Abuse recovery - Reacting when something isn't actually abusive

Author

Reacting when something isn't actually abusive

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 12:19 pm

How do I stop?

I have this thing I do, where I 'shut down' all my emotions related to a
person or situation when I sense pain in the immediate future, and it's
really not a good thing - it means I end up treating people like I don't
care about them, which is decidedly *not* the case.

It's happened again, and I don't think this particular relationship can
be salvaged.

And, of course, to top it all off, the other person suggested I work on
a couple of things in counselling.

I'm in counselling, if you recall, because I realized I was emotionally
abused as a child and, later, as an adult, as well. I've had two
sessions so far. As a result of the abuse I suffered, I have a lot of
unhealthy coping mechanisms - the above being one of them. I want to
become a healthy, whole person, and I do *not* want to become an
emotional abuser.

I have issues with trust, intimacy, and relationships. These will all
be dealt with at some point, I am sure.

But the person I'm talking about said that I should work on my intimacy
issues, and my inability to connect with people, and stuff like that, in
counselling. I reacted as if it were abusive to tell me to do that. I
don't think it was meant to be abusive, but I do think this is one of my
boundaries, at least right now.

Is it wrong to feel that nobody should be allowed to tell me what I
ought to be doing in counselling? It's something I'm doing for *me*,
and *I'm* the one who has to live with myself in the end, so why do
other people have to stick their noses in and tell me what to do?

It feels like I'm being told, again, that I'm not good enough as I am,
so I should try to change.

I'm already trying to change, can't that be good enough?

*sigh*

We're definitely breaking up this week.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Laura Moross

2004-08-03, 12:19 pm

Hi Janna, I hope some of what I say helps. I'm wishing the best for you.

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2n8lvgFtst3mU1@uni-berlin.de...
> How do I stop?
>
> I have this thing I do, where I 'shut down' all my emotions related to a
> person or situation when I sense pain in the immediate future, and it's
> really not a good thing - it means I end up treating people like I don't
> care about them, which is decidedly *not* the case.

There may be a reason for you doing this. If you are sensing pain in the
future, maybe your gut is trying to tell you something that you don't want
to know. You're angry about something, but you are not allowing yourself to
see what it is. In the meantime anger is very hard to conceal and he's
probably sensing it. Maybe journalling can help you figure out what it is.
Maybe it's a whole bunch of little things about him that have angered you,
maybe he's not really good for you at this time and you don't want to face
that, or maybe he's not meeting some need that you have and you need to
identify that need(s) and figure out if it is realistic to expect him to
meet that need.

> It's happened again, and I don't think this particular relationship can
> be salvaged.
>
> And, of course, to top it all off, the other person suggested I work on
> a couple of things in counselling.

This may be true, but in all likelihood he is not perfect either. Is he
facing his part in any problems you, as a couple, are having?

> I'm in counselling, if you recall, because I realized I was emotionally
> abused as a child and, later, as an adult, as well. I've had two
> sessions so far. As a result of the abuse I suffered, I have a lot of
> unhealthy coping mechanisms - the above being one of them. I want to
> become a healthy, whole person, and I do *not* want to become an
> emotional abuser.
>
> I have issues with trust, intimacy, and relationships. These will all
> be dealt with at some point, I am sure.
>
> But the person I'm talking about said that I should work on my intimacy
> issues, and my inability to connect with people, and stuff like that, in
> counselling. I reacted as if it were abusive to tell me to do that. I
> don't think it was meant to be abusive, but I do think this is one of my
> boundaries, at least right now.

If he is not taking responsibility for his part of the problems it would
only be natural that you would get angry at this suggestion.
Now it becomes an issue of how you deal with your anger toward him for
telling you this. An outburst will only add more negatives into the
situation, and possibly cause irreparable harm. Try to take a few deep
breathes. If all you can say is "I will think about what you said" or "I
can't talk about this right now", say that and end the conversation.

>
> Is it wrong to feel that nobody should be allowed to tell me what I
> ought to be doing in counselling? It's something I'm doing for *me*,
> and *I'm* the one who has to live with myself in the end, so why do
> other people have to stick their noses in and tell me what to do?

No, it is not wrong at all to feel like that. Hang in there.

Laura

James

2004-08-03, 12:19 pm

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:26:29 -0600, Janna Hoskin
<musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
<2n8lvgFtst3mU1@uni-berlin.de> the following:

>How do I stop?
>
>I have this thing I do, where I 'shut down' all my emotions related to a
>person or situation when I sense pain in the immediate future, and it's
>really not a good thing - it means I end up treating people like I don't
>care about them, which is decidedly *not* the case.
>
>It's happened again, and I don't think this particular relationship can
>be salvaged.
>
>And, of course, to top it all off, the other person suggested I work on
>a couple of things in counselling.
>
>I'm in counselling, if you recall, because I realized I was emotionally
>abused as a child and, later, as an adult, as well. I've had two
>sessions so far. As a result of the abuse I suffered, I have a lot of
>unhealthy coping mechanisms - the above being one of them. I want to
>become a healthy, whole person, and I do *not* want to become an
>emotional abuser.
>
>I have issues with trust, intimacy, and relationships. These will all
>be dealt with at some point, I am sure.
>
>But the person I'm talking about said that I should work on my intimacy
>issues, and my inability to connect with people, and stuff like that, in
>counselling. I reacted as if it were abusive to tell me to do that. I
>don't think it was meant to be abusive, but I do think this is one of my
>boundaries, at least right now.
>
I wonder why you are so protective of and defensive about
what you call "unhealthy coping mechanisms".

>Is it wrong to feel that nobody should be allowed to tell me what I
>ought to be doing in counselling? It's something I'm doing for *me*,
>and *I'm* the one who has to live with myself in the end, so why do
>other people have to stick their noses in and tell me what to do?
>
Perhaps it's something as simple as love, and the caring
that grows from that love. It most generally is in my
experience... not always, mind you... but much more often
than not.

>It feels like I'm being told, again, that I'm not good enough as I am,
>so I should try to change.
>
Often the only difference between "go girl, you can do it"
and "you're not good enough" is in the perception.

>I'm already trying to change, can't that be good enough?
>
>*sigh*
>
>We're definitely breaking up this week.
>
I hope not... whether you mean yourself, or the two of you
as a couple.

>-Janna

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 12:19 pm

James wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:26:29 -0600, Janna Hoskin
> <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> <2n8lvgFtst3mU1@uni-berlin.de> the following:
>
>
>
> I wonder why you are so protective of and defensive about
> what you call "unhealthy coping mechanisms".
>

Another unhealthy coping mechanism? They've "worked" for me for an
awfully long time. Not something that will change anytime soon.

