Abuse recovery - the last fly of the phoenix...

Author

the last fly of the phoenix...

phoenix8

2004-08-15, 11:08 am

i woke the phoenix up for a last fly...

she went away feeling hurt, lost to hide, heal and recover, getting the
necessary understandings. it is here that it happens. it is here that it
should be finished. i know now that another phoenix have been here before me
and that many have been troubled because of a suicide. this phoenix is doing
the opposite now, going to fly in the light, life and love. constructive,
not destructive.

many persons have been involved.
many levels have been concerned, mixted up..
it was hard to dismantel and understand.

but now today, the phoenix is back just for this, watch it standing in it
firing light and glory, opening his large wide wings before flying away.....
(hehe, sorry the picture was nice to paint :p ..)
this phoenix is going towards another place, a place with another name, a
name of value and life, a place of growing and love...
even if she stands alone, she isn't, other birds are on her side...

ok, let's go and tell what i have to say.

when i came to this place, it was because one person here was talking sense
to me: alan :D
really, alan, allow me to send you humbly all my love for always, you are a
gift !!!!
and i know you will recognise the energy

i saw how confused, angry people were and i thought i was not a part of
this. but i was wrong. many people here are ill, sufferings from different
kinds of illness. me included. my compassion has always allowed me to go
towards others and to care, it is something important for me. it is one of
the door
that i used as a choice in my life, one that makes me be who i am (and still
working on right now).
being a pacifist for me doesn't mean some kind of ideology, it comes from
the same ugliness, same violence, same abuses that many here have suffered.
to want peace instead of war, to want to make the choice of life instead of
death and destructions, to refuse to submit to any absurd abusive violent
deadly hierarchical power - be it patriarcal or matriarchal - it is my road,
my values. i have bleeded so much for them, i used my own blood to write my
words most of the time.....
but this is not for me a jail or a box, this is something very wide, open,
thinking universe as much inside as outside....

this is the gift of the 4 year old little girl on the floor covered with
blood, tears,
sperm, sweat, unable to move in another way than crawling on the floor, but
having the light of love in her heart, keeping it throught all this and for
so long.....
i learned from her also that she doesn't belive in love, she knows love.

i came not from a time of war but from a time after war, i saw and have it
imprinted in myself the damages that afterwar times carries together with
the reconstruction of a country who has been occupied, bombed, set free
throught so many deaths...
it is where i come from, my roots.
i have seen so many illnesses, physical, psychological, emotional and i
found it here so much of it. i felt again as that little girl on the floor
or on
the public place...
it has been hard.
and yet, when i searched for my mistakes this is what i founded:

alan for exemple, glently warned me in my talking to windy that i was
talking to her illness and making her illness grow. i could understand what
he was saying but somehow at some level, i was missing something and
couldn't put the finger on it....
i have met many of you here, i remember asking azure if that was the color
of her eyes that she was seeing in her mirror, because it was the picture
she was giving to me. i have seen her move and change so much here in that
past year, she definitively isn't the same person, she looks indeed like
someone who has opened doors and she seems to be those blue eyes....

windy, i was surprised because i have been talking at times before with her
and i couldn't get that from someone supportive, listening, she would behave
just and only as a block. i remember that my only gesture towards her when i
wanted to have my own words and expression, was to offer her a nice
confortable
armchair and some nice cookies of hers with one for bufford. i mean, this is
a person i didn't either wanted to hurt, but obviously my presence, my
values, my words were such a hurt for her.

i know understand better what alan said to me then: my mistake was in not
seeing what i was mirroring and that the person must be the one who decide
what she/he wants to have mirrored back because he/she is ready to see it.
i have learned that the illnesses of the others, as well as mine have to be
respected. it is the job of each person to take care of one illness and i
have for myself a duty of responsability and knowledge about my mirroring
to them. because in truth, this is what we are all for each others in such a
place and in life: mirrors....
but i know now that i have been such a mirror in a very special time and
place, i wasn't then aware of its controversiality and meanings..
i was coming from a long isolation period that a traumatic event throw me
into and i was just emerging. it is a fact, not an excuse.
one mistake that i surely did was to not aknowledge that for me i was
seeing each of the persons here much wider than what most were seeing
themselfs. i knew there was illness, i knew my own illness also but i forgot
who i was and where i came from and the impact i could have. at some point i
would even think that i even have been a mirror to myself... ah sweet
insanities

(note to self: wear sunglasses more often)

i know i am french, european, and most here are north americans, i know that
9/11 have been so hurtful, but i can see also the misplaced anger and the
misplaced "punishments".
how from defensive, one can become offensive....
i have seen it up from personal to cultural levels....
how the "vautours" of abusive power would plonged and used it throught lies
and manipulations also......

