Abuse recovery - Helper...

Author

Helper...

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 5:46 pm

Hello,

I'm new here, having a hard time seeing trough the trolls. Are there any
People in this group?

If yes (*g*) I'd like to know more about you. Just a little bit of what
has to do with this place, like what you came to this group to do and
what did you end up doing; what are you interested in and what kind of
information would you like to find around here.

Well that'd be it. Thanks for any replies. =)

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Panther

2005-08-15, 5:46 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:GV5Me.1376$cE1.210608@news.siol.net...
> Hello,
>
> I'm new here, having a hard time seeing trough the trolls. Are there any
> People in this group?

I don't know what you are using as a newsreader so it's hard to say how much
spam you are seeing.

From my reader, most are frequent posters, sometimes we do get occasional
replies going to messages that were crossposted to quite a few other
newsgroups.

>
> If yes (*g*) I'd like to know more about you. Just a little bit of what
> has to do with this place, like what you came to this group to do and what
> did you end up doing; what are you interested in and what kind of
> information would you like to find around here.

As far as your other questions are concerned I doubt you will get many
serious replies. I'm inclined to think that you are trying to do some
'research' in some form, perhaps not. But when asked in this manner the
general reaction here tends to be, we're not someone elses lab rat :-).

Generally there is discussion about many topics. The reactions you see may
or maynot be based on levels of recovery from past abuses. I guess it's
been a place where people can try things out regarding how much they are
willing to divulge about what's going on with them. It is not necessarily a
place where one will get support for abuse issues but sometimes, depending
on the people involved, support might be given.

>
> Well that'd be it. Thanks for any replies. =)
>

If you can be clearer as to what you are looking for, I'm sure we can direct
you to an applicable newsgroup.

I noticed the INFJ so I gather you are into psychology?

Panther

>
> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"

Richar44d

2005-08-15, 5:46 pm

Surely you jest! Google some of the continuous posters and you'll see
what the NG is all about.

If you wanted research into dysfunctional displacement, narcissism,
psychosis, depression, and anger, you've come to the right place.

FWIW: I did try to get Google to change the name to;

alt.abuse.continuous

They laughed, but did nothing.

R

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 5:46 pm

Panther wrote:
>
> I don't know what you are using as a newsreader so it's hard to say how much
> spam you are seeing.
>
> From my reader, most are frequent posters, sometimes we do get occasional
> replies going to messages that were crossposted to quite a few other
> newsgroups.

To be percise, the header of my post indicates my newsreader, but indeed
I do not expect everybody to be able to decrypt that one. I am using
Thunderbird, I see all messages posted or crossposted to this group,
organized in threads.

> As far as your other questions are concerned I doubt you will get many
> serious replies. I'm inclined to think that you are trying to do some
> 'research' in some form, perhaps not. But when asked in this manner the
> general reaction here tends to be, we're not someone elses lab rat :-).

Hmm, I am inclined to wonder why would you consider yourself a lab rat
in this particular situation. Okay, it may be my way of expressing
myself, I am only trying to be nice.

> Generally there is discussion about many topics. The reactions you see may
> or maynot be based on levels of recovery from past abuses. I guess it's
> been a place where people can try things out regarding how much they are
> willing to divulge about what's going on with them. It is not necessarily a
> place where one will get support for abuse issues but sometimes, depending
> on the people involved, support might be given.

I suppose answers to questions would be one thing one can always expect
from a newsgroup. And there also usually is the element of socializing
with the bunch interested in this particular group.

> If you can be clearer as to what you are looking for, I'm sure we can direct
> you to an applicable newsgroup.

I am trying to make a convenient introduction. I am interested in THIS
newsgroup. On most other newsgroups that I reside, I try to provide
usable answers to whatever questions people have, I thought I might
provide some of that here as well.

I also have a few questions regarding abuse and recovery. Since they are
of somewhat sensitive nature, I am trying to test the terrain before I
know if it is 'safe' to ask them. I do not like to be ridiculed, I only
want honest, thoughtfull answers to my questions. So if I find out the
majority of the population here is okay with that, I will ask here, if I
find it is only certian people, I will address my question to them
personally, if I find there is noone here suitable to answer my
questions I will go elsewhere.

Anyhow, I think it might be evident by this point, why I am curious
about everybody in here. Nothing sinister, really. ;)

> I noticed the INFJ so I gather you are into psychology?

Ah, that is merely a form of personal self-disrespect (as is the rest of
the signature file). By including that I, hypothetically, clasify myself
to like minds.

I do not believe in stereotypes really and I do not believe that a
16-category based philosophy is worth any. Being thrown out forcibly
when trying to help a INFJ-only community sort of prooved my point well
enough.

As for wether I am "into" psychology or not, I can't say no. I am
genuinely interested in everything regarding psychology because I have
had problems related to it. Otherwise, by proffesion, education and
hobby I am a computer tech, so nothing related to psychology (unless you
consider analyzing the behaviours of artificial neural nets and learning
system as psychology of course).

Would that be a sufficive answer?

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 5:46 pm

Trying to ease my task at the configuration of my blacklist?

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Panther

2005-08-15, 10:45 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:l68Me.1382$cE1.210950@news.siol.net...
> Panther wrote:
>
> To be percise, the header of my post indicates my newsreader, but indeed I
> do not expect everybody to be able to decrypt that one. I am using
> Thunderbird, I see all messages posted or crossposted to this group,
> organized in threads.
>

I rarely bother to look at headers :-)

>
> Hmm, I am inclined to wonder why would you consider yourself a lab rat in
> this particular situation. Okay, it may be my way of expressing myself, I
> am only trying to be nice.

>

Actually I don't consider myself a lab rat <grin>. I just noticed that in
several of the abuse ngs people doing research are not always appreciated by
those they seek to ask questions of. Is english your first language?

>
> I suppose answers to questions would be one thing one can always expect
> from a newsgroup. And there also usually is the element of socializing
> with the bunch interested in this particular group.
>
A lot of the people who post here have known each other for quite a few
years. Some have met in RL and others not. Some get along, some get along
for a while and some don't get along. :-) Certain topics are more
controversial then others and some topics tend to get different peoples
gander up depending on how they fall on a topic. Things can be quite nice
here or god awful :-) It's generally not for the faint of heart.

>
> I am trying to make a convenient introduction. I am interested in THIS
> newsgroup. On most other newsgroups that I reside, I try to provide usable
> answers to whatever questions people have, I thought I might provide some
> of that here as well.
>

It's pretty much of a 'take what you need and toss the rest' type of ng.

> I also have a few questions regarding abuse and recovery. Since they are
> of somewhat sensitive nature, I am trying to test the terrain before I
> know if it is 'safe' to ask them. I do not like to be ridiculed, I only
> want honest, thoughtfull answers to my questions. So if I find out the
> majority of the population here is okay with that, I will ask here, if I
> find it is only certian people, I will address my question to them
> personally, if I find there is noone here suitable to answer my questions
> I will go elsewhere.
>
I would not consider this a 'safe' ng in regard to letting out personal
identifying info because friendships change rather rapidly here. Most of us
are pretty open about abuse issues though. Testing the water is always a
good idea :-) There are people here who have gone through varying levels of
abuse recovery. i.e. bearing in mind that abuse recovery is somewhat of a
spiral, just when you think you have one thing in hand another sometimes
surfaces. There are leveling off periods etc. No one has all the answers
and each person has their own unique way of dealing with recovery issues.

> Anyhow, I think it might be evident by this point, why I am curious about
> everybody in here. Nothing sinister, really. ;)
>

I'm thinking perhaps our communication types vary :-)

>
> Ah, that is merely a form of personal self-disrespect (as is the rest of
> the signature file). By including that I, hypothetically, clasify myself
> to like minds.
>
> I do not believe in stereotypes really and I do not believe that a
> 16-category based philosophy is worth any. Being thrown out forcibly when
> trying to help a INFJ-only community sort of prooved my point well enough.

There are a few groups that are psychologist oriented and I have to say they
are about as dysfunctional as it can get here :-). Usenet is still pretty
much the wild wild west.

>
> As for wether I am "into" psychology or not, I can't say no. I am
> genuinely interested in everything regarding psychology because I have had
> problems related to it. Otherwise, by proffesion, education and hobby I am
> a computer tech, so nothing related to psychology (unless you consider
> analyzing the behaviours of artificial neural nets and learning system as
> psychology of course).
>
> Would that be a sufficive answer?
>

You're doing just fine. Welcome to the newsgroup :-)

Panther

> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"

windswept

2005-08-15, 10:45 pm

X-No-Archive: Yes

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:l68Me.1382$cE1.210950@news.siol.net...
>
> I am trying to make a convenient introduction. I am interested in THIS
> newsgroup. On most other newsgroups that I reside, I try to provide
> usable answers to whatever questions people have, I thought I might
> provide some of that here as well.