>
>
> Perhaps it's something as simple as love, and the caring
> that grows from that love. It most generally is in my
> experience... not always, mind you... but much more often
> than not.
>

"Maybe we should take a break while you work on..." (insert list of
things that bother him) Maybe it comes from love, but it doesn't *feel*
loving. Not from him. From my best friend, it might be okay, but
likely only if I asked her opinion about what I should work on in
counselling. My Mom doesn't even tell me what to do in counselling, she
just says she's glad I'm going and she asks me how I'm doing and stuff.

>
>
> Often the only difference between "go girl, you can do it"
> and "you're not good enough" is in the perception.
>

(See above) That's different, qualitatively, from the response of "I
fully support you in going to counselling, if that's what you feel you
need to do" that I got when I initially *said* I wantd to get counselling.

>
>
> I hope not... whether you mean yourself, or the two of you
> as a couple.

The two of us as a couple.

After what I said last week, and how I currently feel about things, I
don't think it's a good idea to be together right now. He probably is
incredibly hurt and angry, anyway.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 12:19 pm

Laura Moross wrote:

> Hi Janna, I hope some of what I say helps. I'm wishing the best for you.
>
> "Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:2n8lvgFtst3mU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>
>
> There may be a reason for you doing this. If you are sensing pain in the
> future, maybe your gut is trying to tell you something that you don't want
> to know. You're angry about something, but you are not allowing yourself to
> see what it is. In the meantime anger is very hard to conceal and he's
> probably sensing it. Maybe journalling can help you figure out what it is.
> Maybe it's a whole bunch of little things about him that have angered you,
> maybe he's not really good for you at this time and you don't want to face
> that, or maybe he's not meeting some need that you have and you need to
> identify that need(s) and figure out if it is realistic to expect him to
> meet that need.
>

I know exactly why I shut down this time. I didn't know I'd done it
until a week later, though, which isn't good.

>
>
>
> This may be true, but in all likelihood he is not perfect either. Is he
> facing his part in any problems you, as a couple, are having?
>

I have no idea. Everything he said was framed as something *I* need to
work on, in counselling. And maybe we should stop seeing each other
while I'm working on it.

>
>
>
> If he is not taking responsibility for his part of the problems it would
> only be natural that you would get angry at this suggestion.
> Now it becomes an issue of how you deal with your anger toward him for
> telling you this. An outburst will only add more negatives into the
> situation, and possibly cause irreparable harm. Try to take a few deep
> breathes. If all you can say is "I will think about what you said" or "I
> can't talk about this right now", say that and end the conversation.
>

I almost never do the exploding thing anymore, luckily. I wound up
telling him that right now, I could 'take him or leave him', though. Of
course, I didn't actually say those words - he asked me if that was the
case, and I agreed.

>
>
>
> No, it is not wrong at all to feel like that. Hang in there.

Thanks.

We'll see what happens this week.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

astri

2004-08-03, 12:19 pm

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Janna Hoskin wrote:

>Laura Moross wrote:
>
>
>I have no idea. Everything he said was framed as something *I* need to
>work on, in counselling. And maybe we should stop seeing each other
>while I'm working on it.

well, that certainly sounds like he's making you the scapegoat for whatever
problems you two might have, just because you've recognized a need for
self-betterment in counseling. i think you're right. i think this would
become a pattern, and it would be a miserable relationship. what i think
you should do with what he said is see if any parts of it are things you
think you would benefit from working on, and then do that for yourself.
[vbcol=seagreen]

was it abusive? dunno. probably depends on *how* it was done. but it was
certainly indicative of someone who is placing the blame for any
relationship problems in your lap, whether or not they actually belong
there. not a positive sign.

-- astri

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 6:34 pm

astri wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Janna Hoskin wrote:
>
>
>
>
> well, that certainly sounds like he's making you the scapegoat for whatever
> problems you two might have, just because you've recognized a need for
> self-betterment in counseling. i think you're right. i think this would
> become a pattern, and it would be a miserable relationship. what i think
> you should do with what he said is see if any parts of it are things you
> think you would benefit from working on, and then do that for yourself.
>

Some of the things definitely are... like being able to connect with
people. I'd like to do that better. But you know what? I said thank
you when he gave me gifts. He wanted me to be really excited - I don't
*get* really excited about much of anything, and I never have... and I
don't think that's something I care about changing. And then the issues
I have about intimacy are problems I know I have - we'll get to them in
counselling anyway.

>
>
>
> was it abusive? dunno. probably depends on *how* it was done. but it was
> certainly indicative of someone who is placing the blame for any
> relationship problems in your lap, whether or not they actually belong
> there. not a positive sign.

I don't even think there are any real relationship problems, except that
he's not accepting me.

I e-mailed him over the weekend to say that I'd shut down and didn't
realize it until now. He called me this morning while I was at work and
wants me to go over there today. I don't want to go, but I think I'd
better - this way it'll be all done and over with *sooner* rather than
later. The stress is really affecting me in a negative way.

Which brings up another topic, but I'll post about that later, once this
current mess is sorted out.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Dragonlady

2004-08-03, 6:34 pm

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2n9nrsFuatovU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Laura Moross wrote:
>
you.[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
want[vbcol=seagreen]
yourself to[vbcol=seagreen]
is.[vbcol=seagreen]
you,[vbcol=seagreen]
face[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I know exactly why I shut down this time. I didn't know I'd done it
> until a week later, though, which isn't good.

It takes time to recognize these things, and the fact that you know at all
is progress over not knowing why you did something.

>
> I have no idea. Everything he said was framed as something *I* need to
> work on, in counselling. And maybe we should stop seeing each other
> while I'm working on it.

Which is, in all liklihood, why you are reacting as you are. Do you feel
like you're being treated as if you are not competent to figure these things
out for yourself?

However, the fact that he said maybe you should stop seeing each other while
you're working on it bothers me, also. The reason it bothers me is because
it sounds suspiciously like he wants to break up, but he wants you to take
the blame.

"I[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I almost never do the exploding thing anymore, luckily. I wound up
> telling him that right now, I could 'take him or leave him', though. Of
> course, I didn't actually say those words - he asked me if that was the
> case, and I agreed.

I don't know about you, but it always pisses me off when someone else puts
words in my mouth. Sometimes I will agree or disagree just because I am
pissed off. I call it "cutting off my nose to spite my face" because the
goal isn't to communcate, it's to hurt someone as I feel I have been hurt.

>
> Thanks.
>
> We'll see what happens this week.

Good luck with whatever happens.

Dragon

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 6:34 pm

Dragonlady wrote:
> "Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:2n9nrsFuatovU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> you.
>
>
> the
>
>
> want
>
>
> yourself to
>
>
> is.
>
>
> you,
>
>
> face
>
>
>
> It takes time to recognize these things, and the fact that you know at all
> is progress over not knowing why you did something.
>

It doesn't really feel like progress, which sucks.

