Recovery aa - October 18, 1998 (long)

Author

October 18, 1998 (long)

GaryE

2005-01-27, 6:09 am

This is a very long post. I wrote it in October 1998 as I was trying
to re-group my mind and analyze where I had been and where I was now.
I was 8 years sober at this time and apparently had been posting on
this newsgroup on the order of 5 years. This really is, one hell of a
place. If you like a long read, be my guest:
==================================================================

When I first went to AA, I latched onto the phrase 'rigorous honesty'
as one which I would devote myself to. I was not a young man (neither
old, as such) at the time, but I was old enough to want to try to
separate 'wheat from chaff' in terms of my own self, and the way I
viewed the world around me. I was determined to do this well, to not
be 'half measured' about it. To follow it no matter where it might
lead me.

I didn't know, at the time, where my mind set was going to lead me.
In fact, I was ( I thought) a believer in God. It was part of my
'ritual' that I (ironically it turns out) 'made this deal' with God,
feeling that this supernatural power would lead me and I would just
let go and follow. Now that's easy to say but there were no road
signs. "Let go" of what? Follow what?

What I did was to 'trust my intuition'. If I got an urge to do
something, I would. If something happened 'in front of me' I would
look at it, see where it lead, if indeed it did lead somewhere. I
suppose that I became 'willing' as they say, and 'open' This, in its
self was a change. As an educated person, I considered myself 'open'
to ideas. I had been taught and trained to be 'open.' I thought and
believed in my mind that ignorance came from close mindedness. And
that ignorance was a place I was coming from, not going to. And I was
open to the extent that I would listen to someone else, but I hardly
learned much from that process. I already had my own ideas and it
seems that I had to guard them. Funny thing to do with ideas, isn't
it?

There have been a number of years which have transpired since I
dedicated myself to this 'mission.' My life is not littered with
'dedicated missions' so the fact that I stood with it is interesting
to me. About the only real dedicated mission I had before was to come
out of the military and finish the college that I had started in the
military. I did and then some. I also dedicated myself to preserving
my marriage, early on. I had come from a broken home, as had my
father, and was determined not to carry on the tradition. The
commitment to an education was, and still is, a very big plus in my
life. The commitment to a marriage turned out, in glorious hindsight,
to be unwise. It prolonged an inevitable parting of ways due to very
serious incompatibilities which were actually there from the
beginning.

I am not at the road's end. But I am at a point where I can look at
what's happened to me. And the differences between now and then.

First, but not foremost, after some five years, I became an agnostic.
First, I had to go through the process of unbecoming a Christian
(which, in itself, was fearful and somewhat agonizing) I used the AA
"God of my own understanding" to do that. I could create a better
God, I thought, than the one which I was told to accept. And I did.
And it worked very well. But even then, I found myself in a
organization that said "God of your own understanding" but kept
repeating Christian phases. Soon the arbitrary distinction that I
made between the two seemed a bit self deceptive. I was trying to kid
me. The same person whom I pledged to be honest with.

Early on it seemed to be that I should learn more about the things
that I didn't know much about. How could I really get a good view by
shutting out some major areas of life. For instance, science. So I
began to read and I read books on the various disciplines of science.
When one would appeal to me, I would read more. I find that I have
read more books over the past several years than I probably had in my
life previous. I read books on evolution, on relativity, on particle
physics, on molecular biology, on neuro biology, neuro chemistry, as
well as the quasi science of psychology, particularly the various
approaches to fathoming the human psyche. I literally have a wall
covered with books that I read. I also read extensively on religions,
primarily Christianity, though not only that. I did due diligence in
researching the actual historical record (as far as is known) about
Judaism, Christianity, and some of its offshoots. I discussed what I
read, particularly in some of the more difficult areas where I didn't
have the proper preparation in math and physics.

I found a place where I could let others challenge the ideas (although
I got a lot of personal challenges as well) that I thought I had
learned. Usenet. Mostly the a.r. and a.r.aa newsgroups, but also
others such as alt.atheism, alt.christianity, etc. The newsgroup
thing wasn't around when I first started this 'journey' but a little
more than five years ago, I found this alt.recovery.

What has seemed to happen to me is that I have gotten closer to what I
perceive as reality. The way things really are. Not only
scientifically but in dealing with people or trying to get an accurate
read on others. Not so much in a newsgroup environment (although it
qualifies as well) but in my life, particularly at work, but also at
home and elsewhere. A lot of my view of the world didn't pass muster
is one way I can phrase it. I was indeed 'wrapped up' in myself to
the extent that I was overly concerned with how I *looked* followed
next by how I lived materialistically. It was a bit unnerving to
discover how much I vested myself in how I might look to others.