Well you can't say you weren't warned. ;-) This used to be a newsgroup
about reovery from abuse but sadly not many recovered (I guess is the
simplest way of putting it). The order of the day seems to be to be as
abusive as possible to people who don't agree with the group consensus and
most especially to new people. For which I extend an apology for any
difficulties you have suffered thus far and a at least one warm welcome.

There are a few of us around who work independantly on some recovery
issues - I do a lot of spiritual searching at this point in my life. And
there are a group of us that hang around here, some lurk some post - who
hope like hell that this group at some point lives up to its potential.
Right now and for the past year or so our frustration level is pretty high
regarding the folks who as a group decide to abuse posters and proceed to
do so.

Its made this newsgroup kind of into an internet joke - abusive victims and
all.

All that aside - if you put in filters and blocks - this group can be
anything you want. I'd love it if someone would actually like to discuss
some issues. Remember the warning and put blocks in place as you go or you
will become distracted by the flames.
>
> I also have a few questions regarding abuse and recovery.

Ask away.

Since they are
> of somewhat sensitive nature, I am trying to test the terrain before I
> know if it is 'safe' to ask them. I do not like to be ridiculed, I only
> want honest, thoughtfull answers to my questions.

No one likes to be ridiculed - except for a few folks and they have issues I
think. ;-) Tonight I'm going to a study group around "The purpose Driven
Life" I don't know whether or not I'm fully in agreement with that
philosophy but some aspects of it have drawn me in. I guess you could say
I'm exploring. It gets quite interesting.

So if I find out the
> majority of the population here is okay with that, I will ask here, if I
> find it is only certian people, I will address my question to them
> personally, if I find there is noone here suitable to answer my
> questions I will go elsewhere.

Feel free to tap into email any time or here with blocks. A good discussion
is a very cool thing and doesn't happen here very often anymore.
>
> Anyhow, I think it might be evident by this point, why I am curious
> about everybody in here. Nothing sinister, really. ;)

So ask away.....
>

> As for wether I am "into" psychology or not, I can't say no. I am
> genuinely interested in everything regarding psychology because I have
> had problems related to it. Otherwise, by proffesion, education and
> hobby I am a computer tech, so nothing related to psychology (unless you
> consider analyzing the behaviours of artificial neural nets and learning
> system as psychology of course).

And there are always user issues..... I was involved in those. I was a geek
also - retired now - hoping to get back to work at some point part-time -
had a heart attack in May.
>
> Would that be a sufficive answer?
For some none - For me - you are doing fine so far and again.......

Welcome
>
> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"
>

--
For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact:
help@asarian-host.net -- for all info about our server.
If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page:

https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

cal

2005-08-15, 10:45 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:GV5Me.1376$cE1.210608@news.siol.net...
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander

INFP / ccsm

> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org

cat

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 10:45 pm

Panther wrote:
>
> Actually I don't consider myself a lab rat <grin>. I just noticed that in
> several of the abuse ngs people doing research are not always appreciated by
> those they seek to ask questions of. Is english your first language?

LOL. Right sorry, that lab rat thing didn't come out right.

From what I know of other newsgroups, USENET is a place rarely visited
by people from RL proffesions such as journalism or scientific research,
so commonly they do recieve a warm welcome, tho almost always fail to
get what they came there for.

And no, english isn't my first language. Another thing lurking in the
headers (*g*), is the point that I am posting from Slovenia (ARNES is
the national academic ISP), thus my first language is Slovenian (which
is a long way from English really). English is my second language.

>
> A lot of the people who post here have known each other for quite a few
> years. Some have met in RL and others not. Some get along, some get along
> for a while and some don't get along. :-) Certain topics are more
> controversial then others and some topics tend to get different peoples
> gander up depending on how they fall on a topic. Things can be quite nice
> here or god awful :-) It's generally not for the faint of heart.

I remember that one from the Therian community. That's a place I spent
most of my online time on. I assume tho, the situation here is not
nearly as sinister as there.

>
> It's pretty much of a 'take what you need and toss the rest' type of ng.

I am wondering what exactly does this mean. I mean, excluding the
trolls, does this fenomena still exist?

> I would not consider this a 'safe' ng in regard to letting out personal
> identifying info because friendships change rather rapidly here. Most of us
> are pretty open about abuse issues though. Testing the water is always a
> good idea :-) There are people here who have gone through varying levels of
> abuse recovery. i.e. bearing in mind that abuse recovery is somewhat of a
> spiral, just when you think you have one thing in hand another sometimes
> surfaces. There are leveling off periods etc. No one has all the answers
> and each person has their own unique way of dealing with recovery issues.

In regard to personal information, I have already gotten myself to the
point when I come to realize that it really can be only good if more
other people are given the chance to understand you and if in fact from
the information you have provided them, they missjudge you, it only
means you have not provided sufficient information. Trolls of course,
are a diffirent kind of problem... most of the time, bringing them to
the absurd will help resolve most doubts, but in a few particular cases,
that will not work; reffer to my google past for a few examples.

Really, in summary, what I am doing here is just verifying if I am just
another case of an assume-too-much-based-on-a-website type of person. As
tech, I am certiantly not immune to the internet:

I was just checking out a wikipedia website on the topic of "emotional
abuse" and there were the following symptomatic points:

1. emotional withdrawal/distance
2. parental refusal of needed medical care
3. premature sexual/romantic promiscuity for girls
4. lack of sexual interest (e.g. dating) for boys (with respect to
age, cultural, and religious beliefs)
5. shyness
6. child seems afraid of parents/care givers
7. stunting of mental/emotional growth
8. failure to look people in the eye
9. temper tantrums/violence
10. speech and language difficulties

I could be said to fit the bill for 1,4,5,6,7,8 and 9, which is 70% of
the possible symptoms.

There was another list:
a) You understand their feelings, but they never attempt to
understand yours
b) They dismiss your difficulties or issues as unimportant or
an overreaction
c) They do not listen to you
d) They always put their needs before yours
e) They expect you to perform tasks that you find unpleasant or
humiliating
f) You "walk on eggshells" in an effort not to upset them
g) They ignore logic and prefer histrionics in order to remain
the centre of attention
h) They manipulate you into feeling guilty for things that have
nothing to do with you
i) They attempt to destroy any outside support you receive by
belittling that support in an effort to retain exclusive control over
your emotions
j) They never take responsibility for hurting others
k) They blame everyone and everything else for any unfortunate
events in their lives
l) They perceive themselves as martyrs or victims and
constantly expect preferential treatment.

I could fit the bill there for A (all),B (all),C (dad),D (brother), F
(dad),G (brother), H (brother),J (dad, brother and grandmother), K
(grandmother) and L (grandmother). This is approximately 83%.

[Explanations:
A: Innitially, empathy was not one of my strong points, however once I
have managed to internalize a detailed set of doggie behaviours (due to
a funny social situation where people failed to actually see me as a
person but dogs did not) it went sky high and I settled in to a
lifestlye of basically trying to read other people's minds and always
aim to please. I have had a number of 'friends' and while they all
enjoyed my company for the things benerficial to them (affection and
support) I never got much of that back.

B: This would be, quite straightforwardly, my entire extended family
doing exactly that.

C: My father actually admited to having a problem listening to people,
my grandmother who raised me is exactly the same. This goes as far as my
father calling me on the phone and not listening to anything I say.

D: Actually, you could just call it arrogance. I don't usually have a
problem with authority and the need to have things done, as shows at my
work place, however I do not like a leader who can't appreciate the need
for Some flexibility.

F: It became quickly evident that unless I wanted everything to just go
erratically out of anybody's common sense, I had best hide all imperfect
things about my life from my father. Not that he would get violent, just
really really erratic in regard to how to get control of a situation.

G: He drops logic when convenient. Being the retrospecting kind of
person I am, where I try to avoid any problems in accordance to the
experience I have, this requires for the WrongDo&Punishment equastion to
be just a little bit logical. And for WrongDo to actually be present for
example.

H: See above.

J: I always thought this was a general characteristics of all humans.

K and L: Just the way she always was. As I heard, she was even harder
with this philosophy on her daughters (mom and aunt). Never made any
sense, always somebody guilty of something, which really wasn't all that
bad but it made her cry (my grandmother raised me for the majority of my
life, mom died when I was 6).]

I do not intend to confront anyone with these really. I tried to altert
them to it by example, but their response was that it was just the point
that I was terribly oversensitive (Hint: B). On the other hand,
explaining things in details to peers resulted in them being (or
pretending to be) rather horified and urging me into getting some Real
Friends.

I assume my sources of information are being somewhat too subjective
(for example the "sensitivity" bit was originaly invented by one of the
parents and then just passed along the family tree without anyone
actually giving any thought while adopting the 'keyword'). I'd like to
know the truth.

> There are a few groups that are psychologist oriented and I have to say they
> are about as dysfunctional as it can get here :-). Usenet is still pretty
> much the wild wild west.