polly, ah polly is a smile in my heart and will remain such. of all here she
was the last person i would have wanted to hurt, she was hurting so much
already. i liked her and still does, i also heard her saying even after i
went away that she liked me and i believe her. polly is surely someone i
would stand for and in front because i know she stand for herself, someone i
could accept a real hug because she loves them and wog so well

i felt responsible for her pains for such a long time because i knew them
and i had share some with her, but today i know, i can't be responsible for
any persons pains at all. but what i surely would wish about polly would be
to be another kind of mirror, not one of pains, but one of joy, life, shared
creativity
width...
being able to me myself if that wouldn't be something which hurt or derange
simply because it is what she liked in me and she is able to see me.

from where i come from, i can understand the pains, the angers, the revolts.
strange enought that i am the only french bird around...
but i have other cultures, i think differently and i can be a mirror who
hurts. this i had to work about because it created some conflicts inside of
me and yet i know from experience that one person can't have all the
responsabilities of the mistakes, otherwise it is much more the scapegoat
and geeee, i haven't been in that role for such a long time and i am surely
not going to allow to be traped in it again..!!!!

there are many others here that i won't mention, not because i don't see
their values or/and illnesses; at the contrary, but because some also have
been manipulated, played on their illnesses as so many of us here....
aar finally is indeed a place to express illness. for sure, lots can be
learned.

now, i have to finish with the one who called the phoenix back.
i don't want him to put his illness and distortions on the new name, it is
way too precious for me - i mean the new name !!!

cal.

i have been a good friend for you during several years.
you haven't been a good friend to me.

we have walked together for some long periods and spended huge amount of
time talking to each others, some have been really good and i will never
denie or reject or cut it off me because in doing such i would cut something
of myself and i don't need to destroy anything to be able to simply exist.
but i know this is what you do and this is what you need: this is part of
your illness, i can see it now and i can respect it, it doesn't hurt me
anymore but it did at times. you can throw your insults, disdains,
authoritary and abusive power on me, it won't have any effect anymore
because i have learned that it is still part of your illness. you have
committed to it and i am not here anymore to be a mirror to you and i do not
wish to be such either.
but i won't either submit to this false power, i will talk my mind, stand on
my ground, express myself in public places wherever i want being in agrement
or disagrement to you, this has nothing to do with you anymore and imho you
should have a talk with your illness because i do not see any reason why i
should offer you some of my freedom anymore. of course, you might feel
unsafe now because during all those years, i have learned to know you quite
a lot. that's life, but you should really consider twice when you read me
and be very careful about what i am saying and not projecting that unsafety
feeling on me: it is yours to be assumed...

you said not that long ago that mistakes are in the past, sure they are, but
what is more important than mistakes are the choices of behaviors. you said
once that you dislke me: good. i can assure you that i dislike not you but
some of your behaviors. and this is no problem at all for me.

when you commit to your illness you use insults - be my guest, it only
mirror yourself now, not me anymore. you can't have any kind of correct
simple discussion with me or around me anymore - be my guest, i can. but do
not impose on me your own limitations.
your behavior this past year almost and even longer has taught me even more
about you. do i want to crash you with it? no, surely not and i have never
done it and still am not.
but once here i told you that you didn't fooled me and indeed you don't.
now, i am able to see clearly where your reactions comes from, i see when
there are actions, when there are reactions. you want to use your will power
on me? try it or continue to try, you are failing.
today that makes me smile and if you use your brains you will see why.

you disdain detachment, i don't. detachement for me is non-issue, is
balance, is also having felt each tear and each cut in my heart into the
recovery and found the inner peace. it means being able to move further
without
judging and without needing to turn back because i have left something
unsolved or without a tiny doubt in my head somewhere that this is going to
fall on me again with another form, another situation, another person.
detachement is being able to not need to do a step again anymore.

you have crossed my boundaries at many levels.
i have been too blinded with myself and my own illness to call you on this
then. i was only feeling that "something" was wrong....
and you were too "pleased to fed me with the old abusive excuse that it was
*my illness instead of facing and talking the issues correctly.
it is really hard when two ill persons are communicating isn't it??

but, you didn't had any right to come here and claim that i have been your
friend
for those last 4 years without my consent - and i don't mention the bestest
here much, now today this makes me smile and i see it as a joke, the kind
brits are very good with, a bit black humor somewhere;)

you define this place as:

" disdain is an appropriate and sufficient response to the dysfunctional
relating and personality disorders chronically evinced in this newsgroup. i
was addressing a new person who was startled, hurt, and offended by a
sampling of the stupid shit that goes on here all the time. i can't fix it,
i can't change it and i won't get involved with it. i haven't an iota of
sympathy for it, nor any goodwill
nor compassion for the people who do it. ergo, i disdain both it and them
as they choose to present themselves. i find this to be a satisfactory
attitude: functional, low-maintenance, and well adapted to the
circumstances. "

and yet, you are telling lies, you have involved yourself in its
dysfunctionalities and personality disorders very deeply. are you saying
with this that you have disdain for yourself ???
you have used the same illnesses than others, you have manipulated,
distorted, insulted, judge, condemned, showed your illness and inabilities
not less than the others here.
the problems with having big brains is that when they are disfunctional,
they
tend to be worst and more acute or visible than the others.

luna

i must have a few words about luna, not because she was one of the person
involved in that last "stupid shit" that you are talking about in this
quote.
but because i had to search who that person was.
you two sure put me into a very crazy situation, and it took me times to
even understand what was going because it was so far away from me.
(almost said so damn far away, gee, i have to be careful, soon i will use
the
f*** word too!! grins).

i saw luna around me at some points, i remember wondering, what did she
wants? i don't know her but my impression was of someone ill as the others
but who has done some work, showing obvious awareness of the own illness. i
respect that, but it was difficult to understand what was the problem.... i
even thought that she was trying to know me, but it wasn't it, that she was
willing to stand for someone else, but it wasn't either the point...
and it took me some times to get it.

now, this is important because so many manipulations have been done and many
have done their job at it. i must recognise it was a clever trap.
first of all, if cal wouldn't have transgressed my boundaries about claiming
this "friendship" in such a disfunctional place, luna/jean wouldn't have had
to worry about me at all. (well, actually there is something there, but it
is hers, not mine) and it is how it should have happen. you two managed to
put on me and involve me in something that was absolutely none of my
business.
i wasn't concerned by it, never should have been and you are the ones who
took me with you in that ride. i won't repeat again that it was your
illness, it become boring to me, but be honest. i really don't care a damn
about what could happen. nobody needed neither my knowledge, neither my
benediction, neither my agrement. i am living thousands of kms away with the
atlantic waters between us and i protest against you two for what you
did !!!!
clever trap indeed, you took my hand and play around with me, and when i
protested, oh but this is private stuff how could you? say the judgemental
shoked (spelling? sorry dunno) voices......
so private indeed that public places are just great for your "meat" talks.
it is bullshit, and manipulative and dishonest. you didn't wanted to have me
around you, best, i wasn't even intending to be around !!! you are the ones
who hold me around you, not me. that was not my place and i never considered
it such and for what i was concerned then you could be together for the rest
of your lives that i wouldn't be concerned one second about it, this has
nothing to do with me, and never will, i have my life else where and i sure
am not telling what i am doing in my private life around here !!!!!....
i know i am a fool, but i am surely not a jerk !!!!
and if one day, two persons wants to include me in some ways, i will be
aware, knowing, active and consentant. but i will never allow two "internet
ghosts" to play insane games with me and make me concern where i am not and
do not want to be.

but honestly i do find it strange that anyone couldn't simply push someone
else away saying: oh this is just some "online friend" and relativise at the
eyes of the other and position the reality correctly, surely not for someone
with such big brains and knowledge - something was and is really wrong in
that picture !!!

except maybe that the trap was much more yours cal, than mine....
you are the one who builded it, and you didn't managed to free yourself from
it.
you can play games around with me, invoque stupid passive aggressivity,
invoque my own illness and complains that you didn't betrayed, but i know it
isn't true...

imho, you have lost a lot in those stories.

you can sit on the top of your pyramide, of your power, but you have been
wrong, you have behaved in a wrong way, dishonest, manipulative,
inappropriate.
i don't come here to accused you, only i see how you are still angry,
frustated, scared. i remember you were complaining that you couldn't look at
yourself in the miror? now is the time when you can't, selfrighteous or self
justificating illusions do not stay for long.....
the betrayals are more your own betrayals towards yourself than towards me,
your rigidity will influence your life, not mine.....
you might refuse to hear what i am saying today and it is fine with me, you
might never hear my voice and get the understandings that goes with it. it
is your life, your path, your behaviors...

the last thing that i would want to evoque before making a point to this.
you seem to not understand that when a ribbon is cut with cissors, the cut
is done and the ribbon flies away. i am not here as a hunting ghost, i am
here closing the circle for myself, owning back what belongs to me,
centering myself again.