I can recall that I used to smirk about my ex mother in law because
she would literally sweep dirt on the rug. She was one who was quick
to say, 'what will others think'. When I discovered that I was in
the same boat with her, paddling probably with more determination, I
came a reality that I feel like I needed. I haven't lost the notion
of 'caring how someone else sees me' but it is far less important to
me today. The chips fall where they may. "when I am wrong, promptly
admit it' How incredibly difficult that little ditty was. I would
admit to 'admittable errors', items of little consequence, but was
very forceful in not going to far down that road. I don't like the
term "character defect" because that is a morality term and is cold
and doesn't consider human nature, nor how one arrived at this so
called 'defect.' I knew I needed to let the chips fall where they may
and let things that needed to come out, come out without being edited
or a spin put on.

Reality, it turned out was a better fit for my temperament. With a
primarily analytical, rational, problem solving mind, I had tried to
overlay it with mysticism and it didn't work well. I tried it because
I was told to, lead to, pushed to, and peer pressured to accept what
the majority of my friends, fellows, and peers would accept. In
considering what I needed to do be rigorously honest and stay sober,
the fact that I would give up my own 'self', my own natural (seems
that way to me) tendencies was self defeating. With alcohol, it
became self destructive. I essentially denied myself, by and large.
I had been raised that way and I had developed the proper fears of not
being that way.

I also don't delude myself, at work, for example. I can more readily
and more accurately read the dynamics and politics, and fears and
anxieties of a work environment. And I actually can and have,
restrained myself (as best I could) from pointing this out to others.
(See mommy, see what Gary has learned). Some of you may not identify
with this accomplishment, but for me, I got control of my destiny much
better. The other way, I wound up handing a lot of it to someone
else. If you don't understand what I mean here, then perhaps your
experience and views are different from mine.

The down side, (if I can call it that) is that some of 'magic' is
gone. The savior, the rescue man, who will inevitably pull me from
the grasp of disaster being the first and foremost. Somehow I always
believed what was taught me in Roy Rogers and Gene Autry movies.
There was always a guy with a white hat who would rescue me. There
was always someone else who would make my pains go away. And
sometimes I surely need others, don't get me wrong. But the others I
constructed were supernatural. They took me off into the sunset.

There is no problem of 'good and evil'. Some of us are good and some
of us are evil and about all of us are both in varying degrees and
varying situations. How much better that resonates with my mind than
a cosmological struggle. Perhaps there is a cosmological struggle,
but I don't know it. And I have to resolved to try to base my life
more on what I know than what I don't. Faith is certainly good. But
in my life, it is highly overrated. If I am to shape and mold my
life, then it is I who must do it and sometimes it is difficult work.
Sometimes it a pleasure. How else could it be?

All the while this was going on, I was growing older. Certainly my
views were impacted by that process as much as any commitments that I
made to myself. I need less. I care more. How else *should* it be?

The newsgroup has helped me in that writing my thoughts and ideas and
experiences makes me more aware. People responding seriously without
rancor have been a large help. I don't count those who sort of make a
mockery out of serious discussion and who are prolific in their
posting. I think they are mostly a reflection of some of the problem
minds of society at large. And of the illusion that life is some kind
of joke. Ideas have consequences I was told. And I think they do.
At least for me. There are many of you I would thank, even though
some of you might be surprised at my 'gratitude'.

I am almost convinced now that reality and life are not necessarily
the same thing. If any of you have my traits, then you may discover,
as I did, that reality is not something we seem to care much about.
We'd prefer some illusion, some magic, some safe harbor in the mind.
And I still do, from time to time. But you know, it's really been a
hell of good trip for me so far and it's not a sparkling world, but it
has it pristine beauty. And if there is a God, then God doesn't mind
me this trip I think. If not, then I didn't mind it so I guess either
way, I come out ahead of where I was.

