of us will attest too it is not a
pleasureable life.
When I started drinking and using drugs I did it for the pleasure,sure.
But what I never stopped to ask myself is why I wasnt
happy,serene,content,and peaceful to begin with. It is the truamas in
our life that seperates us from the inner Light which is the source of
love and happiness. And then we compensate with pleasure.That is the
post traumatic stress syndrome.
If you were happy and content in the first place, then why would you
have started drinking like a fish in the second place?
| |
| Ron G 2005-08-30, 11:55 am |
|
"tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125193823.313014.73950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> When I started drinking and using drugs I did it for the pleasure,sure.
> But what I never stopped to ask myself is why I wasnt
> happy,serene,content,and peaceful to begin with. It is the truamas in
> our life that seperates us from the inner Light which is the source of
> love and happiness. And then we compensate with pleasure.That is the
> post traumatic stress syndrome.
>
Are you saying that pleasure is wrong? Perhaps sin in the eyes of your god?
Not to be indulged in?
RonG
| |
| Bill S. 2005-08-30, 11:55 am |
| Ted,
I read your post about how ptsd can be a contributive in people lapsing into
alcoholism (that would be part of the psychological (along with the
sociological, biological and, some say, spiritual) aspect of the disease
model), I agreed with your point. Then I read this on your website:
There is a very good chance if you are a woman who used drugs or alcohol,
you also had an abortion. After all, there have been 20 million or so in
this country.
I know arguing with you is a waste of time. You are convinced everything you
believe is God's own Truth but there is so much wrong with this it is hard
to know where to start.
Belief is a powerful thing. Religion is a powerful thing. So powerful that
it can reduce or eliminate a person's ability see anything else. I think
it's called confirmation bias.
Is there anything about the right-wing Christian agenda that you disagree
with?
"tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125193823.313014.73950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I was wondering what to post and really couldnt think about a lot. I
> know Grace misses it when I dont post, and Im pretty sure Ray does too.
> I pulled the following off my website:
> http://Christianrecovery.blogspot.com
>
>
> Mr. Trimpey of Rational Recovery saw fit too e-mail regarding my
> thoughts that post traumatic stress disorder causing alcoholism. He
> thinks Im wrong.
>
> ******************************************************************
>
>
>
> Ted,Your belief that addiction is caused by PTSD is simply wrong, and a
> perfect example of the Addictive Voice. Anyone can permanently quit
> drinking regardless of any past traumas. The use of alcohol and other
> drugs is not to cope with miseries, as you suggest, but for the
> unspeakable pleasure theyproduce. PTSD is no excuse for drunkenness.
>
>
> Jack Trimpey
> **********************************************************************************
> My repsonse:
>
> Dear Jack:
>
> I wasnt making excuses just explaining causes. And Yes they can stop
> drinking regardless of the traumas, but to really find peace of mind
> they have to resolve the hatred caused by the traumas.
>
> This is the reason I could not recommend Rational Recovery to stop
> drinking or drugs. They dont really know what they are talking about.
>
> BTW, Jack I am available to debate the causes and solution of
> alcohol/drug addiction at any time and on any forum.
>
> ****************************************************************
>
>
> Jacks response is an example of a lesser truth obscuring a greater
> truth. Yes, Alcoholics and Drug Addicts (in the beginning) do drink for
> pleasure. But in the end as most of us will attest too it is not a
> pleasureable life.
>
> When I started drinking and using drugs I did it for the pleasure,sure.
> But what I never stopped to ask myself is why I wasnt
> happy,serene,content,and peaceful to begin with. It is the truamas in
> our life that seperates us from the inner Light which is the source of
> love and happiness. And then we compensate with pleasure.That is the
> post traumatic stress syndrome.
>
> If you were happy and content in the first place, then why would you
> have started drinking like a fish in the second place?
>
| |
|
| Strange question really, Bill. Is there anything in The right-wing
Christian agenda that I disagree with? Well, you seem to be talking
politics so you would have to list what the right wing Christian agenda
is before I could say which items I disagree with as I dont know
exactly what it is. But I am in general agreement with them on most
social issues.
There are some areas of disagreement I have with with what you would
call "Right Wing Christians". Most notably, I dont believe that Jesus
is Christ is God. A careful reading of Scripture doesnt support that
idea. They have mostly been taught that (wrongly) and they would
consider me a "Heretic". And I dont think Im going to be raptured up
into heaven, and my understanding of what it means to be "born again"
is different than them. In fact, I would be so bold as to say most
"Born Again" Christians are not Born Again. The deception in this world
is very great and I think most of them are "fooled again". As a
minister friend of mine likes to say, A born again turkey is still a
turkey.
Im glad you agreed with PTSD being a caustive factor in many cases of
alcoholism. It is.
As far as the abortion post, I dont see why you have a problem with
that. Alcoholic/drug addict men/women are very promiscuous. In general,
they were a bunch of whores and whoremongers (myself included) when
drinking and using drugs. And I think you will find that many, many
women in Alcoholics Anonymous had abortions. So whats the problem?.