I always thought it was the WWW that got the credit for being the
abbervation for "wild wild west". ;)

Anyhow, I'd appreciate anything at this point.

>
> You're doing just fine. Welcome to the newsgroup :-)

^.^

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

~Tina~

2005-08-15, 10:45 pm

I am new here as well. I have been lerking so that I could check the group out before posting anything.

windswept sorta sparked a interest with "The Purpose Drive Life" comment. I have both the book and the daily inspirations that go along with it. I myself have not yet gotten into reading it.. I always say what ever works to help us recover from any problem then all the better for us.

Myself I work a 12 step program for abuse survivors and also have therapy with a therapist and a shrink..

Hope to get to know you all better..

Tina

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 10:46 pm

windswept wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes

I think you will have to try harder if you want to convince the news
server to obey that tag. I made a program for it if you want I can dig
it up.

> Well you can't say you weren't warned. ;-) This used to be a newsgroup
> about reovery from abuse but sadly not many recovered (I guess is the
> simplest way of putting it). The order of the day seems to be to be as
> abusive as possible to people who don't agree with the group consensus and
> most especially to new people. For which I extend an apology for any
> difficulties you have suffered thus far and a at least one warm welcome.
>
> There are a few of us around who work independantly on some recovery
> issues - I do a lot of spiritual searching at this point in my life. And
> there are a group of us that hang around here, some lurk some post - who
> hope like hell that this group at some point lives up to its potential.

I don't think I'm that depressed just yet, if you will excuse the
innocent joke. The simple recepie was to do everything to stick to the
things that are really important in life, even if it means to quit being
what most people consider human.

> Right now and for the past year or so our frustration level is pretty high
> regarding the folks who as a group decide to abuse posters and proceed to
> do so.
>
> Its made this newsgroup kind of into an internet joke - abusive victims and
> all.
>
> All that aside - if you put in filters and blocks - this group can be
> anything you want. I'd love it if someone would actually like to discuss
> some issues. Remember the warning and put blocks in place as you go or you
> will become distracted by the flames.

I think I am generally used to flames, I've been around USENET long enough.

>
> Ask away.

It's all in my reply to Pather's post above, preety much summed up. In
my case, the recovery involves finding out what is going on.

> No one likes to be ridiculed - except for a few folks and they have issues I
> think. ;-) Tonight I'm going to a study group around "The purpose Driven
> Life" I don't know whether or not I'm fully in agreement with that
> philosophy but some aspects of it have drawn me in. I guess you could say
> I'm exploring. It gets quite interesting.

I find dwelling within my own mind is something I have done all my life.

> Feel free to tap into email any time or here with blocks. A good discussion
> is a very cool thing and doesn't happen here very often anymore.

I am a library on legs. I'll be sure to ask many interesting questions.

I only hope that I can find out what things people here consider
disturbing Before I upset anyone. Posting articles regarding child abuse
is very often what it takes to get kicked out of anywhere.

> And there are always user issues..... I was involved in those. I was a geek
> also - retired now - hoping to get back to work at some point part-time -
> had a heart attack in May.

I am of course also open to personal discussion. That thing in the
subject line is in fact the name of a particular group of people from a
real-time-chat network who specialize in helping... providing support in
all shapes and forms (tech and psychological); when I met them I was
quickly adopted into their midst, which is also why I put it in the
subject line.

> For some none - For me - you are doing fine so far and again.......
>
> Welcome

Thanks. =)

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 10:46 pm

cal wrote:
> "Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
> news:GV5Me.1376$cE1.210608@news.siol.net...
>
>
>
> INFP / ccsm

"ccsm"?

>
> cat

Wolf.

You are fammiliar with the therian scene? Preffer to just lurk by?

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

cal

2005-08-15, 10:46 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:q6bMe.1387$cE1.211136@news.siol.net...
> cal wrote:
>
> "ccsm"?

clear/clear/slight/moderate (respectively)
part of the assessment where i took it.

i like this writeup quite well:
http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html

what do you think of yours?
http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ.html

>
> Wolf.
>
> You are fammiliar with the therian scene? Preffer to just lurk by?

<squint>

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 10:46 pm

You're welcome. =)

Sometimes it helps to share, unlike a therapist, USENET and e-mail won't
cost you significantly. I'm all ears as usual. But of course, don't mean
to be pushy, it's all your choice, you know best. =)

~Tina~ wrote:
> I am new here as well. I have been lerking so that I could check
> the group out before posting anything.
>
> windswept sorta sparked a interest with "The Purpose Drive Life"
> comment. I have both the book and the daily inspirations that go along
> with it. I myself have not yet gotten into reading it.. I always say
> what ever works to help us recover from any problem then all the better
> for us.
>
> Myself I work a 12 step program for abuse survivors and also have
> therapy with a therapist and a shrink..
>
> Hope to get to know you all better..
>
> Tina

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 10:46 pm

cal wrote:
>
> clear/clear/slight/moderate (respectively)
> part of the assessment where i took it.

Ah. I think I forgot that part of my results.

I commonly take quizzies just for the sake of it, mostly they conclude I
am an extreemist.

> i like this writeup quite well:
> http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html
>
> what do you think of yours?
> http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ.html

It's quite accurate. The problem is that I'd think I am not being
objective in that I'd maybe like to say I am what I like. I'd rather be
judged by others really, I doubt I can accurately describe myself, even
tho I do hide most of the stuff inside me invisibly.

>
> <squint>

I figure I know what that means. =P Anyhow, still better described by
Wolf than by INFJ, if we are to say there's a diffirence. INFJs are very
rare.

Hm.

<squnts back then>

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

cal

2005-08-15, 10:46 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:3IbMe.1390$cE1.211462@news.siol.net...
> cal wrote:
>
> Ah. I think I forgot that part of my results.
>
> I commonly take quizzies just for the sake of it, mostly they conclude I
> am an extreemist.
>
>
> It's quite accurate. The problem is that I'd think I am not being
> objective in that I'd maybe like to say I am what I like. I'd rather be
> judged by others really, I doubt I can accurately describe myself, even
> tho I do hide most of the stuff inside me invisibly.
>
>
> I figure I know what that means. =P

oops, maybe not. a cat squint is friendly without being communicative just
at that moment.

> Anyhow, still better described by Wolf than by INFJ, if we are to say
> there's a diffirence. INFJs are very rare.

<assent>

> Hm.
>
> <squnts back then>

:-)

ok

Jure Sah

2005-08-15, 10:46 pm

cal wrote:
>
> oops, maybe not. a cat squint is friendly without being communicative just
> at that moment.

Ahh, most informative. I didn't know, honest.

>
> <assent>

I wonder how that one looks. *g*

>
> :-)
>
> ok

I thereby realize a *tailwag* would be in place, but I doubt it. Most of
those reactions are actually very very stealthy... asin I wouldn't do
anything at all to indicate them (it works for a very wide range of
positive reactions).

Oh, well.

*nothing*

;)

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Alan B. Mac Farlane

2005-08-16, 8:46 am

ya ... Richard is the newest troll ... he is out sabotaging like the Turd
Blossom would want him deux.

There are people here ... hang around and read ... ask questions ... do
research on people you like and read what they have posted in the past ...
you will get what you want easy enough.

What is going on here ... is recovery ... from PTSD issues ... living in
fear ... detoxing the brain of the bitter salty tears.

So as to learn to live in love.

Hope that is a help. And welcome to the newcomer.

sumbuddie who cares

in article GV5Me.1376$cE1.210608@news.siol.net, Jure Sah at
jure.sah@guest.arnes.si wrote on 8/15/05 12:20 PM:

> Hello,
>
> I'm new here, having a hard time seeing trough the trolls. Are there any
> People in this group?
>
> If yes (*g*) I'd like to know more about you. Just a little bit of what
> has to do with this place, like what you came to this group to do and
> what did you end up doing; what are you interested in and what kind of
> information would you like to find around here.
>
> Well that'd be it. Thanks for any replies. =)
>

Alan B. Mac Farlane

2005-08-16, 8:46 am

in article C78Me.1383$cE1.210950@news.siol.net, Jure Sah at
jure.sah@guest.arnes.si wrote on 8/15/05 2:51 PM:

> Trying to ease my task at the configuration of my blacklist?

chose well grasshopper ...

windswept

2005-08-16, 8:46 am

"~Tina~" <lilladysis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:cWaMe.272868$xm3.1751@attbi_s21...
I am new here as well. I have been lerking so that I could check the group out before posting anything.

Welcome also Tina.

windswept sorta sparked a interest with "The Purpose Drive Life" comment. I have both the book and the daily inspirations that go along with it. I myself have not yet gotten into reading it.. I always say what ever works to help us recover from any problem then all the better for us.

Thats definitely God centered material and I was very comfortable at the meeting - they have also covered Conversations with God - Book One - which I keep by my bedside. I love that book. Its the kinda God I can relate to - with a sense of humor.