>
>
>
> Which is, in all liklihood, why you are reacting as you are. Do you feel
> like you're being treated as if you are not competent to figure these things
> out for yourself?
>

Not completely. I do feel sometimes like we aren't a good match, simply
because I'm more interested in a lot of pop culture type things that he
isn't. I mean, I like literature and classical music, but when it comes
right down to it, I prefer reading current science fiction and listening
to pop or rock and watching stupid kids' shows on TV.

>
> However, the fact that he said maybe you should stop seeing each other while
> you're working on it bothers me, also. The reason it bothers me is because
> it sounds suspiciously like he wants to break up, but he wants you to take
> the blame.
>

Which is weird. I was thinking about breaking up with him anyway, long
before he ever said anything of the sort.

>
>
> "I
>
>
>
> I don't know about you, but it always pisses me off when someone else puts
> words in my mouth. Sometimes I will agree or disagree just because I am
> pissed off. I call it "cutting off my nose to spite my face" because the
> goal isn't to communcate, it's to hurt someone as I feel I have been hurt.
>

Yeah, I do that, too. I think it's actually a normal reaction!

>
>
>
> Good luck with whatever happens.
>

Thanks.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Luna

2004-08-03, 6:34 pm

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2n8lvgFtst3mU1@uni-berlin.de...
> How do I stop?

You make a decision to stop and then try really hard to be totally conscious.

>
> I have this thing I do, where I 'shut down' all my emotions related to a
> person or situation when I sense pain in the immediate future, and it's
> really not a good thing - it means I end up treating people like I don't
> care about them, which is decidedly *not* the case.

But the proof is in the pudding, so to speak - so if you treat people that way
why wouldn't they see it that way?

> It's happened again, and I don't think this particular relationship can
> be salvaged.

Oh well, maybe it's for the best then.
>
> And, of course, to top it all off, the other person suggested I work on
> a couple of things in counselling.

I would spit on someone who said that to me.
>
> I'm in counselling, if you recall, because I realized I was emotionally
> abused as a child and, later, as an adult, as well. I've had two
> sessions so far. As a result of the abuse I suffered, I have a lot of
> unhealthy coping mechanisms - the above being one of them. I want to
> become a healthy, whole person, and I do *not* want to become an
> emotional abuser.
>
> I have issues with trust, intimacy, and relationships. These will all
> be dealt with at some point, I am sure.

Those are issues almost everyone has and the "eventually" solution is what
everyone says.

>
> But the person I'm talking about said that I should work on my intimacy
> issues, and my inability to connect with people, and stuff like that, in
> counselling. I reacted as if it were abusive to tell me to do that. I
> don't think it was meant to be abusive, but I do think this is one of my
> boundaries, at least right now.
>
> Is it wrong to feel that nobody should be allowed to tell me what I
> ought to be doing in counselling? It's something I'm doing for *me*,
> and *I'm* the one who has to live with myself in the end, so why do
> other people have to stick their noses in and tell me what to do?
>
> It feels like I'm being told, again, that I'm not good enough as I am,
> so I should try to change.

Nothing wrong with trying to change.

>
> I'm already trying to change, can't that be good enough?

Think of the wifebeater saying that - isn't the answer, "No!"? It's not enough
to say you want to change. Change is in the doing and it's seldom found within
the saying.

>
> *sigh*
>
> We're definitely breaking up this week.

Oh well.

Jean
>
> -Janna
> --
> ***************************************************************************
> "Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
> President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
> "Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
> and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
> "Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
> passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
> "Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
> to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
> Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
> http://geocities.com/janna_louise
> ***************************************************************************

Naomi

2004-08-03, 6:34 pm

while it's true that no one can tell you what you need to work on in counselling, helpful suggestions might be a good thing. you can thank them for their input and go on with life. you'll get there when you get there. that's what i did.

i never saw my issues in the same way that other people did. they might've thought that i was ready to work on a particular issue, but i knew there were under issues that needed to be addressed...ie/ it's hard to work on relationship and intimacy issues
when the basic trust issue is left to moulder.

if this person is trying to control your therapy then yes, you're better off without them. if they're trying to be helpful then perhaps steering them into places they can help, like practicing new coping skills with you might be helpful.

naomi

Janna Hoskin wrote:
> How do I stop?
>
> I have this thing I do, where I 'shut down' all my emotions related to a
> person or situation when I sense pain in the immediate future, and it's
> really not a good thing - it means I end up treating people like I don't
> care about them, which is decidedly *not* the case.
>
> It's happened again, and I don't think this particular relationship can
> be salvaged.
>
> And, of course, to top it all off, the other person suggested I work on
> a couple of things in counselling.
>
> I'm in counselling, if you recall, because I realized I was emotionally
> abused as a child and, later, as an adult, as well. I've had two
> sessions so far. As a result of the abuse I suffered, I have a lot of
> unhealthy coping mechanisms - the above being one of them. I want to
> become a healthy, whole person, and I do *not* want to become an
> emotional abuser.
>
> I have issues with trust, intimacy, and relationships. These will all
> be dealt with at some point, I am sure.
>
> But the person I'm talking about said that I should work on my intimacy
> issues, and my inability to connect with people, and stuff like that, in
> counselling. I reacted as if it were abusive to tell me to do that. I
> don't think it was meant to be abusive, but I do think this is one of my
> boundaries, at least right now.
>
> Is it wrong to feel that nobody should be allowed to tell me what I
> ought to be doing in counselling? It's something I'm doing for *me*,
> and *I'm* the one who has to live with myself in the end, so why do
> other people have to stick their noses in and tell me what to do?
>
> It feels like I'm being told, again, that I'm not good enough as I am,
> so I should try to change.
>
> I'm already trying to change, can't that be good enough?
>
> *sigh*
>
> We're definitely breaking up this week.
>
> -Janna

--
ÐÏà¡±á

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 10:43 pm

Luna wrote:

> "Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:2n8lvgFtst3mU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>
>
> You make a decision to stop and then try really hard to be totally conscious.
>

I think I can do that...

>
>
>
> But the proof is in the pudding, so to speak - so if you treat people that way
> why wouldn't they see it that way?
>

That's why I warn people if I realize what's happening before it
happens. Sometimes it sneaks up on me.

>
>
>
>
> Oh well, maybe it's for the best then.
>

Yeah. I think it is.

>
>
> I would spit on someone who said that to me.
>
>
>
> Those are issues almost everyone has and the "eventually" solution is what
> everyone says.
>

Does it ever get better, then? I mean, if everyone...

>
>
>
> Nothing wrong with trying to change.
>

Never said there was.

>
>
>
> Think of the wifebeater saying that - isn't the answer, "No!"? It's not enough
> to say you want to change. Change is in the doing and it's seldom found within
> the saying.
>

Yes, I want to change. I'm also doing something about it.