Is it possible that you dont consider something like abortion wrong? In
most cases, it is. In most cases it is sin. So
Why would you have a problem with that post.?
As far as confirmation bias, I dont think so. If you think Im wrong
about something just say so, and Ill consider it. Maybe even thank you
if your right.
But I am not wrong about most abortions being sin, and Im not wrong
about homosexuality being a sin.If you think I am then its you who is
wrong and needs to re-think your position.
| |
| Sharx35 2005-08-30, 11:55 am |
|
"tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125204824.365153.125680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Strange question really, Bill. Is there anything in The right-wing
> Christian agenda that I disagree with? Well, you seem to be talking
> politics so you would have to list what the right wing Christian agenda
> is before I could say which items I disagree with as I dont know
> exactly what it is. But I am in general agreement with them on most
> social issues.
>
> There are some areas of disagreement I have with with what you would
> call "Right Wing Christians". Most notably, I dont believe that Jesus
> is Christ is God. A careful reading of Scripture doesnt support that
> idea. They have mostly been taught that (wrongly) and they would
> consider me a "Heretic". And I dont think Im going to be raptured up
> into heaven, and my understanding of what it means to be "born again"
> is different than them. In fact, I would be so bold as to say most
> "Born Again" Christians are not Born Again. The deception in this world
> is very great and I think most of them are "fooled again". As a
> minister friend of mine likes to say, A born again turkey is still a
> turkey.
>
> Im glad you agreed with PTSD being a caustive factor in many cases of
> alcoholism. It is.
>
> As far as the abortion post, I dont see why you have a problem with
> that. Alcoholic/drug addict men/women are very promiscuous. In general,
> they were a bunch of whores and whoremongers (myself included) when
> drinking and using drugs. And I think you will find that many, many
> women in Alcoholics Anonymous had abortions. So whats the problem?.
>
> Is it possible that you dont consider something like abortion wrong? In
> most cases, it is. In most cases it is sin. So
> Why would you have a problem with that post.?
>
> As far as confirmation bias, I dont think so. If you think Im wrong
> about something just say so, and Ill consider it. Maybe even thank you
> if your right.
>
> But I am not wrong about most abortions being sin, and Im not wrong
> about homosexuality being a sin.If you think I am then its you who is
> wrong and needs to re-think your position.
>
I emphasize that BEING a homosexual is no sin, but ACTING OUT homosexuality
surely is. Fudgepacking is NOT normal.
| |
|
|
Sharx35 wrote:
> "tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1125204824.365153.125680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I emphasize that BEING a homosexual is no sin, but ACTING OUT homosexuality
> surely is. Fudgepacking is NOT normal.
Well,stopping acting out on the homosexuality would be the first step I
would think. But eventually even the homosexual desires and
inclinations would change.
A repentant homosexuals wouldnt even have the desires anymore in my
opinon.
Sort of like the lust for alcohol. It diminishes over time and
eventually goes away.
Anyway, your right acting out on homosexuality is a sin. But you cant
tell it by reading the new improved fourth edition of the Big Book.
| |
| Sharx35 2005-08-30, 11:55 am |
|
"tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125212521.226301.147590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sharx35 wrote:
>
> Well,stopping acting out on the homosexuality would be the first step I
> would think. But eventually even the homosexual desires and
> inclinations would change.
>
> A repentant homosexuals wouldnt even have the desires anymore in my
> opinon.
>
>
> Sort of like the lust for alcohol. It diminishes over time and
> eventually goes away.
>
> Anyway, your right acting out on homosexuality is a sin. But you cant
> tell it by reading the new improved fourth edition of the Big Book.
Let us not forget that the stories after page 164 are NOT part of the
Program.
>
| |
| Robert McGregor 2005-08-30, 11:55 am |
| Xref: newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com alt.recovery.aa:376795
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NtdQe.244684$on1.163536@clgrps13...
>
> "tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1125212521.226301.147590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Let us not forget that the stories after page 164 are NOT part of
> the Program.
>
Depends which program you are referring to. A lot of Bill and Hank's
stories in the pages before page 164 are opinion about, as distinct
from part of, the 12 step program on which AA founders were agreed.
Bob
Bob
| |
|
| tedw wrote:
> A repentant homosexuals wouldnt even have the desires anymore in my
> opinon.
> Sort of like the lust for alcohol. It diminishes over time and
> eventually goes away.
Thanks for sharing your ESH.
| |
| Bill S. 2005-08-30, 11:55 am |
| I started writing a long post about what I consider the right-wing
Christian, not xian, agenda and where I did and not disagree with it. It was
getting even more long winded then usual so I'll just say that I support any
agenda that elevates the dignity and beauty of God's creation including what
has been made in His Image.
Is abortion a sin? I'm sure I don't know. When does life begin? I'm sure I
don't know that either. What I think is that it is such a personal matter,
filled with very important and complicated questions of faith, life and
dreary considerations like economics that it is best left up to the woman.
At the same time I think everything should be done, short of denying that
choice, to reduce to as close to zero as possible the number of abortions
women choose to have. Even if it cost me more in taxes. It's your choice.
Please choose life and I'll help.