Myself I work a 12 step program for abuse survivors and also have therapy with a therapist and a shrink..

I'm just starting yoga (twice a week) and the study group. I also got the daily inspirations for PDL - there it was in Kroger and I snatched it right up!! I'm very much into feeding the spirit lately.

Hope to get to know you all better..

Likewise. And welcome again.

Windy

Tina

windswept

2005-08-16, 8:46 am

X-No-Archive: Yes

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:r4bMe.1386$cE1.211136@news.siol.net...
> windswept wrote:

>
> I think you will have to try harder if you want to convince the news
> server to obey that tag. I made a program for it if you want I can dig
> it up.

You know it used to matter to me a lot - but now I don't have a problem with
whether or not my posts are archived and even more important I think - I
realize now why I cared then.

>
and[vbcol=seagreen]
And[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I don't think I'm that depressed just yet, if you will excuse the
> innocent joke. The simple recepie was to do everything to stick to the
> things that are really important in life, even if it means to quit being
> what most people consider human.

What matters most I believe is what *you consider human - other folks have
to judge for themselves. The aspect of what is *considered human is an
interpretive thing for the most part - which somtimes leads to
disagreements.
>
high[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
and[vbcol=seagreen]
discuss[vbcol=seagreen]
you[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I think I am generally used to flames, I've been around USENET long
enough.

Well then - you should get along fine.
>
>
> It's all in my reply to Pather's post above, preety much summed up. In
> my case, the recovery involves finding out what is going on.

My recovery has become one of moving away from the past and replacing a lot
of that stuff with new interests and pursuits
>
issues I[vbcol=seagreen]
Driven[vbcol=seagreen]
say[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I find dwelling within my own mind is something I have done all my life.

At some point I found that I needed more - that wasn't working for me
anymore. it was safe and less painful but lonely. I didn't realize that
part of giving and receiving love is also giving and receiving a certain
amount of pain - its always present. Now I'm getting ok with it and don't
fear it as much. I had to learn some about interpretation.
>
discussion[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I am a library on legs. I'll be sure to ask many interesting questions.

A lot of us are. I think people who are abused as kids often turn to books
if they can. Its a wonderful escape.
>
> I only hope that I can find out what things people here consider
> disturbing Before I upset anyone.

Like I said above - part of giving love is also giving pain because you
cannot control how people intrepret things. What may be just fine in your
head - once travelled to another persons head may trigger a memory of
something their father or brother or whoever did that they hated and there
you are in hot water. Most of the time it is totally out of your control.
I think the trick is to not own it - just to let them feel it if they must.

Posting articles regarding child abuse
> is very often what it takes to get kicked out of anywhere.

Well its hard to get kicked out of Usenet - but as far as I'm concerned you
can post anything - what I control is whether or not I read it - if I have
an interest, I will.
>
geek[vbcol=seagreen]
part-time -[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I am of course also open to personal discussion. That thing in the
> subject line is in fact the name of a particular group of people from a
> real-time-chat network who specialize in helping... providing support in
> all shapes and forms (tech and psychological); when I met them I was
> quickly adopted into their midst, which is also why I put it in the
> subject line.
>
>
> Thanks. =)
>
> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"
>

--
For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact:
help@asarian-host.net -- for all info about our server.
If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page:

https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Psycho-Bitch Eviscerator

2005-08-16, 8:46 am

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:42:02 GMT, windswept
<windswept@asarian-host.net> wrote:

>X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
>news:l68Me.1382$cE1.210950@news.siol.net...
>
>Well you can't say you weren't warned. ;-) This used to be a newsgroup
>about reovery from abuse but I was unable to reover and have been
>shitting on it happily for years.

Suzanne, I am impressed with this burst of honesty.

~*~ I am incredibly silly, so I emphasize you. My tropical liaison won't improve before I say it ~*~

Panther

2005-08-16, 5:46 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:3UaMe.1385$cE1.211219@news.siol.net...
> Panther wrote:
>
> LOL. Right sorry, that lab rat thing didn't come out right.
>
> From what I know of other newsgroups, USENET is a place rarely visited by
> people from RL proffesions such as journalism or scientific research, so
> commonly they do recieve a warm welcome, tho almost always fail to get
> what they came there for.
>

It's generally psychology students on various levels that approach the ngs.
Fortunately they have gotten a bit more saavy regarding how to ask :-)

> And no, english isn't my first language. Another thing lurking in the
> headers (*g*), is the point that I am posting from Slovenia (ARNES is the
> national academic ISP), thus my first language is Slovenian (which is a
> long way from English really). English is my second language.

Ah ok! I noticed even within this post I'm sometimes having a little
problem focusing on what you are asking. So if I don't seem to answer
something and am off base just point me in the right direction.

>
>
> I remember that one from the Therian community. That's a place I spent
> most of my online time on. I assume tho, the situation here is not nearly
> as sinister as there.
>

I'm not familiar with the Therian community. What are they about?

>
> I am wondering what exactly does this mean. I mean, excluding the trolls,
> does this fenomena still exist?
>

It means that if something doesn't apply to you, but is offered in reply
anyway then just disregard it and only take what does apply :-) (Flames
would also be in this category as would snotty answere LOL, i.e. to not take
into yourself and internalize - just consider the source and know that you
know what is best for you)

>
> In regard to personal information, I have already gotten myself to the
> point when I come to realize that it really can be only good if more other
> people are given the chance to understand you and if in fact from the
> information you have provided them, they missjudge you, it only means you
> have not provided sufficient information. Trolls of course, are a
> diffirent kind of problem... most of the time, bringing them to the absurd
> will help resolve most doubts, but in a few particular cases, that will
> not work; reffer to my google past for a few examples.
>

Sounds like you have a good handle on those type of situations :-)

> Really, in summary, what I am doing here is just verifying if I am just
> another case of an assume-too-much-based-on-a-website type of person. As
> tech, I am certiantly not immune to the internet:
>
> I was just checking out a wikipedia website on the topic of "emotional
> abuse" and there were the following symptomatic points:
>
> 1. emotional withdrawal/distance
> 2. parental refusal of needed medical care
> 3. premature sexual/romantic promiscuity for girls
> 4. lack of sexual interest (e.g. dating) for boys (with respect to
> age, cultural, and religious beliefs)
> 5. shyness
> 6. child seems afraid of parents/care givers
> 7. stunting of mental/emotional growth
> 8. failure to look people in the eye
> 9. temper tantrums/violence
> 10. speech and language difficulties
>
> I could be said to fit the bill for 1,4,5,6,7,8 and 9, which is 70% of the
> possible symptoms.
>

It's hard not to fall into most of those categories when abuse has been long
term. I think these categories do improve over time once we start to notice
them in ourselves. As self esteem improves so do those defense mechanisms.

> There was another list:
> a) You understand their feelings, but they never attempt to
> understand yours
> b) They dismiss your difficulties or issues as unimportant or an
> overreaction
> c) They do not listen to you
> d) They always put their needs before yours
> e) They expect you to perform tasks that you find unpleasant or
> humiliating
> f) You "walk on eggshells" in an effort not to upset them
> g) They ignore logic and prefer histrionics in order to remain the
> centre of attention
> h) They manipulate you into feeling guilty for things that have
> nothing to do with you
> i) They attempt to destroy any outside support you receive by
> belittling that support in an effort to retain exclusive control over your
> emotions
> j) They never take responsibility for hurting others
> k) They blame everyone and everything else for any unfortunate
> events in their lives
> l) They perceive themselves as martyrs or victims and constantly
> expect preferential treatment.
>
> I could fit the bill there for A (all),B (all),C (dad),D (brother), F
> (dad),G (brother), H (brother),J (dad, brother and grandmother), K
> (grandmother) and L (grandmother). This is approximately 83%.
>

These are common in dysfunctional families. They also tend to be passed
down until some members of the family break away from those behaviors. This
is not an easy thing to do because other members will continually seek the
status quo :-/ I think when we first start to notice it with out families
and our reactions to that then we also begin to see it in other parts of our
lives (i.e. what we let other people do to us). Because of all the
emotional baggage and hurt stemming from it happening on a family level we
tend to attach the same emotions when it is done by other people and at
times over-react. I think once our self esteem improves we also feel less
threatened by other peoples behaviors.

> [Explanations:
> A: Innitially, empathy was not one of my strong points, however once I
> have managed to internalize a detailed set of doggie behaviours (due to a
> funny social situation where people failed to actually see me as a person
> but dogs did not) it went sky high and I settled in to a lifestlye of
> basically trying to read other people's minds and always aim to please. I
> have had a number of 'friends' and while they all enjoyed my company for
> the things benerficial to them (affection and support) I never got much of
> that back.
>

I found that my expectations of 'friends' changed as I began to work through
personal issues. I don't know that this was particularly for me to do since
I am by nature a loner. Basically I'm an extroverted introvert <G> I did
find however that I had a habit of going overboard in friendships finding it
difficult not to be sapped by some of them. This took a while to see and be
able to identify. It's my belief that friendships should not sap the energy
out of you and when you see that happening it's time to step back and get
your internal balance back in sync.