this is not a reaction, this is an action.

but you can continue reacting either with insults either with trying to set
some traps or use manipulations or express superiority or whatever, it is
only yours now, i do not belong anymore to it and no, i do not fight the
rejection, it is all yours and it will remain yours. but it doesn't
interfere with my own values, my self worth at all, this is some insanity of
yours where i do not accept to be taken hostage anymore. you can project
anything you wan, i know what is mine and what isn't.

but i want to adress only this last thing and i think that the phoenix will
be
able to take his bandages off and able to fly again with his new strenghts
towards new horizons, more healthy, more warm and more lighted....

quote from you yesterday:

authority is the power to exert one's will over another person's. there is
> no authority in pride and the rejection of one adult by another, beyond
the
> authority to keep one's own person safe, comfortable, unencumbered, and
free
> to feel and have opinions.
>

this makes me wonder what kind of threat that person could have really been?
what a huge power it must have represent to become such a danger !!! sound
quite irreel to me.

i dislike people exercising their power and will on others, this is for me
of the order of the unacceptable and abusive but human...
one moto and actually the name of the group for women who were raped in
a'dam and who gave me lots of support was: not against my will....

also, i do not need for my own safety, comfort, freedom and expressions to
use authority on others at all......
the fact that you need it shows only your own limitations and belongs only
to you, not the other persons......

and i will remain and quit on this question: it would be time for you to
consider what kind of huge power you imagined that i had.
obviously it was something important because otherwise you surely wouldn't
have felt so.

and now, i am flying away towards and with others who allow life and love
and do not value oppression and traps and false superiority with rigidity
and judgemental behaviors, using manipulations; dishonesty or cuts.
i consider and value life and freedom of expression and development, not
blocking.

we do not have the same values.

phoenix.

Luna

2004-08-15, 7:06 pm

"phoenix8" <ouroborosx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o15l2F5o8bcU1@uni-berlin.de...
<snip>

There are pit bulls with a gentler grip than you, honey.

Jean

cal

2004-08-16, 4:07 am

"phoenix8" <ouroborosx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o15l2F5o8bcU1@uni-berlin.de...
> we do not have the same values.

ok, bye

Luna

2004-08-16, 11:07 am

"gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:IJnTc.922$5L.611@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> Luna wrote:
>
>
> but of course -- and you?

mais oui. I find it hard to imagine anyone being otherwise.

Jean
>
>
>
>

azure

2004-08-16, 7:07 pm

:-(

i really dislike situations like this ...

azure

gardenia

2004-08-16, 7:07 pm

Luna wrote:
> "gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:1veTc.1748$2B.1494@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

>
> Pro stem cell research, Pat?

but of course -- and you?

>
> Jean

Watson

2004-08-18, 2:06 am

"gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:5WnTc.923$iK.676@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> Luna wrote:
>
> the problem is, i think, they don't read the science -- only listen to the
> political pundits and the clergy. none of them are against IVF, however,
> seem totally unaware that in vitro clinics routinely fertilized more eggs
> than they implant. the remainder are either disposed as medical waste,
left[vbcol=seagreen]
> to die then disposed of, or stored forever in liquid nitrogen.
>

Fear it's about red herrings & control.

Watson

Luna

2004-08-18, 7:06 am

|
| it was at the measure of what i felt and had to deal with.
| i had to make this stop, and i know you have let the grip lose some times
| ago.
| there is no intention to hurt.
| i have been searching for my peace.
|
| this is the result and i wish to move further thanks to it.

Anik,

I don't know if it's a language issue or what, but your incredibly long rambling
posts are bizarrely self indulgent and almost completely incoherent. It's all
about how open and "into healing" you are and how your motives are pure and how
everyone else is out there to get you. The word weirdo seems to have been
invented just for you.

Your sleep is so deep that I hesitate to wake you so let me just whisper into
your ear: you're an idiot.

(don't email me again, I'll just post it - what originates in the newsgroup
stays in the newsgroup, this is just common courtesy)

Jean

|
| anik
|

Luna

2004-08-18, 11:06 am

"kaitlyn" <kaitlyn@asarian-host.net> wrote in message
news:22eee0fa67cd.0a86a333fc2b4420b50f6@asarian-host.net...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> *yawn* Has she shut up yet?

20 freakin' k. I delete emails that are that big because I figure they carry a
viral load. Yikes!

Jean

gardenia

2004-08-19, 7:07 pm

Luna wrote:

> Whatever. <yawnarooni> The boy and I just finished watching Bad
> Santa and I highly recommend it.