Best,
GaryE

Tim and Lisa

2005-01-27, 6:09 am

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:sn8gv0paqq3pm03lh3a1vs1ohfh1t3jeep@4ax.com...
> This is a very long post. I wrote it in October 1998 as I was trying
> to re-group my mind and analyze where I had been and where I was now.
> I was 8 years sober at this time and apparently had been posting on
> this newsgroup on the order of 5 years. This really is, one hell of a
> place. If you like a long read, be my guest:
> ==================================================================
>
> When I first went to AA, I latched onto the phrase 'rigorous honesty'
> as one which I would devote myself to. I was not a young man (neither
> old, as such) at the time, but I was old enough to want to try to
> separate 'wheat from chaff' in terms of my own self, and the way I
> viewed the world around me. I was determined to do this well, to not
> be 'half measured' about it. To follow it no matter where it might
> lead me.
>
> I didn't know, at the time, where my mind set was going to lead me.
> In fact, I was ( I thought) a believer in God. It was part of my
> 'ritual' that I (ironically it turns out) 'made this deal' with God,
> feeling that this supernatural power would lead me and I would just
> let go and follow. Now that's easy to say but there were no road
> signs. "Let go" of what? Follow what?
>
> What I did was to 'trust my intuition'. If I got an urge to do
> something, I would. If something happened 'in front of me' I would
> look at it, see where it lead, if indeed it did lead somewhere. I
> suppose that I became 'willing' as they say, and 'open' This, in its
> self was a change. As an educated person, I considered myself 'open'
> to ideas. I had been taught and trained to be 'open.' I thought and
> believed in my mind that ignorance came from close mindedness. And
> that ignorance was a place I was coming from, not going to. And I was
> open to the extent that I would listen to someone else, but I hardly
> learned much from that process. I already had my own ideas and it
> seems that I had to guard them. Funny thing to do with ideas, isn't
> it?
>
> There have been a number of years which have transpired since I
> dedicated myself to this 'mission.' My life is not littered with
> 'dedicated missions' so the fact that I stood with it is interesting
> to me. About the only real dedicated mission I had before was to come
> out of the military and finish the college that I had started in the
> military. I did and then some. I also dedicated myself to preserving
> my marriage, early on. I had come from a broken home, as had my
> father, and was determined not to carry on the tradition. The
> commitment to an education was, and still is, a very big plus in my
> life. The commitment to a marriage turned out, in glorious hindsight,
> to be unwise. It prolonged an inevitable parting of ways due to very
> serious incompatibilities which were actually there from the
> beginning.
>
> I am not at the road's end. But I am at a point where I can look at
> what's happened to me. And the differences between now and then.
>
> First, but not foremost, after some five years, I became an agnostic.
> First, I had to go through the process of unbecoming a Christian
> (which, in itself, was fearful and somewhat agonizing) I used the AA
> "God of my own understanding" to do that. I could create a better
> God, I thought, than the one which I was told to accept. And I did.
> And it worked very well. But even then, I found myself in a
> organization that said "God of your own understanding" but kept
> repeating Christian phases. Soon the arbitrary distinction that I
> made between the two seemed a bit self deceptive. I was trying to kid
> me. The same person whom I pledged to be honest with.
>
> Early on it seemed to be that I should learn more about the things
> that I didn't know much about. How could I really get a good view by
> shutting out some major areas of life. For instance, science. So I
> began to read and I read books on the various disciplines of science.
> When one would appeal to me, I would read more. I find that I have
> read more books over the past several years than I probably had in my
> life previous. I read books on evolution, on relativity, on particle
> physics, on molecular biology, on neuro biology, neuro chemistry, as
> well as the quasi science of psychology, particularly the various
> approaches to fathoming the human psyche. I literally have a wall
> covered with books that I read. I also read extensively on religions,
> primarily Christianity, though not only that. I did due diligence in
> researching the actual historical record (as far as is known) about
> Judaism, Christianity, and some of its offshoots. I discussed what I
> read, particularly in some of the more difficult areas where I didn't
> have the proper preparation in math and physics.
>
> I found a place where I could let others challenge the ideas (although
> I got a lot of personal challenges as well) that I thought I had
> learned. Usenet. Mostly the a.r. and a.r.aa newsgroups, but also
> others such as alt.atheism, alt.christianity, etc. The newsgroup
> thing wasn't around when I first started this 'journey' but a little
> more than five years ago, I found this alt.recovery.
>
> What has seemed to happen to me is that I have gotten closer to what I
> perceive as reality. The way things really are. Not only