>
>
>
>
> Oh well.
>

Just got off the phone with him. Meeting tomorrow to exchange the stuff
we have of each other's.

It seems like he thinks I'm doing this for fun or something. I'm not.

I *told* him... I don't want to, but it seems like the smart thing to do
right now.

*sigh*

I just don't like hurting people I care about.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 10:43 pm

Naomi wrote:

> while it's true that no one can tell you what you need to work on in
> counselling, helpful suggestions might be a good thing. you can thank
> them for their input and go on with life. you'll get there when you get
> there. that's what i did.

I will get there when I get there. It was the suggestion that perhaps
we should put the relationship on hold while I worked on those things
that made it feel more like criticism than helpful suggestions.

> i never saw my issues in the same way that other people did. they
> might've thought that i was ready to work on a particular issue, but i
> knew there were under issues that needed to be addressed...ie/ it's hard
> to work on relationship and intimacy issues when the basic trust issue
> is left to moulder.

*nodnod*

> if this person is trying to control your therapy then yes, you're better
> off without them. if they're trying to be helpful then perhaps steering
> them into places they can help, like practicing new coping skills with
> you might be helpful.

I don't think that's going to happen.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Luna

2004-08-03, 10:43 pm

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2nalq0Futpl1U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Luna wrote:
>
conscious.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I think I can do that...

But of course you can, cuz you're strong. Girlz are strong.

>
way[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That's why I warn people if I realize what's happening before it
> happens. Sometimes it sneaks up on me.
>
>
> Yeah. I think it is.

I hate it when that happens but it's usually "for the best", eh?
>
>
> Does it ever get better, then? I mean, if everyone...
>
>
> Never said there was.
>
enough[vbcol=seagreen]
within[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yes, I want to change. I'm also doing something about it.
>
>
> Just got off the phone with him. Meeting tomorrow to exchange the stuff
> we have of each other's.
>
> It seems like he thinks I'm doing this for fun or something. I'm not.
>
> I *told* him... I don't want to, but it seems like the smart thing to do
> right now.
>
> *sigh*
>
> I just don't like hurting people I care about.

No, that's the worst. I've always said, oh god over and over, it's not the
hurts done to me but the hurts i've done to others that have caused me the
greatest pain.

"It may be that women are kinda wired for nurturing invested in evolution. We
believe in change".

A friend of mine said that to me, just tonite. She's this amazing woman, but
anyways..

Janna. Be ruthless about who you need in your life. Nobody else will be and
those you cut away will survive, it's their job to do so.

Don't be soft on yourself and don't be soft on others. It's the best way.
Demand high standards. Be unaccepting of pathology. Don't buy the abuse self
help book shit. You are amazing in every way (oh aren't we all, natch?) , you
should expect that you will be. Which doesn't mean you won't have screaming at
the moon nights. I do.

Be very wary of the whole "abused" psychopathology. We've all been abused. You
can have a good life if you want it.

Ditch dude. Get better suited dude. Avoid therapy for years about past dude.
Eyes placed in front of head for a reason. Good luck, Janna.

Jean

> -Janna
> --
> ***************************************************************************
> "Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
> President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
> "Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
> and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
> "Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
> passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
> "Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
> to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
> Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
> http://geocities.com/janna_louise
> ***************************************************************************

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-03, 10:43 pm

*snippage of past posts because we aren't talking about that stuff anymore*

Luna wrote:

> "Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:2nalq0Futpl1U1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> conscious.
>
>
>
> But of course you can, cuz you're strong. Girlz are strong.
>

That I am. Very strong. Always have been, always will be. Physically,
mentally, and emotionally.

Though sometimes I just want to be weak emotionally and let someone else
take over for a bit.

>
>
> I hate it when that happens but it's usually "for the best", eh?
>

Yeah, that's for sure. :P

>
>
> No, that's the worst. I've always said, oh god over and over, it's not the
> hurts done to me but the hurts i've done to others that have caused me the
> greatest pain.

*nodnod*

I realized tonight, on my way home from my brother's place (he looked
after my guinea pig this weekend while I was away in Vancouver - BC),
that this doesn't hurt as much as when I moved from Calgary to Thunder
Bay. I wasn't even terminating any relationships at that time - I
remained friends with everyone and still have all of those same
friendships now, five years later. But I *was* leaving behind SOMEONE
very dear. Of course, he did not and does not consider me girlfriend
material, but we are quite close all the same.

> "It may be that women are kinda wired for nurturing invested in evolution. We
> believe in change".
>
> A friend of mine said that to me, just tonite. She's this amazing woman, but
> anyways..

I like that.

> Janna. Be ruthless about who you need in your life. Nobody else will be and
> those you cut away will survive, it's their job to do so.
>
> Don't be soft on yourself and don't be soft on others. It's the best way.
> Demand high standards. Be unaccepting of pathology. Don't buy the abuse self
> help book shit. You are amazing in every way (oh aren't we all, natch?) , you
> should expect that you will be. Which doesn't mean you won't have screaming at
> the moon nights. I do.
>
> Be very wary of the whole "abused" psychopathology. We've all been abused. You
> can have a good life if you want it.

I want a good life. I will have one, I think. I was talking to a
friend earlier tonight, and I said that I'm not one of those girls who
"needs" a man in her life. She commented that I do well on my own, and
I do. I'm not ruling out the possibility of someday actually getting
married, but I know I don't *need* to be married to have everything I
want out of life. The ex (I suppose I can call him that now) commented
that I have a very lonely existence, but it's not. Occasionally, sure,
I get lonely... but I have friends, I havea guinea pig, I have a fish,
and I have a pretty large family when it comes right down to it. I'm
solitary but not *alone*. (And when I *want* to be alone, it's easy to do.)

> Ditch dude. Get better suited dude. Avoid therapy for years about past dude.
> Eyes placed in front of head for a reason. Good luck, Janna.

Dude has been ditched (returning items tomorrow). Better suited dude
really doesn't want a romantic relationship with me. Will mention
breakup at counselling next week, but won't let it be analyzed. Looking
towards the future with excitement!

Thanks for making me smile with that last paragraph, by the way.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

astri

2004-08-04, 9:26 am

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Janna Hoskin wrote:

>I don't even think there are any real relationship problems, except that
>he's not accepting me.

but he had a list of things you need to change? or was i reading that
wrong? i'd suggest that if he had a list of things he thinks you need to
change, then there might be a relationship problem somewhere.

-- astri

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-04, 3:29 pm

astri wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Janna Hoskin wrote:
>
>
>
>
> but he had a list of things you need to change? or was i reading that
> wrong? i'd suggest that if he had a list of things he thinks you need to
> change, then there might be a relationship problem somewhere.
>
> -- astri

What *is* a relationship problem?