I just finished watching "In America". The 2 little girls in the film are
remarkable.. don't know about Bad Santa, I'll have to think about that one..

in the meantime.. there's a family discussion in the works about stem
cells.. of course, my views are the opposite of the rest of them .. nothing
ever seems to change much..

>
> Jean

Luna

2004-08-19, 7:07 pm

"gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:1veTc.1748$2B.1494@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Luna wrote:
>
>
> I just finished watching "In America". The 2 little girls in the film are
> remarkable.. don't know about Bad Santa, I'll have to think about that one..

I loved In America.
>
> in the meantime.. there's a family discussion in the works about stem
> cells.. of course, my views are the opposite of the rest of them .. nothing
> ever seems to change much..

Pro stem cell research, Pat?

Jean
>
>
>
>

gardenia

2004-08-19, 7:07 pm

Luna wrote:
> "gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:1veTc.1748$2B.1494@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

>
> Pro stem cell research, Pat?

but of course -- and you?

>
> Jean

Luna

2004-08-19, 7:07 pm

gardenia

2004-08-19, 7:07 pm

Luna wrote:
> "gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:IJnTc.922$5L.611@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>
> mais oui. I find it hard to imagine anyone being otherwise.

the problem is, i think, they don't read the science -- only listen to the
political pundits and the clergy. none of them are against IVF, however,
seem totally unaware that in vitro clinics routinely fertilized more eggs
than they implant. the remainder are either disposed as medical waste, left
to die then disposed of, or stored forever in liquid nitrogen.

[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Jean

Luna

2004-08-19, 7:07 pm

"gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:5WnTc.923$iK.676@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> Luna wrote:
>
> the problem is, i think, they don't read the science -- only listen to the
> political pundits and the clergy. none of them are against IVF, however,
> seem totally unaware that in vitro clinics routinely fertilized more eggs
> than they implant. the remainder are either disposed as medical waste, left
> to die then disposed of, or stored forever in liquid nitrogen.

So what gives with your family? Are they super religious zealot types?

Jean

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

gardenia

2004-08-19, 10:06 pm

Watson wrote:
> "gardenia" <patgaz@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:5WnTc.923$iK.676@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Fear it's about red herrings & control.

I keep sending them propaganda from the NIH, AAAS & ISSCR..

>
> Watson

Luna

2004-08-20, 2:06 am

"azure" <ladybluex1212@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o5a1aF71f9kU1@uni-berlin.de...
> "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2o569kF72cqfU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> that's part of what sucks about it. it's not as simple as that.
>
>
> i shouldn't have opened my mouth. it couldn't help but come across that
> way.

It wasn't your post that did that, it was whatshername's. It doesn't matter
though, I'm certain no feelings were hurt in the reading of that particular post
by anyone.
>
>
> i miss the days when i could brandish my flamethrower with glee because the
> one i aimed it at, "needed killin'."

haha! That's a unique way to put it.
>
> nowadays i see this place as almost a ghost town, and can't help but wonder
> if i contributed to that. a sobering and somber thought. there are so many
> people here that i miss, because they aren't here anymore.

Yeah...it's a pretty dead group nowadays. I guess people just got sick of the
bullshit and moved on.

Jean
>
> azure
>
>
>

SpiritQuest

2004-08-20, 7:06 am

"kaitlyn" <kaitlyn@asarian-host.net> wrote in message
news:22eee0fa67cd.0a86a333fc2b4420b50f6@asarian-host.net...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> *yawn* Has she shut up yet?
>
A good argument that even the *last* fly should remain zipped

}

SpiritQuest
shoo fly

}

Baba Yaga

2004-08-22, 7:07 pm

"phoenix8" <ouroborosx@hotmail.com> wrote, in alt.abuse.recovery:

>but now today, the phoenix is back just for this, watch it standing in it
>firing light and glory, opening his large wide wings before flying away.....
>(hehe, sorry the picture was nice to paint :p ..)

It's a splendid picture.

>this phoenix is going towards another place, a place with another name, a
>name of value and life, a place of growing and love...
>even if she stands alone, she isn't, other birds are on her side...

[...]

>i saw how confused, angry people were and i thought i was not a part of
>this. but i was wrong. many people here are ill, sufferings from different
>kinds of illness. me included.

Well recognised. That was maybe one thing worth coming here for.

I hope posting this did for you what you needed.

Baba Yaga
--
/We/ are the veil that veils us from our self.
- R.D. Laing

Baba Yaga

2004-08-25, 11:16 am