> scientifically but in dealing with people or trying to get an accurate
> read on others. Not so much in a newsgroup environment (although it
> qualifies as well) but in my life, particularly at work, but also at
> home and elsewhere. A lot of my view of the world didn't pass muster
> is one way I can phrase it. I was indeed 'wrapped up' in myself to
> the extent that I was overly concerned with how I *looked* followed
> next by how I lived materialistically. It was a bit unnerving to
> discover how much I vested myself in how I might look to others.
>
> I can recall that I used to smirk about my ex mother in law because
> she would literally sweep dirt on the rug. She was one who was quick
> to say, 'what will others think'. When I discovered that I was in
> the same boat with her, paddling probably with more determination, I
> came a reality that I feel like I needed. I haven't lost the notion
> of 'caring how someone else sees me' but it is far less important to
> me today. The chips fall where they may. "when I am wrong, promptly
> admit it' How incredibly difficult that little ditty was. I would
> admit to 'admittable errors', items of little consequence, but was
> very forceful in not going to far down that road. I don't like the
> term "character defect" because that is a morality term and is cold
> and doesn't consider human nature, nor how one arrived at this so
> called 'defect.' I knew I needed to let the chips fall where they may
> and let things that needed to come out, come out without being edited
> or a spin put on.
>
> Reality, it turned out was a better fit for my temperament. With a
> primarily analytical, rational, problem solving mind, I had tried to
> overlay it with mysticism and it didn't work well. I tried it because
> I was told to, lead to, pushed to, and peer pressured to accept what
> the majority of my friends, fellows, and peers would accept. In
> considering what I needed to do be rigorously honest and stay sober,
> the fact that I would give up my own 'self', my own natural (seems
> that way to me) tendencies was self defeating. With alcohol, it
> became self destructive. I essentially denied myself, by and large.
> I had been raised that way and I had developed the proper fears of not
> being that way.
>
> I also don't delude myself, at work, for example. I can more readily
> and more accurately read the dynamics and politics, and fears and
> anxieties of a work environment. And I actually can and have,
> restrained myself (as best I could) from pointing this out to others.
> (See mommy, see what Gary has learned). Some of you may not identify
> with this accomplishment, but for me, I got control of my destiny much
> better. The other way, I wound up handing a lot of it to someone
> else. If you don't understand what I mean here, then perhaps your
> experience and views are different from mine.
>
> The down side, (if I can call it that) is that some of 'magic' is
> gone. The savior, the rescue man, who will inevitably pull me from
> the grasp of disaster being the first and foremost. Somehow I always
> believed what was taught me in Roy Rogers and Gene Autry movies.
> There was always a guy with a white hat who would rescue me. There
> was always someone else who would make my pains go away. And
> sometimes I surely need others, don't get me wrong. But the others I
> constructed were supernatural. They took me off into the sunset.
>
> There is no problem of 'good and evil'. Some of us are good and some
> of us are evil and about all of us are both in varying degrees and
> varying situations. How much better that resonates with my mind than
> a cosmological struggle. Perhaps there is a cosmological struggle,
> but I don't know it. And I have to resolved to try to base my life
> more on what I know than what I don't. Faith is certainly good. But
> in my life, it is highly overrated. If I am to shape and mold my
> life, then it is I who must do it and sometimes it is difficult work.
> Sometimes it a pleasure. How else could it be?
>
> All the while this was going on, I was growing older. Certainly my
> views were impacted by that process as much as any commitments that I
> made to myself. I need less. I care more. How else *should* it be?
>
> The newsgroup has helped me in that writing my thoughts and ideas and
> experiences makes me more aware. People responding seriously without
> rancor have been a large help. I don't count those who sort of make a
> mockery out of serious discussion and who are prolific in their
> posting. I think they are mostly a reflection of some of the problem
> minds of society at large. And of the illusion that life is some kind
> of joke. Ideas have consequences I was told. And I think they do.
> At least for me. There are many of you I would thank, even though
> some of you might be surprised at my 'gratitude'.
>
> I am almost convinced now that reality and life are not necessarily
> the same thing. If any of you have my traits, then you may discover,
> as I did, that reality is not something we seem to care much about.
> We'd prefer some illusion, some magic, some safe harbor in the mind.
> And I still do, from time to time. But you know, it's really been a
> hell of good trip for me so far and it's not a sparkling world, but it
> has it pristine beauty. And if there is a God, then God doesn't mind
> me this trip I think. If not, then I didn't mind it so I guess either
> way, I come out ahead of where I was.
>
> Best,
> GaryE