> B: This would be, quite straightforwardly, my entire extended family doing
> exactly that.
>
> C: My father actually admited to having a problem listening to people, my
> grandmother who raised me is exactly the same. This goes as far as my
> father calling me on the phone and not listening to anything I say.

My mother does this chronically. Fortunately it doesn't matter much to me
anymore :-) Plus I'm selective in what I will tell her.

>
> D: Actually, you could just call it arrogance. I don't usually have a
> problem with authority and the need to have things done, as shows at my
> work place, however I do not like a leader who can't appreciate the need
> for Some flexibility.
>

You may want to notice if these people have power and control issues
themselves. It will be easier to identify if the feelings (in any given
situation) originate from you or from them. :-) You can't fix their baggage
so it makes your carrying load lighter :-)

> F: It became quickly evident that unless I wanted everything to just go
> erratically out of anybody's common sense, I had best hide all imperfect
> things about my life from my father. Not that he would get violent, just
> really really erratic in regard to how to get control of a situation.
>

I would think this is wise on your part :-)

> G: He drops logic when convenient. Being the retrospecting kind of person
> I am, where I try to avoid any problems in accordance to the experience I
> have, this requires for the WrongDo&Punishment equastion to be just a
> little bit logical. And for WrongDo to actually be present for example.
>

I'm assuming that you are old enough that he does not have punishment
control over you at this point in time?

> H: See above.
>
> J: I always thought this was a general characteristics of all humans.
>

Not really. Mainly dysfunctional people and families though. I think under
this heading also includes people who have an overly sense of entitlement.

> K and L: Just the way she always was. As I heard, she was even harder with
> this philosophy on her daughters (mom and aunt). Never made any sense,
> always somebody guilty of something, which really wasn't all that bad but
> it made her cry (my grandmother raised me for the majority of my life, mom
> died when I was 6).]
>

My mothers side was very much like this. It's a power and control issue for
them. As long as someone is "bad"; "not responding to them"; they try to
rally the rest of the family around the 'flagpole' so as to feel they are
getting back the power and control they sense they might lose.

> I do not intend to confront anyone with these really. I tried to altert
> them to it by example, but their response was that it was just the point
> that I was terribly oversensitive (Hint: B). On the other hand, explaining
> things in details to peers resulted in them being (or pretending to be)
> rather horified and urging me into getting some Real Friends.
>

LOL yeah I know this one!

> I assume my sources of information are being somewhat too subjective (for
> example the "sensitivity" bit was originaly invented by one of the parents
> and then just passed along the family tree without anyone actually giving
> any thought while adopting the 'keyword'). I'd like to know the truth.
>

Yes this was used with me also. 'that flighty' Panther; "oh she get SO
emotional" yadda yadda. I discovered that once I moved away people who met
me would say just how together I am and if anything very measured. The
family generally sees what they want or need to see; not who you are.

>
> I always thought it was the WWW that got the credit for being the
> abbervation for "wild wild west". ;)
>

LOL, I hadn't thought about that but I think you are right!

> Anyhow, I'd appreciate anything at this point.
>
>
> ^.^
>

Not sure if it helps but take the best and toss the rest <grin>

Panther

> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"

Jure Sah

2005-08-16, 5:46 pm

Oh, will someone just REPLY please?

I don't care if you're imperfect, any question can be answered even if
simply by "I don't know". Answer it PLEASE...

I wrote:
> Really, in summary, what I am doing here is just verifying if I am just
> another case of an assume-too-much-based-on-a-website type of person. As
> tech, I am certiantly not immune to the internet:
>
> I was just checking out a wikipedia website on the topic of "emotional
> abuse" and there were the following symptomatic points:
>
> 1. emotional withdrawal/distance
> 2. parental refusal of needed medical care
> 3. premature sexual/romantic promiscuity for girls
> 4. lack of sexual interest (e.g. dating) for boys (with respect to
> age, cultural, and religious beliefs)
> 5. shyness
> 6. child seems afraid of parents/care givers
> 7. stunting of mental/emotional growth
> 8. failure to look people in the eye
> 9. temper tantrums/violence
> 10. speech and language difficulties
>
> I could be said to fit the bill for 1,4,5,6,7,8 and 9, which is 70% of
> the possible symptoms.
>
> There was another list:
> a) You understand their feelings, but they never attempt to
> understand yours
> b) They dismiss your difficulties or issues as unimportant or an
> overreaction
> c) They do not listen to you
> d) They always put their needs before yours
> e) They expect you to perform tasks that you find unpleasant or
> humiliating
> f) You "walk on eggshells" in an effort not to upset them
> g) They ignore logic and prefer histrionics in order to remain
> the centre of attention
> h) They manipulate you into feeling guilty for things that have
> nothing to do with you
> i) They attempt to destroy any outside support you receive by
> belittling that support in an effort to retain exclusive control over
> your emotions
> j) They never take responsibility for hurting others
> k) They blame everyone and everything else for any unfortunate
> events in their lives
> l) They perceive themselves as martyrs or victims and constantly
> expect preferential treatment.
>
> I could fit the bill there for A (all),B (all),C (dad),D (brother), F
> (dad),G (brother), H (brother),J (dad, brother and grandmother), K
> (grandmother) and L (grandmother). This is approximately 83%.
>
> [Explanations:
> A: Innitially, empathy was not one of my strong points, however once I
> have managed to internalize a detailed set of doggie behaviours (due to
> a funny social situation where people failed to actually see me as a
> person but dogs did not) it went sky high and I settled in to a
> lifestlye of basically trying to read other people's minds and always
> aim to please. I have had a number of 'friends' and while they all
> enjoyed my company for the things benerficial to them (affection and
> support) I never got much of that back.
>
> B: This would be, quite straightforwardly, my entire extended family
> doing exactly that.
>
> C: My father actually admited to having a problem listening to people,
> my grandmother who raised me is exactly the same. This goes as far as my
> father calling me on the phone and not listening to anything I say.
>
> D: Actually, you could just call it arrogance. I don't usually have a
> problem with authority and the need to have things done, as shows at my
> work place, however I do not like a leader who can't appreciate the need
> for Some flexibility.
>
> F: It became quickly evident that unless I wanted everything to just go
> erratically out of anybody's common sense, I had best hide all imperfect
> things about my life from my father. Not that he would get violent, just
> really really erratic in regard to how to get control of a situation.
>
> G: He drops logic when convenient. Being the retrospecting kind of
> person I am, where I try to avoid any problems in accordance to the
> experience I have, this requires for the WrongDo&Punishment equastion to
> be just a little bit logical. And for WrongDo to actually be present for
> example.
>
> H: See above.
>
> J: I always thought this was a general characteristics of all humans.
>
> K and L: Just the way she always was. As I heard, she was even harder
> with this philosophy on her daughters (mom and aunt). Never made any
> sense, always somebody guilty of something, which really wasn't all that
> bad but it made her cry (my grandmother raised me for the majority of my
> life, mom died when I was 6).]
>
> I do not intend to confront anyone with these really. I tried to altert
> them to it by example, but their response was that it was just the point
> that I was terribly oversensitive (Hint: B). On the other hand,
> explaining things in details to peers resulted in them being (or
> pretending to be) rather horified and urging me into getting some Real
> Friends.
>
> I assume my sources of information are being somewhat too subjective
> (for example the "sensitivity" bit was originaly invented by one of the
> parents and then just passed along the family tree without anyone
> actually giving any thought while adopting the 'keyword'). I'd like to
> know the truth.

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Kaitlyn

2005-08-16, 5:46 pm

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:45:42 +0200, Jure Sah <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:

>Oh, will someone just REPLY please?
>
>I don't care if you're imperfect, any question can be answered even if
>simply by "I don't know". Answer it PLEASE...

Oh OK, but only because you begged! ;-)
[vbcol=seagreen]
>I wrote:

I fit 1,2,4,5,6,7 and 9.

Kaitlyn

astri

2005-08-16, 5:46 pm

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Jure Sah wrote:

> Oh, will someone just REPLY please?
>
> I don't care if you're imperfect, any question can be answered even if
> simply by "I don't know". Answer it PLEASE...

were you asking a question there? i didn't see a question. what question
would you like answered? or were you looking for feedback or "me too" or
something else? you gave a lot of information there about yourself and your
family, but it wasn't clear to me what you were looking for in return.

-- astri

> I wrote:
>
>
> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"
>

Jure Sah

2005-08-16, 5:46 pm

astri wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Jure Sah wrote:
>
>
>
> were you asking a question there? i didn't see a question. what question
> would you like answered? or were you looking for feedback or "me too" or
> something else? you gave a lot of information there about yourself and
> your
> family, but it wasn't clear to me what you were looking for in return.

The question was erm... I may have not made it evident yes...