Maybe I don't know.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Dragonlady

2004-08-04, 6:37 pm

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2nai8mFukofaU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Dragonlady wrote:
a[vbcol=seagreen]
it's[vbcol=seagreen]
don't[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
all[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> It doesn't really feel like progress, which sucks.

I know. It feels more like a step backwards, because for the first time
you're actually recognizing disfunctional behaviors for what they are. But
it really is progress. It's the first step on the road to changing those
behaviors.

>
can[vbcol=seagreen]
on[vbcol=seagreen]
he[vbcol=seagreen]
feel[vbcol=seagreen]
things[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Not completely. I do feel sometimes like we aren't a good match, simply
> because I'm more interested in a lot of pop culture type things that he
> isn't. I mean, I like literature and classical music, but when it comes
> right down to it, I prefer reading current science fiction and listening
> to pop or rock and watching stupid kids' shows on TV.
>
OMG! I wish you lived here! I read current science fiction/fantasy and
love to watch stupid kids' shows on TV! My husband thinks I'm a nut, I'm
sure, but he never says anything, he just doesn't what the same shows I do!
Only I prefer country, and he's the one that likes rock!

It is difficult to maintain a relationship if you don't have something in
common though. I like rock, I just prefer country. I also like his TV
shows, I just prefer mine. Opposites may attract, but that's not much to
maintain a relationship on.

while[vbcol=seagreen]
because[vbcol=seagreen]
take[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Which is weird. I was thinking about breaking up with him anyway, long
> before he ever said anything of the sort.

Then maybe you need to look at it from that point of view. What's best for
you right now. Breaking up is painful, but sometimes it's necessary.

emotionally[vbcol=seagreen]
intimacy[vbcol=seagreen]
in[vbcol=seagreen]
I[vbcol=seagreen]
my[vbcol=seagreen]
would[vbcol=seagreen]
puts[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
hurt.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yeah, I do that, too. I think it's actually a normal reaction!
>
Heh. I think a lot depends on how you were raised. I was raised by people
who did exactly that, and I picked it up from them. It's a really hard
habit to unlearn, especially when it's that ingrained.

>
> Thanks.

Hope things went well.

Dragon

Luna

2004-08-04, 9:08 pm

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2naukdFupm8kU1@uni-berlin.de...
> *snippage of past posts because we aren't talking about that stuff anymore*
>
> Luna wrote:
>

Oh yes, you most certainly can![vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That I am. Very strong. Always have been, always will be. Physically,
> mentally, and emotionally.
>
> Though sometimes I just want to be weak emotionally and let someone else
> take over for a bit.

Ahhh the allure of returning to an infantile state. Symbosis. I get those
pulls too.
<snip>

>
> Yeah, that's for sure. :P

Being alone, "one", used to really terrify me. It no longer does, I'm not quite
sure what happened.
<snip>
>
> *nodnod*
>
> I realized tonight, on my way home from my brother's place (he looked
> after my guinea pig this weekend while I was away in Vancouver - BC),

Ack! A fellow Canuck? I just got back from a family vacation with my girl -
sister in Calgary, vacationed in Fairmont (what a freaking paradise that place
is)
and then headed out to see my parents on the Island. God I love BC. Now I'm
sweltering here in Ottawa.

> that this doesn't hurt as much as when I moved from Calgary to Thunder
> Bay. I wasn't even terminating any relationships at that time - I
> remained friends with everyone and still have all of those same
> friendships now, five years later. But I *was* leaving behind SOMEONE
> very dear. Of course, he did not and does not consider me girlfriend
> material, but we are quite close all the same.

Friends are good.
>
We[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I like that.

I like it too. You'd like the author of that little gem, she's a writer who
essentially
does motivational speeches. She's articulate like no one I've ever met before.

>
and[vbcol=seagreen]
self[vbcol=seagreen]
you[vbcol=seagreen]
at[vbcol=seagreen]
You[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I want a good life. I will have one, I think. I was talking to a
> friend earlier tonight, and I said that I'm not one of those girls who
> "needs" a man in her life. She commented that I do well on my own, and
> I do. I'm not ruling out the possibility of someday actually getting
> married, but I know I don't *need* to be married to have everything I
> want out of life. The ex (I suppose I can call him that now) commented
> that I have a very lonely existence, but it's not. Occasionally, sure,
> I get lonely... but I have friends, I havea guinea pig, I have a fish,
> and I have a pretty large family when it comes right down to it. I'm
> solitary but not *alone*. (And when I *want* to be alone, it's easy to do.)

I could've written that. I've got a dog, a cat and her kitten. I've got three
amazing children who are on the verge of adult life..I've got a terrific family
and cable tv. A job I love and my cupboards are full. I'm "alone" but I don't
often feel that lonely. Part of me was damaged by past abusive relationships
and
it seems to have destroyed my truster.

Not sure if my single status is
pathology
or just plain common sense, god knows I've had my opportunities to change it and
just decided, nah.

I suspect you're younger than I am (me, early 40's, stressin' on the EARLY
dammit)
so you may want to have a family and that's one strong motherXXXXer of a
motivator...

dude.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Dude has been ditched (returning items tomorrow). Better suited dude
> really doesn't want a romantic relationship with me. Will mention
> breakup at counselling next week, but won't let it be analyzed. Looking
> towards the future with excitement!
>
> Thanks for making me smile with that last paragraph, by the way.

Janna, it was my pleasure to make you smile. So, better suited dude is the one
you mentioned previously eh? Damn fool, he is.

Jean

>
> -Janna
> --
> ***************************************************************************
> "Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
> President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
> "Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
> and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
> "Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
> passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
> "Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
> to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
> Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
> http://geocities.com/janna_louise
> ***************************************************************************

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-04, 9:08 pm

*snip*

>
>
> Ahhh the allure of returning to an infantile state. Symbosis. I get those
> pulls too.
> <snip>

*sigh*

>
>
> Being alone, "one", used to really terrify me. It no longer does, I'm not quite
> sure what happened.
> <snip>

It hasn't scared me since I realized I was older than Mom was when she
married Dad (she was 19). Then I passed the age she was when she had
her first child (me, at age 22). After that, what's the point in
worryinb about it? If it happens, it happens.

>
>
> Ack! A fellow Canuck? I just got back from a family vacation with my girl -
> sister in Calgary, vacationed in Fairmont (what a freaking paradise that place
> is)
> and then headed out to see my parents on the Island. God I love BC. Now I'm
> sweltering here in Ottawa.

Yeah, I'm in Calgary. I like BC okay but not in the winter - it rains
way too much to make me happy. I'm an Albertan, born and bred, and I
think I like Calgary best of all the places I've lived. Born in Fort
McMurray, moved to Manning at 6 mos., down to Brooks at 6 years, over to
Rocky Mountain House at 11 years, and then to Calgary for university at
18 years. Followed by Thunder Bay at age 23, Vancouver at 25, and back
home to Calgary at 27. Like it here best. (Dad's an Anglican priest,
hence the moving around a lot.)