Thanks for sharing that again. We appreciate the personal insight,
especially since we weren't around to hear it the first time.

Tim and Lisa

2005-01-27, 6:09 am

"Tim and Lisa" <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:bcWJd.1289$WD4.133@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> "GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
> news:sn8gv0paqq3pm03lh3a1vs1ohfh1t3jeep@4ax.com...
>
>
> Thanks for sharing that again. We appreciate the personal insight,
> especially since we weren't around to hear it the first time.

|)

BTW in Oct 98 I was in a low indigent recovery home called the Roque center.
Tim

GaryE

2005-01-27, 6:09 am

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:53:54 GMT, "Tim and Lisa"
<tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:

>

>
>
>BTW in Oct 98 I was in a low indigent recovery home called the Roque center.
>Tim
>

I was in Boulder, CO. About then, I was going to the county detox unit
and half way houses in service work. It was a superb place to live.
I loved the AA there. Had many many friends. And the mountains were
right there, I mean, the went straight up right there. Magnificent
view called "The Flatirons". And Boulder was a very different kind of
small city, very close knit, with city restrictions on building new
homes and areas set aside as 'open spaces' in the community in which
building anything was not allowed. Totally different AA too, at least
from what I knew in North Dallas. Very tolerant AA, not concerned
with things with 'the right way' just that people got helped. Yes
they used the BB but people didn't get hit over the head with it. You
could be an atheist or agnostic and no one cared. Just that you were
sober or trying to. Had I stayed in Texas AA, I am sure that I would
have turned out more 'legalistic' and 'literal' and judgmental about
other people's program. More that the 'spirit of AA' was preserved.
I used to travel a lot and I went to other cities. A good deal in
Manhatten where I used to make meeting in the mid town area. They
also seemed 'less legalistic' and 'literal' (is that better than
saying Thumpers?) Guess it just means that your AA experience and
how you might turn out in terms of attitude will probably be more
associated with where you go to meetings than who you are. Seems that
way, anyway.

Best,
GaryE

Ron G

2005-01-27, 6:09 am

Kai Ruuska

2005-01-27, 6:09 am

Tim and Lisa kirjoitti:

>
> Thanks for sharing that again. We appreciate the personal insight,
> especially since we weren't around to hear it the first time.

|)
>

Learn how to snip your posts, please. Why do you have to quote the
entire post you're adding your, well, nothing to?

--
Kai

"Come, muse, let us sing of rats!"

Tim and Lisa

2005-01-28, 7:35 am

"Kai Ruuska" <soberon@luukku.com> wrote in message
news:cta6hg$ht4$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> Tim and Lisa kirjoitti:
>
>
> Learn how to snip your posts, please. Why do you have to quote the entire
> post you're adding your, well, nothing to?
>
> --
> Kai
>
> "Come, muse, let us sing of rats!"

Yeah, and get the money right, Hooker!!

Ted L.

2005-01-28, 7:35 am

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:sn8gv0paqq3pm03lh3a1vs1ohfh1t3jeep@4ax.com...
> And if there is a God, then God doesn't mind
> me this trip I think.

I don't think God cares nearly so much about what we believe as about what
we do. One of the appointed scripture texts for last Sunday (Revised
Common Lectionary, Year A, 3rd Sunday after Epiphany) deals with the calling
of the disciples. In neither it or any of the parallel texts does Jesus
give any kind of entrance exam, any questioning of belief. He just says,
"follow me." You seem to be doing a pretty good job at that, Gary.

--
Ted L.

Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.

GaryE

2005-01-28, 7:35 am

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:22:54 -0500, "Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote:

>
>The search for self is never ending and constantly changing as we get older.
>It's now five years plus. How do you see your life today compared to then?
>Obviously you have changed your views about God & some elements of AA. How
>else?
>
>RonG
>
Looks like 6 years plus. Heh. Math is a tough one, right?

Good question and I'll try to answer it. I am less secure in my age
so that weighs. I wrote that before the bubble burst and I was
hopeful of a $1MM retirement fund. I can tell you I'm no where near
that today. It effects me and my attitude in more situations than
not. I'd rather not be impacted. In this case, I'd rather not have
some of my basic drives and needs and be more, 'XXXX it' I'm just
going to do it best I can and let the wind blow. I try, don't get me
wrong. I don't enjoy being me in this aspect of me. I'm not going to
wind up like Willie Loman but ever since Death of a Salesman, Willie
has haunted me a little. I understand how careers traverse pyramids
very well.

On the other hand, I have many things to be grateful for. Health,
family, I can still pay my way and not have to rely on someone else.

I am still at peace with my decisions about God, although I am more
relaxed about the question of. It doesn't look like I'm going to
experience anything or learn anything that is going to change my mind,
although I'm still open to it, as best I can be, ever alert that I'm
can still kid myself.

I think more about the end of life. Maybe its a phase, I hope so. I
think that's good and bad. Good because I suppose its necessary to
accept one's mortality in a honest sense. Bad because it's a future
event that could impact today negatively and who needs that? My ex
wife and the mother of my four children has been dead for 3 years now
and the kids grieve still and I am glad we had a last minute 'moment
in the sun' of dropping our hostilities and being kind to each other.
But it was strange seeing her all blue and dead right after she
died...especially two days after we had our moment. A woman that I
lived with for almost 20 years.