I am wondering if my conclusion, that I have been emotionally abused, is
correct. If yes, how severely and what about it. If not, what really was
the thing that causes me to fit all those criteria and feel sort of
destroyed?
[vbcol=seagreen]

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Panther

2005-08-16, 5:46 pm

I think I just did :-)

Had to get some sleep first (I sleep odd hrs sometimes) and had to push out
some paperwork I promised to someone. (They've been waiting three days
-/ )

Sometimes answers are rapid fire here and other times you may not get an
answer for a day or two. It depends on people's schedules in RL.

I know that I may do a quick reply if it's a one or two word answer. There
was quite a bit that one could answer there.

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:48tMe.1411$cE1.214665@news.siol.net...
> Oh, will someone just REPLY please?
>
> I don't care if you're imperfect, any question can be answered even if
> simply by "I don't know". Answer it PLEASE...
>
> I wrote:
>
>
> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"

Jure Sah

2005-08-16, 10:46 pm

Panther wrote:
> Ah ok! I noticed even within this post I'm sometimes having a little
> problem focusing on what you are asking. So if I don't seem to answer
> something and am off base just point me in the right direction.

Ah yes, I am notorious for making those extreemely long sentences. My
average sentence used to be one per paragraph, but I decided to improove
my clarity since. I am trying hard.

As it was said before, it's all very clear and perfect when in my mind
(I love double meanings so I put them in whenever possible), but when
somebody else reads it, it's very hard to understand. That is why I
often re-read my posting several times in diffirent word warp styles
before posting.

>
> I'm not familiar with the Therian community. What are they about?

I wrote a small dictionary about it, the link is in my signature file.

It's a medium-sized community I am part of, that is basically half way
between a cult practicing totemic beliefs and bioengineered human-animal
hybrids, to describe it in radical terms. In practice, they are a very
diverse bunch of people who have nothing to do with oneanother, other
than they believe they are part animal. They are also notoriously fond
of reminding everybody the distinction between fact and fiction and
making triple-sure you aren't doing anything harmfull to yourself if
following that belief and not taking the whole thing to anything beyond
the core belief (e.g.: It's not a religion and if it were ever to be,
it's considered a health hazard).

With all that making-sure-you-don't-disagree, it may seem preety vicious
to anyone looking to only make an emotional relationship with someone
their own species. Some species can be savage and anti-social at times. ;)

>
> It means that if something doesn't apply to you, but is offered in reply
> anyway then just disregard it and only take what does apply :-) (Flames
> would also be in this category as would snotty answere LOL, i.e. to not take
> into yourself and internalize - just consider the source and know that you
> know what is best for you)

That will be a hard one. I know myself to internalize everything I pick
up quite against my will and even when I know it's not true.

For example spending a day talking to a friend, whatching a science
fiction movie and spending some time researching XML-based technologies
will leave me speaking XML and semi-communicating it on telepathy with
my friends at the end of the day. *g* It tends to normalize as I
assimilate more information tho, so it's not a problem most of the
times. My memory is a bit erratic as a consequence, but I'm still sane! ;)

>
> Sounds like you have a good handle on those type of situations :-)

I have learned it the hard way over the last few years online. Lost a
friend who was trolled into believing that I am a pedophile. :/ ...and
yes I internalized that too... it took a while (approx 3 years) to
filter it out of my mind.

>
> It's hard not to fall into most of those categories when abuse has been long
> term. I think these categories do improve over time once we start to notice
> them in ourselves. As self esteem improves so do those defense mechanisms.

Erm, well... so IS it abuse?

The thing is... I have never really gotten a chance to talk to somebody
about it. Been holding all the questions within me for long. People
preffer not to talk about it and will do everything they can not to get
into a discussion like that one, so I just put on something they liked
to see on my face.

I noticed that as I got answer to questions regarding this, I began to
open up and it was good for me. I noticed I am a kind of radical
personality, when it was about the things I did because others wanted me
to have them that way, I am extreemely calm and logical. People who
don't know me well concieve me as a computer that looks like a boy. On
the other hand, when I do the things that I really am comfortable in
doing, it is something completely diffirent... I feel insulted by being
compared to a computer. And the point on what I want is further confused
by the point that if asked questions, I will do what I think is expected
of me.

You would say I look the person in the eyes and tell them exactly what
they wanted to hear from me at that particular time, even if they did
everything not to show it. [Now except I don't look people in the eyes,
I always look down. To look someone in the eyes is terrifying to me
unless I care about them deeply in the sense that they are someone I
personally take care of.] This got me near-raped once (thank god that
someone decided the sex was to follow the next day), I tend to loose all
trace of myself when faced with somebody's wishes, even if those are bad
for me.

My current defense is to isolate myself from that specific type of
people, but this will only work if I can figure them out in time. Is
this okay?

> These are common in dysfunctional families. They also tend to be passed
> down until some members of the family break away from those behaviors. This
> is not an easy thing to do because other members will continually seek the
> status quo :-/ I think when we first start to notice it with out families
> and our reactions to that then we also begin to see it in other parts of our
> lives (i.e. what we let other people do to us). Because of all the
> emotional baggage and hurt stemming from it happening on a family level we
> tend to attach the same emotions when it is done by other people and at
> times over-react. I think once our self esteem improves we also feel less
> threatened by other peoples behaviors.

Hmm, I wonder. I have always been said to be very self-confident. And
when taking care of another person I am. It's just that when it's about
me... I have always had various places where to hide from my family,
even tho nobody in my family was ever particulary violent (I was
phyisically forced into doing some things to the extent it became
uncomfortable on a few occasions by my brother, but not much beyond
that). As a kid I would curl up in a ball, later it was school, then
high school (I did not achieve anything out of the ordinary, my grades
were always a little below average, as I consider normal for me, but I
did feel safe there), then when I got the job, I just sticked around at
work all day (litterately), so that I didn't have to be around my family.

> I found that my expectations of 'friends' changed as I began to work through
> personal issues. I don't know that this was particularly for me to do since
> I am by nature a loner. Basically I'm an extroverted introvert <G> I did
> find however that I had a habit of going overboard in friendships finding it
> difficult not to be sapped by some of them. This took a while to see and be
> able to identify. It's my belief that friendships should not sap the energy
> out of you and when you see that happening it's time to step back and get
> your internal balance back in sync.

Well as far as my expectations go, my idea of the whole thing was that
we stay friends like, forever. The reality however was that the moment I
did something that wasn't in their explicit interest, I would be left
without the said 'friends'.

I would end up clinging desperately to whatever friends I ever had,
doing everything within my power to keep them even with those extreemely
few that weren't about to leave me anyway. It's a bit irrational and
generally not good for my wallet, so I am wondering what to do about
that one too.

>
> My mother does this chronically. Fortunately it doesn't matter much to me
> anymore :-) Plus I'm selective in what I will tell her.

The thing is that, he persists. He calls me all the time and doesn't
listen to me... I started slamming the phone when I was starting to
loose it over it eventually, so whenever somebody saw me slam the phone,
they asked if it was my father that called me. That's another irrational
solution to a problem, I've no idea what the right one is.

And then after a while I will begin to miss my dad and maybe he felt
offended and *worry*worry*worry*worry* and I'll contact him in every way
I can and then be his puppy for a few days. It makes him feel he really
owns me and hey I like to be owned but still argh, wish we had the
option to choose our parents sometimes. =P

>
> You may want to notice if these people have power and control issues
> themselves. It will be easier to identify if the feelings (in any given
> situation) originate from you or from them. :-) You can't fix their baggage
> so it makes your carrying load lighter :-)

Hmm I know it's his baggage, but ehrm. For example the situation, when
something on his computer broke and he prevented me from leaving the
room untill it was working right (and I didn't even brake the thing), I
worked the whole day and then in the evening when he came home from
somewhere he yelled at me for... well, it! Whatever it was that I did
wrong. No really, sherlock, it's his baggage but I still feel hurt for
it and it's a nasty logical paradox, the more you think about it the
more guilty you feel and there is no way out. I retrospect a lot and
that one was really a nuke to my heart. And I get this all the time.

I don't know what I'm supposed to use against that. People say, think
less and take a beer, but I hate alchocol and never stopped thinking so far.

>
> I would think this is wise on your part :-)

He never had any of the problems I had, he's always been perfect in
school. I realized he just didn't know how to handle any of my problems,
because he didn't know what advice to give he would just go erratic. It
always resulted in the problem getting worse, untill we got into such a
bad argument about it that he just gave up. And he never liked to do any
of the things that was otherwise expected of parents of schooling
children, so keeping him clear of the thing wasn't much of a challenge
in the end.

>
> I'm assuming that you are old enough that he does not have punishment
> control over you at this point in time?

It doesn't take much for me to get the point of punnishment. Wish me
punnished and I will feel that way. They have learned after all, that I
don't care much about the punnishments, what they can do tho is do
damage to the things I care about. Not hard to do when you're a
charity-orientated computertech and a heart and soul botanist. It
wouldn't be the first time for me to hear that kind of punnishment
sucks, but with people this erratic you really can't know.