>
>
> Friends are good.

Friends are VERY good. We had a horrible 'breakup' when I returned to
Calgary, but after two months of not speaking to one another, we sorted
things out and forgave, and since Christmas have been becoming quite
close friends once more.

>
>
> I like it too. You'd like the author of that little gem, she's a writer who
> essentially
> does motivational speeches. She's articulate like no one I've ever met before.

Cool.

>
>
> I could've written that. I've got a dog, a cat and her kitten. I've got three
> amazing children who are on the verge of adult life..I've got a terrific family
> and cable tv. A job I love and my cupboards are full. I'm "alone" but I don't
> often feel that lonely. Part of me was damaged by past abusive relationships
> and
> it seems to have destroyed my truster.

Not sure if my single status is
> pathology
> or just plain common sense, god knows I've had my opportunities to change it and
> just decided, nah.

Sometimes I don't feel like I ever had a "truster" to begin with, but I
know it exists because I *do* trust my friends!

> I suspect you're younger than I am (me, early 40's, stressin' on the EARLY
> dammit)
> so you may want to have a family and that's one strong motherXXXXer of a
> motivator...

Yeah, I dunno. I'm 27. I expect I'll at least adopt at some point, but
I don't have to be married to do that as long as I have a decent income.
Which I don't at the moment, but will within the next five years.

>
>
> Janna, it was my pleasure to make you smile. So, better suited dude is the one
> you mentioned previously eh? Damn fool, he is.

That's what people say whenever I tell them how I feel about him. I've
known him for five years and been in love with him on and off for almost
that long. "On and off" because whenever he tells me about his latest
crush (he's never fallen for a girl who actually returned his
affections), I "stop" liking him 'that way'. Last time I stopped was
February. Ex came along in June. I decided to break up, and now this
other guy is back in the forefront of my mind. We're definitely suited
to each other, but he doesn't see it. *shrugs*

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

astri

2004-08-05, 6:05 am

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Janna Hoskin wrote:

>astri wrote:
>
>What *is* a relationship problem?
>
>Maybe I don't know.
>
>-Janna

my take on it is that it isn't necessary for there to be screaming fights
for there to be a relationship problem. i think if the partners interpret
the world so differently that they have difficulty communicating, that's a
relationship problem. i think if one partner hands all the responsibility
for making a relationshp work to the other partner, then that's a
relationship problem. i think if one partner takes upon hirself all the
responsibility for making a relationship work, then that's a relationship
problem, whether or not the other partner is happy or upset with that
arrangement. those are only a few examples of some subtle relationship
problems, imo.

-- astri

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-06, 8:28 am

>
>
> I know. It feels more like a step backwards, because for the first time
> you're actually recognizing disfunctional behaviors for what they are. But
> it really is progress. It's the first step on the road to changing those
> behaviors.

I guess that's why my counsellor told me to focus on recognizing when
I'm about to become angry about something someone's said (because I'm
taking it as an attack when it very well may not be). If I know when
I'm about to do that, I can try to defuse my anger before the fuse gets lit.

>
> OMG! I wish you lived here! I read current science fiction/fantasy and
> love to watch stupid kids' shows on TV! My husband thinks I'm a nut, I'm
> sure, but he never says anything, he just doesn't what the same shows I do!

That is *so* cool!

> Only I prefer country, and he's the one that likes rock!

Well, I don't like country much.

> It is difficult to maintain a relationship if you don't have something in
> common though. I like rock, I just prefer country. I also like his TV
> shows, I just prefer mine. Opposites may attract, but that's not much to
> maintain a relationship on.

*nodnod* And the things we have in common, I felt like there was a
competition that he won simply by virtue of the fact that he's older
than I am and has had more opportunities to succeed in certain areas of
life.

>
> Then maybe you need to look at it from that point of view. What's best for
> you right now. Breaking up is painful, but sometimes it's necessary.

*nodnod* I think this is definitely the best thing for me right now.

>
> Hope things went well.

Things went okay. I finally saw him today, returned some stuff. He
gave me back some of my writing I'd given him to read. He told me to
keep writing. Which of course I won't stop - it's part of who I am.

I gave him a letter, trying to explain a bit more. I also told him
today that I think we just went the wrong direction. He said it wasn't
the wrong direction for *him*. I said I knew that, but it was the wrong
direction for *me*. He said I was sure in the beginning, and I told him
that I was *never* 100% certain.

He wrote me a letter, too. He says in the first paragraph, "Read this
letter and know the effect you've had on my life." The next two
paragraphs are about his hopes for us as a couple... the rest of the
letter is about how I'm running away, and how my leaving him is taking
something away from myself. He says, "Out of terror you have fled back
to your small, safe, cozy little life." Apparently I'm not living fully
by breaking up with him. "You, your soul, are precious, if not to
yourself then to God, to me, to all who love you. This is why I write
these words, so that you might see how astonishing you are."

He doesn't see that I've left him because I value myself as a person.
He doesn't see that what he wrote doesn't tell me how great I am, it
tells me that he sees me as a weak, fearful woman. I am neither of
these. Well, I'm not weak, at least. I admit to having fear. But I'm
growing away from those fears; Sunday afternoon I went on three roller
coaster type rides, and last year - heck, last *month* - you wouldn't
have caught me on even the kiddie one.

I didn't stay there a long time. I had photocopying to do for work, so
I had a reason to leave. (Hooray!)

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Dragonlady

2004-08-06, 8:28 am

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2nfrdkFgpbjU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
But[vbcol=seagreen]
those[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I guess that's why my counsellor told me to focus on recognizing when
> I'm about to become angry about something someone's said (because I'm
> taking it as an attack when it very well may not be). If I know when
> I'm about to do that, I can try to defuse my anger before the fuse gets
lit.
>
That's pretty much how it works. First you learn to recognize what's
happening. Then you work on changing your reaction to an action. Choice is
what it's all about, when it comes to change.

I'm[vbcol=seagreen]
do![vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That is *so* cool!

>
>
> Well, I don't like country much.
>
in[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> *nodnod* And the things we have in common, I felt like there was a
> competition that he won simply by virtue of the fact that he's older
> than I am and has had more opportunities to succeed in certain areas of
> life.

What made you feel that way, if you don't mind my asking?

for[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> *nodnod* I think this is definitely the best thing for me right now.
>
*me*,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Things went okay. I finally saw him today, returned some stuff. He
> gave me back some of my writing I'd given him to read. He told me to
> keep writing. Which of course I won't stop - it's part of who I am.

*lol* I can't believe how much we have in common. I'm not a writer per se,
but it is one of my hobbys.