Addiction clouds judgment and limits choices. It wouldn't surprise me if
actually true that addicted women have more abortions then non-addicts. It's
likely that addicted men father more children then they are willing to do
more for then supply genetic material. Slapping mean labels on them like
whores and whoremongers on them, especially when trying to recover,
accomplishes no good.
"tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125204824.365153.125680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Strange question really, Bill. Is there anything in The right-wing
> Christian agenda that I disagree with? Well, you seem to be talking
> politics so you would have to list what the right wing Christian agenda
> is before I could say which items I disagree with as I dont know
> exactly what it is. But I am in general agreement with them on most
> social issues.
>
> There are some areas of disagreement I have with with what you would
> call "Right Wing Christians". Most notably, I dont believe that Jesus
> is Christ is God. A careful reading of Scripture doesnt support that
> idea. They have mostly been taught that (wrongly) and they would
> consider me a "Heretic". And I dont think Im going to be raptured up
> into heaven, and my understanding of what it means to be "born again"
> is different than them. In fact, I would be so bold as to say most
> "Born Again" Christians are not Born Again. The deception in this world
> is very great and I think most of them are "fooled again". As a
> minister friend of mine likes to say, A born again turkey is still a
> turkey.
>
> Im glad you agreed with PTSD being a caustive factor in many cases of
> alcoholism. It is.
>
> As far as the abortion post, I dont see why you have a problem with
> that. Alcoholic/drug addict men/women are very promiscuous. In general,
> they were a bunch of whores and whoremongers (myself included) when
> drinking and using drugs. And I think you will find that many, many
> women in Alcoholics Anonymous had abortions. So whats the problem?.
>
> Is it possible that you dont consider something like abortion wrong? In
> most cases, it is. In most cases it is sin. So
> Why would you have a problem with that post.?
>
> As far as confirmation bias, I dont think so. If you think Im wrong
> about something just say so, and Ill consider it. Maybe even thank you
> if your right.
>
> But I am not wrong about most abortions being sin, and Im not wrong
> about homosexuality being a sin.If you think I am then its you who is
> wrong and needs to re-think your position.
>
| |
|
|
Bill S. wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> I started writing a long post about what I consider the right-wing
> Christian, not xian, agenda and where I did and not disagree with it. It was
> getting even more long winded then usual so I'll just say that I support any
> agenda that elevates the dignity and beauty of God's creation including what
> has been made in His Image.
>
> Is abortion a sin? I'm sure I don't know. When does life begin? I'm sure I
> don't know that either. What I think is that it is such a personal matter,
> filled with very important and complicated questions of faith, life and
> dreary considerations like economics that it is best left up to the woman.
> At the same time I think everything should be done, short of denying that
> choice, to reduce to as close to zero as possible the number of abortions
> women choose to have. Even if it cost me more in taxes. It's your choice.
> Please choose life and I'll help.
>
> Addiction clouds judgment and limits choices. It wouldn't surprise me if
> actually true that addicted women have more abortions then non-addicts. It's
> likely that addicted men father more children then they are willing to do
> more for then supply genetic material. Slapping mean labels on them like
> whores and whoremongers on them, especially when trying to recover,
> accomplishes no good.
>
>
> "tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1125204824.365153.125680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill, your more reasonable that most of the denizens that populate
Alt.recovery.aa. But you might give some thought as to whether or not
abortion is a sin. Many people think it is, including 1 billion
Catholics.
You dont know when life begins? Doesnt it begin at conception? I mean
after all if these fetuses were not alive then why would it be
necessary to terminate their existence? When life begins is a
scientific fact that you can determine.
I havent been called a label slapper before but let me respond. Calling
a spade a spade is healthy in my opinion.
Which of the following is better when examing ones life in an
inventory:
1) Calling yourself a sex care provider or
2) Admitting your a whore.
Facing up to the truth is healthy Bill. Lets not tiptoe around and be
afraid to call things what they are.
| |
|
| F.H. must have gotten a little offended. Not to worry, just let go of
the hostility youll be allright.
| |
|
| On 28 Aug 2005 10:45:36 -0700, "tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote:
>F.H. must have gotten a little offended. Not to worry, just let go of
>the hostility youll be allright.
Dr. ted fixes F.H......hah ha!
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| Tom wrote:
> On 28 Aug 2005 10:45:36 -0700, "tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dr. ted fixes F.H......hah ha!
The price was right, it was painless and quick. Am I lucky or what?
| |
| nipntuk 2005-08-30, 11:55 am |
| On 28 Aug 2005 10:45:36 -0700, "tedw" <tedw2@earthlink.net> wrote:
>F.H. must have gotten a little offended. Not to worry, just let go of
>the hostility youll be allright.
But passive aggression is a-okay...
------------------------------
Visit http://www.nacer.org for the real 'Survivor Yucatan'
| |
|
| On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 18:20:13 GMT, "F.H." <connectu2@verizon.net>
wrote:
>Tom wrote:
>
>The price was right, it was painless and quick. Am I lucky or what?
Didn't even have to repent. Sure you ain't one of tedw's alterboys?
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