On the other hand, I wouldn't change my decision about being with Joan
for anything. She truly has lit up my life and we did get to
experience, 'the world's greatest love affair' and I know that few get
that. When we were first together, I was convinced that we had been
together in a previous life and just lost each other.

I am more aware that I am not 'fulfilled' and may not get to that
point. And it may be because I've lost some energy and some drive and
some need. I'm not talking about business or money here, but getting
the motivation to put in the time and energy to do something. A
malaise of sorts. My talents, if you will, were actually a lot
better than how I ultimately applied them. That's a candidate for
psychoanalysis I guess but I think I know the answer to that one.
Fear of not succeeding. Fear of looking bad. In that order. Now I
understand that a good deal of what people try in life is not
successful. But they try and they come out better. It's not that I
didn't try to do some things I wanted to do, but that I omitted a
whole area of creativity that lives down deep inside of me.

And last, whether I'm right or wrong, is more irrelevant now. I try
to stay within myself with an understanding of what I've learned about
my tendencies and likes and dislikes and needs and fears, etc. I
still like a little competition, never quite understood why I was that
way. Maybe because I was all athletics as a young boy and man. Maybe
because I needed a way to win for my own self esteem. I don't really
know for sure. Answers sometimes look one way but they are not always
certain. Funny isn't it? How can you continue to 'search' and know
that even if you think you've found something, it maybe somewhat an
illusion.

I'm glad I got to live. Grateful for it. I may go to nonexistence
and so it's a blank ending, so I'm glad I got to do this thing. Make
sense?

Best,
GaryE

Chronocidal Charlie

2005-01-28, 7:35 am

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GaryE wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:53:54 GMT, "Tim and Lisa"
> <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I was in Boulder, CO. About then, I was going to the county detox unit
> and half way houses in service work. It was a superb place to live.
> I loved the AA there. Had many many friends. And the mountains were
> right there, I mean, the went straight up right there.

You scamp you. You didn't tell me you was going back up there in October.
You could have picked me up down in Cracker-Barrel when yew came down to
pick up them grand kids round about the 15th of September even if it was
raining like hell tween Addison and Austin and I could have got that
win.com you offered to fedex me and we could have rode up together. Here I
done loaded up the old Tempo, made a run all the way through the Raton on
the first weekend of October and topped it and looked off onto a fresh
blanket of snow over the Sangre de Christo Range and had to fight the
flurries all the way to The Springs and then on to Denver to take care of a
day's business and then turn around and come on back to Tejas. Came damn
close to going on to Boulder. ;-)

But just settled on driving straight back Temple.

CC
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Wayne and Maureen

2005-01-28, 7:35 am

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:i6giv0l46ma1pad26rgahu2hmvfb7uekrk@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:22:54 -0500, "Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote:
>
>
older.[vbcol=seagreen]
then?[vbcol=seagreen]
How[vbcol=seagreen]
Snip for space[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> And last, whether I'm right or wrong, is more irrelevant now. I try
> to stay within myself with an understanding of what I've learned about
> my tendencies and likes and dislikes and needs and fears, etc. I
> still like a little competition, never quite understood why I was that
> way. Maybe because I was all athletics as a young boy and man. Maybe
> because I needed a way to win for my own self esteem. I don't really
> know for sure. Answers sometimes look one way but they are not always
> certain. Funny isn't it? How can you continue to 'search' and know
> that even if you think you've found something, it maybe somewhat an
> illusion.
>
> I'm glad I got to live. Grateful for it. I may go to nonexistence
> and so it's a blank ending, so I'm glad I got to do this thing. Make
> sense?
>
> Best,
> GaryE
>

I read you then and continue to enjoy your writing through this medium of
usenet.
The wife and I have taken to a new life as RV'ers and meet many older
spirits who seem to enjoy the lack of futility
that they embrace...one last lesson to be learned....:> )
wayne

Craig S.

2005-01-28, 7:35 am

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:i6giv0l46ma1pad26rgahu2hmvfb7uekrk@4ax.com...

> I'm not going to
> wind up like Willie Loman but ever since Death of a Salesman, Willie
> has haunted me a little. I understand how careers traverse pyramids
> very well.

Those greeters at Wal-Mart generally seem to be pretty happy folks. There's
always that.