> I gave him a letter, trying to explain a bit more. I also told him
> today that I think we just went the wrong direction. He said it wasn't
> the wrong direction for *him*. I said I knew that, but it was the wrong
> direction for *me*. He said I was sure in the beginning, and I told him
> that I was *never* 100% certain.
>
> He wrote me a letter, too. He says in the first paragraph, "Read this
> letter and know the effect you've had on my life." The next two
> paragraphs are about his hopes for us as a couple... the rest of the
> letter is about how I'm running away, and how my leaving him is taking
> something away from myself. He says, "Out of terror you have fled back
> to your small, safe, cozy little life." Apparently I'm not living fully
> by breaking up with him. "You, your soul, are precious, if not to
> yourself then to God, to me, to all who love you. This is why I write
> these words, so that you might see how astonishing you are."
>
> He doesn't see that I've left him because I value myself as a person.
> He doesn't see that what he wrote doesn't tell me how great I am, it
> tells me that he sees me as a weak, fearful woman. I am neither of
> these. Well, I'm not weak, at least. I admit to having fear. But I'm
> growing away from those fears; Sunday afternoon I went on three roller
> coaster type rides, and last year - heck, last *month* - you wouldn't
> have caught me on even the kiddie one.

It strikes me that he's trying to fix things for you - or maybe trying to
fix things so they will work out the way he wants them to. Maybe you should
point out to him how his letter made you feel. If he's really trying to
build you up, he needs to find a different way to do it.

> I didn't stay there a long time. I had photocopying to do for work, so
> I had a reason to leave. (Hooray!)

Heh. Always have a backup plan!

Dragon

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-06, 8:28 am

>
> That's pretty much how it works. First you learn to recognize what's
> happening. Then you work on changing your reaction to an action. Choice is
> what it's all about, when it comes to change.

Meh. Kind of Cognitive Behavioural Psychology, isn't it? Don't know
tons about it, but it sounds like it.

>
> What made you feel that way, if you don't mind my asking?

Well, he's a writer - a poet. And he's got a book coming out this fall.
Someday I'll be a published writer, but I'm not yet, and I've not
studied writing seriously - never had the opportunity. The first letter
I wrote him, he said he liked reading it (it was just a collection of
thoughts over the course of a few days while I was away at a training
workshop) because it was so heartfelt. Nothing about some of the actual
writing in it (a lot of it was philosophical in nature, about what I was
doing at the workshop, etc. - not really a "love letter", per se), and
nothing about the ideas or how I presented them. I felt like he was
dismissing what and how I wrote because it wasn't polished or
professional. And I don't "get" his poetry really - I'm not that
literary, never have been.

>
> *lol* I can't believe how much we have in common. I'm not a writer per se,
> but it is one of my hobbies.

I love writing. I've been writing and making up stories since I was
quite small; Mom says when my first brother was an infant, I stood up on
a stool at a party (Bishops had clergy parties in those days, where all
the priests and their wives got together and shmoozed) and recited a
poem I'd made up about him.

What do you write? Mostly I write poetry about God (I've tried others,
but it doesn't work very well) and short stories that deal with various
concepts/issues I'm curious about. I've written a couple of YA books,
and I want to write a series of educational readers for autistic kids.
I also want to write a textbook about autism someday (perhaps as my
Doctoral Dissertation, should I ever reach that level of education).
And, of course, I write psych papers for school and essays and the like.
Personal essays and talks are mostly what's coming out of my fingers
these days.

>
> It strikes me that he's trying to fix things for you - or maybe trying to
> fix things so they will work out the way he wants them to. Maybe you should
> point out to him how his letter made you feel. If he's really trying to
> build you up, he needs to find a different way to do it.

Next time we talk, I will do that. I told him to call me sometimes,
because I do like talking to him. I just really think we shouldn't have
dated.

I still can't believe he wrote what he wrote and apparently thought it
would help matters.

I'm not angry, I'm just shocked.

I'm not sad it's over, but I'm also not happy it's over - by the end it
was totally a non-issue; I just knew I was done, and that was it.

>
> Heh. Always have a backup plan!

Yeah, I'm learning that one, too.

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Dragonlady

2004-08-06, 7:35 pm

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2ng4s1Fik2iU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
Choice is[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Meh. Kind of Cognitive Behavioural Psychology, isn't it? Don't know
> tons about it, but it sounds like it.

I don't know, could be. I do know it works if you work at it, and that I
didn't get it from a psychiatrist, or even a counsellor. I learned most of
it the hard way.

>
> Well, he's a writer - a poet. And he's got a book coming out this fall.
> Someday I'll be a published writer, but I'm not yet, and I've not
> studied writing seriously - never had the opportunity. The first letter
> I wrote him, he said he liked reading it (it was just a collection of
> thoughts over the course of a few days while I was away at a training
> workshop) because it was so heartfelt. Nothing about some of the actual
> writing in it (a lot of it was philosophical in nature, about what I was
> doing at the workshop, etc. - not really a "love letter", per se), and
> nothing about the ideas or how I presented them. I felt like he was
> dismissing what and how I wrote because it wasn't polished or
> professional. And I don't "get" his poetry really - I'm not that
> literary, never have been.

Never been much into poetry myself, though I write some occasionally,
usually when I'm in an emotional state (like after a friend died, and after
watching TV on 9/11).

I hate to say it, but it sounds more like his not meeting your expectations
is what the biggest problem is. I'm not sure how to explain what I mean,
but it's kind of like you were expecting one thing, and when you got
something else, it made you feel like that meant he thought you weren't good
enough? It probably doesn't help any that he's published while you're still
trying to get that first story accepted.

se,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I love writing. I've been writing and making up stories since I was
> quite small; Mom says when my first brother was an infant, I stood up on
> a stool at a party (Bishops had clergy parties in those days, where all
> the priests and their wives got together and shmoozed) and recited a
> poem I'd made up about him.

Heh, I have too, but I don't have your guts. The only ones I ever told my
stories to were my kids, and they are grown now, which means I don't even
often write them down much anymore. I did enter one of my poems in a
contest, and was shocked when it got accepted for publication in a book.
But I'm one of those people who likes to have someone to read the stories,
to help me spot mistakes, etc. I don't have anyone to do that anymore.

Occasionally, I'll get the urge and just sit down and start writing,
though.

> What do you write? Mostly I write poetry about God (I've tried others,
> but it doesn't work very well) and short stories that deal with various
> concepts/issues I'm curious about. I've written a couple of YA books,
> and I want to write a series of educational readers for autistic kids.
> I also want to write a textbook about autism someday (perhaps as my
> Doctoral Dissertation, should I ever reach that level of education).
> And, of course, I write psych papers for school and essays and the like.
> Personal essays and talks are mostly what's coming out of my fingers
> these days.