>
> Not really. Mainly dysfunctional people and families though. I think under
> this heading also includes people who have an overly sense of entitlement.

I don't understand that second part.

> My mothers side was very much like this. It's a power and control issue for
> them. As long as someone is "bad"; "not responding to them"; they try to
> rally the rest of the family around the 'flagpole' so as to feel they are
> getting back the power and control they sense they might lose.

Exactly!

Well most of the time I just don't mind being the universal bad boy
hehe. After all, I'm just an animal, there are many things I don't
deserve. ;)

I think people came to call this <translation missing>, a quite a
positive trait for a person.

>
> LOL yeah I know this one!

It's really not very informative... What does it mean?

> Yes this was used with me also. 'that flighty' Panther; "oh she get SO
> emotional" yadda yadda. I discovered that once I moved away people who met
> me would say just how together I am and if anything very measured. The
> family generally sees what they want or need to see; not who you are.

Quite what I got too.

> Not sure if it helps but take the best and toss the rest <grin>

It's very nice of you. I haven't had a conversation like this in a very
long long time.

I'm just looking for the support & information here, if unclear.

*tailwag*

Thanks.

--
Model: INFJ
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

Yes I'm a therian:
http://www.wikitherian.org

Creationism & Darwin:
"The bible says humans were
supposed to use animals to
do work for them and I like
to work so I must be an animal!"

Jure Sah

2005-08-16, 10:46 pm

Panther wrote:
> I think I just did :-)
>
> Had to get some sleep first (I sleep odd hrs sometimes) and had to push out
> some paperwork I promised to someone. (They've been waiting three days
> -/ )
>
> Sometimes answers are rapid fire here and other times you may not get an
> answer for a day or two. It depends on people's schedules in RL.
>
> I know that I may do a quick reply if it's a one or two word answer. There
> was quite a bit that one could answer there.

It's okay when indicated really. I can understand somebody will decide
to only reply a 16kb bible-post when with enough time to do so properly.

It's just that these questions I have held within for so long because
nobody would want to answer them... Now that I asked them here, I got a
kind of new hope and got really excited over it, thinking about what the
response will be all the time.

The silence was quite tormenting!

As for regardin odd sleeping hours and lots of work to do, I can
understand that one, trust me! ;)

Psycho-Bitch Eviscerator

2005-08-16, 10:46 pm

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:45:42 +0200, Jure Sah <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:

>Oh, will someone just REPLY please?
>
>I don't care if you're imperfect, any question can be answered even if
>simply by "I don't know". Answer it PLEASE...

I'm not quite sure what the question is. Are you asking me if I think
you were emotionally abused or neglected?

~*~ I am incredibly silly, so I emphasize you. My tropical liaison won't improve before I say it ~*~

Psycho-Bitch Eviscerator

2005-08-16, 10:46 pm

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 00:20:05 +0200, Jure Sah <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:

<snip>

>I am wondering if my conclusion, that I have been emotionally abused, is
>correct. If yes, how severely and what about it. If not, what really was
>the thing that causes me to fit all those criteria and feel sort of
>destroyed?

<snip>

It would be easier for me if you gave me specific stories to judge.
Easier for me, anyway - that's just the way I process.

~*~ I am incredibly silly, so I emphasize you. My tropical liaison won't improve before I say it ~*~

Psycho-Bitch Eviscerator

2005-08-16, 10:46 pm

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 01:57:57 +0200, Jure Sah <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:

>Panther wrote:
>
>Ah yes, I am notorious for making those extreemely long sentences. My
>average sentence used to be one per paragraph, but I decided to improove
>my clarity since. I am trying hard.
>
>As it was said before, it's all very clear and perfect when in my mind
>(I love double meanings so I put them in whenever possible), but when
>somebody else reads it, it's very hard to understand. That is why I
>often re-read my posting several times in diffirent word warp styles
>before posting.
>
>
>I wrote a small dictionary about it, the link is in my signature file.
>
>It's a medium-sized community I am part of, that is basically half way
>between a cult practicing totemic beliefs and bioengineered human-animal
>hybrids, to describe it in radical terms. In practice, they are a very
>diverse bunch of people who have nothing to do with oneanother, other
>than they believe they are part animal. They are also notoriously fond
>of reminding everybody the distinction between fact and fiction and
>making triple-sure you aren't doing anything harmfull to yourself if
>following that belief and not taking the whole thing to anything beyond
>the core belief (e.g.: It's not a religion and if it were ever to be,
>it's considered a health hazard).
>
>With all that making-sure-you-don't-disagree, it may seem preety vicious
>to anyone looking to only make an emotional relationship with someone
>their own species. Some species can be savage and anti-social at times. ;)

Do you know how strange this sounds? I read the stuff in your link
and I'm having a *very* difficult time taking this seriously.

Then again, I suppose it isn't any stranger than believing one can
commune with the gods and cast spells : |

<snip>

~*~ I am incredibly silly, so I emphasize you. My tropical liaison won't improve before I say it ~*~

Panther

2005-08-16, 10:46 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:J7vMe.1415$cE1.214985@news.siol.net...
> Panther wrote:
>
> It's okay when indicated really. I can understand somebody will decide to
> only reply a 16kb bible-post when with enough time to do so properly.
>
> It's just that these questions I have held within for so long because
> nobody would want to answer them... Now that I asked them here, I got a
> kind of new hope and got really excited over it, thinking about what the
> response will be all the time.
>
> The silence was quite tormenting!
>
> As for regardin odd sleeping hours and lots of work to do, I can
> understand that one, trust me! ;)

>

I understand :-) It can be frustrating! Particularly when something has
been held in for so long. Also when you figure part of the content had to
deal with not being heard <VBG> It's kind of like "Hey! What's wrong with
this picture!!!"

Panther

> --
> Model: INFJ
> Primary function: Coprocessor
> Secondary function: Cluster commander
>
> Yes I'm a therian:
> http://www.wikitherian.org
>
> Creationism & Darwin:
> "The bible says humans were
> supposed to use animals to
> do work for them and I like
> to work so I must be an animal!"

Panther

2005-08-16, 10:46 pm

"Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:44vMe.1414$cE1.214631@news.siol.net...
> Panther wrote:
>
> Ah yes, I am notorious for making those extreemely long sentences. My
> average sentence used to be one per paragraph, but I decided to improove
> my clarity since. I am trying hard.
>
> As it was said before, it's all very clear and perfect when in my mind (I
> love double meanings so I put them in whenever possible), but when
> somebody else reads it, it's very hard to understand. That is why I often
> re-read my posting several times in diffirent word warp styles before
> posting.
>
>
> I wrote a small dictionary about it, the link is in my signature file.
>
> It's a medium-sized community I am part of, that is basically half way
> between a cult practicing totemic beliefs and bioengineered human-animal
> hybrids, to describe it in radical terms. In practice, they are a very
> diverse bunch of people who have nothing to do with oneanother, other than
> they believe they are part animal. They are also notoriously fond of
> reminding everybody the distinction between fact and fiction and making
> triple-sure you aren't doing anything harmfull to yourself if following
> that belief and not taking the whole thing to anything beyond the core
> belief (e.g.: It's not a religion and if it were ever to be, it's
> considered a health hazard).
>

Kind of like where people have totems?

> With all that making-sure-you-don't-disagree, it may seem preety vicious
> to anyone looking to only make an emotional relationship with someone
> their own species. Some species can be savage and anti-social at times. ;)
>

Is it game playing then?

>
> That will be a hard one. I know myself to internalize everything I pick up
> quite against my will and even when I know it's not true.
>
> For example spending a day talking to a friend, whatching a science
> fiction movie and spending some time researching XML-based technologies
> will leave me speaking XML and semi-communicating it on telepathy with my
> friends at the end of the day. *g* It tends to normalize as I assimilate
> more information tho, so it's not a problem most of the times. My memory
> is a bit erratic as a consequence, but I'm still sane! ;)
>

I think that comes with being engrossed in a topic or certain interest. I
generally shut out just about everything if I'm focused on a particular
project. It takes a little while to get back into the swing of what is
going on around me. I've always thought perhaps that was because I'm most
comfortable as a loner particularly when it comes to problem solving. I
enjoy people but if it is for too long or too many people around I tire
easily and then need a few days quiet time to get my balance back :-)

>
> I have learned it the hard way over the last few years online. Lost a
> friend who was trolled into believing that I am a pedophile. :/ ...and yes
> I internalized that too... it took a while (approx 3 years) to filter it
> out of my mind.
>

I think as you discover more about yourself and who you are this will happen
less and less. I have a pretty strong sense of Self so what another might
think doesn't have much effect on me. Years ago I would have felt
devastated and worried a lot. But now I am very conscious of what I do and
why I do it so there are many 'hooks' that a person can attach their luggage
too anymore.