> I am more aware that I am not 'fulfilled' and may not get to that
> point. And it may be because I've lost some energy and some drive and
> some need. I'm not talking about business or money here, but getting
> the motivation to put in the time and energy to do something. A
> malaise of sorts. My talents, if you will, were actually a lot
> better than how I ultimately applied them.

I understand perfectly well what you're describing here, Gary. There is
always a lot of complaceny talked about around the tables, but I feel it now
on levels that feel very real rather than superficial. And the weird thing
is what an inside experience it is because most people looking at my life
from the outside would probably never guess it.

GaryE

2005-01-28, 7:35 am

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:03:31 -0600, "Ted L."
<TedL719nospamplease@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
>news:sn8gv0paqq3pm03lh3a1vs1ohfh1t3jeep@4ax.com...
>
>I don't think God cares nearly so much about what we believe as about what
>we do. One of the appointed scripture texts for last Sunday (Revised
>Common Lectionary, Year A, 3rd Sunday after Epiphany) deals with the calling
>of the disciples. In neither it or any of the parallel texts does Jesus
>give any kind of entrance exam, any questioning of belief. He just says,
>"follow me." You seem to be doing a pretty good job at that, Gary.

That's nice of you to say Ted. But. (and I like Jesus) If I'm
following Jesus, then it must be the same Jesus who took on the Thumps
of his time. Who thought the legalisms were destroying the spirit and
love and he said that was wrong. That it was not the 'words' that
flowed into a person but the 'words' who flowed out (pardon the
modification there, same difference to me). That those who thought
they were going to be first would be last, and of course those who
were low on the totem poll, would be moved up to first. That if
you've seen him, you've seen who sent him and that's as far as you
needed to know or go. That the real blessed are the poor, the
outcasts, the lonely.And that the Kingdom wasn't in the future, wasn't
over there, it was right here, right now, but the blind couldn't see
that. That everyone suffers death even a Messiah. And when he left,
he didn't leave a written word or codes but a Spirit.

My my. Whatever happened to Jesus?

Best,
GaryE

Ted L.

2005-01-31, 10:48 am

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:m99jv0ln4oehb2lg100f8d5nmdqebmefo0@4ax.com...
>
> My my. Whatever happened to Jesus?
>

Still knocking at the inn and finding no room, I think.

--
Ted L.

Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.

Craig S.

2005-01-31, 10:48 am

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:m99jv0ln4oehb2lg100f8d5nmdqebmefo0@4ax.com...

> My my. Whatever happened to Jesus?

I heard he was raking in loot hand over fist and instructing his followers
to erect ostentatious cathedrals and tabernacles in his name. Yep, these
days Christ is all about the bling-bling.

teeray

2005-01-31, 10:48 am

"Chronocidal Charlie" <clewis4@hot.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2UbKd.74733$Ta2.30558@fe2.texas.rr.com...
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> GaryE wrote:
>
>
> You scamp you. You didn't tell me you was going back up there in October.
> You could have picked me up down in Cracker-Barrel when yew came down to
> pick up them grand kids round about the 15th of September even if it was
> raining like hell tween Addison and Austin and I could have got that
> win.com you offered to fedex me and we could have rode up together. Here I
> done loaded up the old Tempo, made a run all the way through the Raton on
> the first weekend of October and topped it and looked off onto a fresh
> blanket of snow over the Sangre de Christo Range and had to fight the
> flurries all the way to The Springs and then on to Denver to take care of
a
> day's business and then turn around and come on back to Tejas. Came damn
> close to going on to Boulder. ;-)
>
> But just settled on driving straight back Temple.
>
> CC
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Sitting here at the foot of the Mountain Kings... (which, by the way saw you
coming damn close, well because they see everything... and far.) Now
Charlie, that's some amazing strength you have, coming right up in the
Chief's face like that and breaking the spell.
Damn. First I seen it. I am of much lesser strength. Probably because,

I've (after 30 years in this town) come to live at a place just east of
town, up on a hill, overlooking a lake, with a screensaver
better-than-any-postcard-i-ever-saw view of the front range. Right there.
In your face. And this morning? A fog drifted just below the peaks and all
around me. All you could see were the very tips of the flatirons and the
snow-covered divide beyond that... and then, like pink syrup oozing over the
horizon, the sunrize slowly began to lite everything up pink. Man... this
was like the real-deal pink cloud. And I was right there in it. Riding it
on the stern of my deck with my coffee and my dogs in my jammies. (Your
probably wondering what my dogs were doing in my jammies. But that's
another story.) Which by the way, when I happened to look down into Shelby
and Nali's eyes they helped me understand why they are the greatest of best
friends. And it's because they simply cannot lie. What you see in their
eyes is who they really are. What you think they are thinking, they ARE
thinking. They wear their hearts in their eyes and offer a love that is
powerfully simple and trustworthy. Sometimes I think I love my humans
almost as much...