>
> Erm, well... so IS it abuse?
>

It can be abuse. We all can be considered to be abusive at times. I think
it depends on whether it is a pattern that we regularly display. Also I
feel abuse tends to occur when those reactions are pushed to either end of
the spectrum. I believe that there are times when being assertive is
appropriate and necessary. The same thing might be abuse in another
circumstance.

As far as spectrums go it is not unusual for victims of long term abuse to
either become abusive themselves (called identifying with the abuser) or to
become a chronic 'victims', sometimes referred to the 'doormat syndrome'.
In the second case we become abusers to ourselves in many ways :-)

> The thing is... I have never really gotten a chance to talk to somebody
> about it. Been holding all the questions within me for long. People
> preffer not to talk about it and will do everything they can not to get
> into a discussion like that one, so I just put on something they liked to
> see on my face.
>

I remember when I first was addressing these issues. I was in a therapy
group and I asked 'what is emotional abuse'. No one could answer me!! No
examples or anything!! This was pretty bad because my ex was not physically
abusive but was horribly psychologically (emotionally) abusive. You
consider yourself crazy and that you are just paranoid and of course if you
question the abuser when you 'think' something is occurring they deny it and
tell you you are paranoid or crazy!! Real vicious circle! So I tried to
find out if others thought this type of thing was normal. At the time there
was not even anything written on the subject that I could find so I was at
quite a loss :-( Now they do have more written about psychological and
emotional abuse but back then there was nada. I finally came to the
conclusion that you can identify emotional abuse if you feel like someone
just walked up and punched you in the stomach. We can all pretty much
identify physical abuse, it's overt, it's right out there. Emotional abuse
is covert (hidden) but it's effects are the same. You feel like you were
just punched in the stomach and it hurts.

> I noticed that as I got answer to questions regarding this, I began to
> open up and it was good for me. I noticed I am a kind of radical
> personality, when it was about the things I did because others wanted me
> to have them that way, I am extreemely calm and logical. People who don't
> know me well concieve me as a computer that looks like a boy. On the other
> hand, when I do the things that I really am comfortable in doing, it is
> something completely diffirent... I feel insulted by being compared to a
> computer. And the point on what I want is further confused by the point
> that if asked questions, I will do what I think is expected of me.
>

I don't think there is anything wrong with viewing things logically,
certainly there are many times when that is very appropriate. Certainly in
a lot of our business or professional rolls. Perhaps this is unsettling for
people who are very spontaneous. A person who is use to seeing you in your
business roll just isn't aware of other sides of you. One thing I can
mention though that I noticed about myself is that sometimes I do get too
serious and I forget to have a sense of 'play'. This can appear worse when
I am out socially with people I do not know well or am not comfortable with.
There are other people who can only picture me as a cut up and rarely see
the more serious side. What we need to do ultimately, I think, is strike a
balance of the two. When you come from a dysfunctional family this may not
come naturally :-)

> You would say I look the person in the eyes and tell them exactly what
> they wanted to hear from me at that particular time, even if they did
> everything not to show it. [Now except I don't look people in the eyes, I
> always look down. To look someone in the eyes is terrifying to me unless I
> care about them deeply in the sense that they are someone I personally
> take care of.] This got me near-raped once (thank god that someone decided
> the sex was to follow the next day), I tend to loose all trace of myself
> when faced with somebody's wishes, even if those are bad for me.
>
I see this is something that you will need to work on. Generally when one
cannot look a person in the eyes it comes from feeling insignificant
themselves i.e. low self esteem. I've always been one to look a person in
the eyes (for me, yes, the eyes are the windows of the soul). I had to make
a conserted effort when I was in therapy not to do that and the reason why I
stopped was because I tended to instinctively being reading the therapist.
Since I couldn't stop myself from my chronic 'mind/pattern reading' the best
I could do was just not to look her in the eyes. I remember mentioning this
to her a few years later and she said she had wondered about that.

I think that once we know who we are and accept both our strengths and
weaknesses we are better able to give of ourselves without 'giving up
ourselves'. Looking at a person in the eye doesn't become an issue then
because we are no longer afraid of what we might see and we are confident we
will respond in a way that we are being true to ourselves ( i.e. true to our
Self)

> My current defense is to isolate myself from that specific type of people,
> but this will only work if I can figure them out in time. Is this okay?

Yes I think it is ok. I recall my therapist at one point in time telling me
that just because I was in therapy didn't mean that I had to suddenly shed
every and all defense mechanisms I had used for most of my life. The
defense mechanisms were there for a reason and they protected me and I
should honor my creativity in their use :-). It's just that eventually each
one was needed less and less. This was a tremendous relief for me when she
said that! At certain times I needed to isolate myself - it's where I did
an awful lot of healing work without distractions surrounding me. I think
isolation becomes harmful if we begin to use it too often and for two many
things then we are really backsliding.

fwiw, I still will use my defense mechanisms when I feel there is a danger
or when I feel it's appropriate to a situation. Sometimes it's the only way
I can remember that now I have choices and also the time to decide what
choices I wish to make.

>
>
> Hmm, I wonder. I have always been said to be very self-confident. And when
> taking care of another person I am. It's just that when it's about me... I
> have always had various places where to hide from my family, even tho
> nobody in my family was ever particulary violent (I was phyisically forced
> into doing some things to the extent it became uncomfortable on a few
> occasions by my brother, but not much beyond that). As a kid I would curl
> up in a ball, later it was school, then high school (I did not achieve
> anything out of the ordinary, my grades were always a little below
> average, as I consider normal for me, but I did feel safe there), then
> when I got the job, I just sticked around at work all day (litterately),
> so that I didn't have to be around my family.
>

I think sometimes we mistake self confidence for 'stoic'. There is a subtle
difference but an important one. Stoic is where you are spending your whole
lifetime 'holding it together'; self confidence doesn't take that type of
energy :-)

Are you still living with your family or are you out on your own now?

>
>
> Well as far as my expectations go, my idea of the whole thing was that we
> stay friends like, forever. The reality however was that the moment I did
> something that wasn't in their explicit interest, I would be left without
> the said 'friends'.
>
> I would end up clinging desperately to whatever friends I ever had, doing
> everything within my power to keep them even with those extreemely few
> that weren't about to leave me anyway. It's a bit irrational and generally
> not good for my wallet, so I am wondering what to do about that one too.
>

I suspect that your description of what you expected of 'friendship'
actually is emeshing. In a real friendship each person can give of their
strengths when they can and overlook while being aware of their weaknesses.
Since we humans are not perfect there could not be a friendship based on the
illusion of perfection and that is what you describe. You are not alone in
that, many of us felt that way and some still do. It's similar to the myth
that when marrying one person compensates for the weakness of the other and
visa versa - hence making a 'whole'. In reality that is like buiding a
house on sand, it's not going to hold up because eventually one of the two
are going to become resentful :-).

I think the reality is that there are varying degrees of friendship, each
has it's place and can be strong in certain ways if both parties accept
their differences. My general rule of thumb puts people into certain
categories for lack of a better word:

stranger - people I may or may not see on the street and don't know,
although I may smile at them.

acquaintances: people who I might even see everyday in a work environment
or elsewhere. I may interact with them as a result of my business or
otherwise.

friendly acquaintance: a person I see several times a week, month, year and
have pleasant and cordial conversations with but do not seek out their
presence (or them me) for more structured social interactions.

friends: we enjoy each others company for varying types of things but not
necessarily every thing that one or the other might always do socially.
Some are lots of fun, others are who I might tell some of my more secret
thoughts to, some I may seek out because of mutual interests etc.

friend for live: these do not come along very often in ones lifetime. We
are fortunate if we can count five in our lifetime. Distance doesn't dispel
the closeness and mutual bond and they stay with us, I believe, eternally.

>
> The thing is that, he persists. He calls me all the time and doesn't
> listen to me... I started slamming the phone when I was starting to loose
> it over it eventually, so whenever somebody saw me slam the phone, they
> asked if it was my father that called me. That's another irrational
> solution to a problem, I've no idea what the right one is.
>

I imagine at some point you might be able to say something to the effect
of - this subject is going nowhere so we'll have to just agree to disagree.
I'm going to have to cut the phone call short because I'm in the middle of
something else right now.

> And then after a while I will begin to miss my dad and maybe he felt
> offended and *worry*worry*worry*worry* and I'll contact him in every way I
> can and then be his puppy for a few days. It makes him feel he really owns
> me and hey I like to be owned but still argh, wish we had the option to
> choose our parents sometimes. =P
>

Cutting the apron strings is never easy :-) You didn't mention how old you
were?

>
> Hmm I know it's his baggage, but ehrm. For example the situation, when
> something on his computer broke and he prevented me from leaving the room
> untill it was working right (and I didn't even brake the thing), I worked
> the whole day and then in the evening when he came home from somewhere he
&g