Boulder AA... Welp, I found myself at the BoulderOne meeting a few weeks
back, which by the way has moved to a kind of hard to find place. A long
way from the ole' meat locker. It really had been years since I've been,
but I have this friend, and I said I would, so I did. I was amazed to find
myself returning to open arms, old friends, so many familiar faces... and
after all these years. Gary's right. There is a common element found
everwhere, that isn't found here at these meetings, and that's the judgment
or lack there-of. No-one said to me... "Where the hell have you been?"
"What? I thought you were dead" or anything near that. There were no
guilt-trips nor wagging fingers... nuthin' but a genuine warmth and a coupla
"I've thought about you so many times over these past years" "You've been
in my heart" and other mushy stuff. Made me wanna almost come back kind of
stuff.

I haven't seen Kimba... has she gone back under the bridge?

Love, teeray

Chronocidal Charlie

2005-01-31, 10:48 am

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teeray wrote:

> Sitting here at the foot of the Mountain Kings... (which, by the way saw
> you
> coming damn close, well because they see everything... and far.) Now
> Charlie, that's some amazing strength you have, coming right up in the
> Chief's face like that and breaking the spell.
> Damn. First I seen it. I am of much lesser strength. Probably because,
>
> I've (after 30 years in this town) come to live at a place just east of
> town, up on a hill, overlooking a lake, with a screensaver
> better-than-any-postcard-i-ever-saw view of the front range. Right there.
> In your face. And this morning? A fog drifted just below the peaks and
> all
> around me. All you could see were the very tips of the flatirons and the
> snow-covered divide beyond that... and then, like pink syrup oozing over
> the horizon, the sunrize slowly began to lite everything up pink. Man...
> this
> was like the real-deal pink cloud. And I was right there in it. Riding
> it
> on the stern of my deck with my coffee and my dogs in my jammies. (Your
> probably wondering what my dogs were doing in my jammies. But that's
> another story.) Which by the way, when I happened to look down into
> Shelby and Nali's eyes they helped me understand why they are the greatest
> of best
> friends. And it's because they simply cannot lie. What you see in their
> eyes is who they really are. What you think they are thinking, they ARE
> thinking. They wear their hearts in their eyes and offer a love that is
> powerfully simple and trustworthy. Sometimes I think I love my humans
> almost as much...
>
> Boulder AA... Welp, I found myself at the BoulderOne meeting a few weeks
> back, which by the way has moved to a kind of hard to find place. A long
> way from the ole' meat locker. It really had been years since I've been,
> but I have this friend, and I said I would, so I did. I was amazed to
> find myself returning to open arms, old friends, so many familiar faces...
> and
> after all these years. Gary's right. There is a common element found
> everwhere, that isn't found here at these meetings, and that's the
> judgment
> or lack there-of. No-one said to me... "Where the hell have you been?"
> "What? I thought you were dead" or anything near that. There were no
> guilt-trips nor wagging fingers... nuthin' but a genuine warmth and a
> coupla
> "I've thought about you so many times over these past years" "You've been
> in my heart" and other mushy stuff. Made me wanna almost come back kind
> of stuff.
>
> I haven't seen Kimba... has she gone back under the bridge?
>
> Love, teeray

Ain't gonna snip none of this out, but do understand Lady that I was jawing
about Oct. 1998 and that was my last opportunity to come back up that
direction. Unfortunately I didn't have a camera with me that morning when I
topped the Raton and looked off on them miles and miles of pure beauty.Sure
do wish I could though. Pueblo, Springs, Denver, Boulder, Telluride.... any
damn place but Tejas at this stage of life as long as it's spelled
Colorado.

Old Rick Touches what used to write for the Paper there in The Springs once
wrote an article spoofing and comparing Boulder and the Springs and the
congenial but sometime ribbing relationship 'tween the two.

Sed he'd been through Boulder recently and as he was driving through he seen
two fellers skate boarding out of city hall parking lot. Pierced, tattooed,
spiked and punked out to the max, high fiving each other as the split and
went different directions. Sed he fondly remembered thinking...

I wish our mayor and city manager in The Springs could get along that
well." ;-)

Good to see ya.

What ever happened to the other little Lady from up east of you out on the
prairie who used to post here and was always hoping she could stay upwind
from the cows that night?

CC

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