Mostly fiction for me, science fiction or fantasy mainly. Sometimes
mysteries. Used to write Star Trek fan fic back in my single days. :P I
also used to write on a newsgroup called alt.devilbunnies. I think they are
still out there, but I haven't written or read the group in ages. My nick
there was Sgt. Saak. I kind of miss those guys, maybe I should go see if
anybody I knew is still there.

to[vbcol=seagreen]
should[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Next time we talk, I will do that. I told him to call me sometimes,
> because I do like talking to him. I just really think we shouldn't have
> dated.
>
> I still can't believe he wrote what he wrote and apparently thought it
> would help matters.
>
> I'm not angry, I'm just shocked.
>
> I'm not sad it's over, but I'm also not happy it's over - by the end it
> was totally a non-issue; I just knew I was done, and that was it.

It kind of a relief to have something difficult over and done with, isn't
it?

Dragon

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-06, 7:35 pm

Dragonlady wrote:
> "Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:2ng4s1Fik2iU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> Choice is
>
>
>
> I don't know, could be. I do know it works if you work at it, and that I
> didn't get it from a psychiatrist, or even a counsellor. I learned most of
> it the hard way.

I kind of do it instinctively, but I don't always catch things in time.
Must be the psych degree. ;)

>
>
> Never been much into poetry myself, though I write some occasionally,
> usually when I'm in an emotional state (like after a friend died, and after
> watching TV on 9/11).

I almost failed the poetry class I took in university - I'm really bad
at analyzing poetry, especially all that literary stuff. I'm marginally
better with fiction, but still the symbolism often goes right over my head.

> I hate to say it, but it sounds more like his not meeting your expectations
> is what the biggest problem is. I'm not sure how to explain what I mean,
> but it's kind of like you were expecting one thing, and when you got
> something else, it made you feel like that meant he thought you weren't good
> enough? It probably doesn't help any that he's published while you're still
> trying to get that first story accepted.

That actually sounds about right. A lot of it was the tone of his voice
- off-hand, kind of like it didn't matter very much. All of this whole
thing has been like that, really. He says he doesn't want to break up,
but there's no real passion in his voice when he says it - like it
doesn't *really* matter all that much.

>
> se,
>
>
>
> Heh, I have too, but I don't have your guts. The only ones I ever told my
> stories to were my kids, and they are grown now, which means I don't even
> often write them down much anymore. I did enter one of my poems in a
> contest, and was shocked when it got accepted for publication in a book.
> But I'm one of those people who likes to have someone to read the stories,
> to help me spot mistakes, etc. I don't have anyone to do that anymore.
>

Occasionally, I'll get the urge and just sit down and start writing,
> though.

That's what I prefer - people who will read my stuff and then tell me if
there's anything I need to fix. I just joined an online critique
group... if you're interested, I'll send you the URL for joining.

>
>
> Mostly fiction for me, science fiction or fantasy mainly. Sometimes
> mysteries. Used to write Star Trek fan fic back in my single days. :P I
> also used to write on a newsgroup called alt.devilbunnies. I think they are
> still out there, but I haven't written or read the group in ages. My nick
> there was Sgt. Saak. I kind of miss those guys, maybe I should go see if
> anybody I knew is still there.

Yeah, my YA stuff is often fantasy or science fiction. The book I
really care about needs to be edited again, but I really like the story
- it's a current (well, recent past) timeline that looks at the
development of a young girl's power to hear others' thoughts and see
angels and demons. I'm also sort of working on a novel about a young
autistic girl who gets sent to a residential school - from her point of
view - but I lost a scene when I moved last summer and I feel stuck
without it.

>
> to
>
>
> should
>
>
>
> It kind of a relief to have something difficult over and done with, isn't
> it?

DEFINITELY!

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Dragonlady

2004-08-07, 10:10 pm

"Janna Hoskin" <musicalspirit@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2nijsvF1ccnjU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Dragonlady wrote:
gets[vbcol=seagreen]
I[vbcol=seagreen]
of[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I kind of do it instinctively, but I don't always catch things in time.
> Must be the psych degree. ;)

Heh, I wouldn't be so sure of that. I don't always catch things in time
even after working on it for a while! Especially with certain people. I
think it's more dependent, at least for me, on how ingrained the behavior
is.

after[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I almost failed the poetry class I took in university - I'm really bad
> at analyzing poetry, especially all that literary stuff. I'm marginally
> better with fiction, but still the symbolism often goes right over my
head.

I can't recall if I ever had to analyze poetry in the writing classes I
took. I don't do symolism (at least, not conciously) in my writing. I just
like to write a good story (or at least, what seems like a good story to
me).

expectations[vbcol=seagreen]
mean,[vbcol=seagreen]
good[vbcol=seagreen]
still[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That actually sounds about right. A lot of it was the tone of his voice
> - off-hand, kind of like it didn't matter very much. All of this whole
> thing has been like that, really. He says he doesn't want to break up,
> but there's no real passion in his voice when he says it - like it
> doesn't *really* matter all that much.

Hmmm...sometimes I do that when it actually matters very much, but I don't
want the other person to know how much it matters because I don't want to
get hurt more than necessary. As long as I can rationalize that they didn't
know, it doesn't hurt as much, if you get what I mean.

my[vbcol=seagreen]
even[vbcol=seagreen]
stories,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That's what I prefer - people who will read my stuff and then tell me if
> there's anything I need to fix. I just joined an online critique
> group... if you're interested, I'll send you the URL for joining.

Yes, please do!

I[vbcol=seagreen]
are[vbcol=seagreen]
nick[vbcol=seagreen]
if[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yeah, my YA stuff is often fantasy or science fiction. The book I
> really care about needs to be edited again, but I really like the story
> - it's a current (well, recent past) timeline that looks at the
> development of a young girl's power to hear others' thoughts and see
> angels and demons. I'm also sort of working on a novel about a young
> autistic girl who gets sent to a residential school - from her point of
> view - but I lost a scene when I moved last summer and I feel stuck
> without it.

Sounds cool. I have one in my head about kids with psychic powers, kind of
a combination gene manipulation and evolution story. But it would be novel
length, and the idea of sitting down and writing something that long without
someone to read and critique frankly scares me.
So maybe if you send me that URL I'll finally do something with it. :P

Dragon

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-08, 8:42 am

>
> Heh, I wouldn't be so sure of that. I don't always catch things in time
> even after working on it for a while! Especially with certain people. I
> think it's more dependent, at least for me, on how ingrained the behavior
> is.

Yeah. Or the sensitivities being encroached upon. Today I was in a
course and the person beside me was eating a nectarine; I had to plug
that ear so I could hear her chewing. Then the person beside me was
chewing gum, and I had to turn my head a bit so I couldn't see it. I
hate that things like that irritate me, but they do, and it's worse when
I'm stressed, which I've been lately. Plus I now have a cold. Which
sucks more.

> I can't recall if I ever had to analyze poetry in the writing classes I
> took. I don't do symolism (at least, not conciously) in my writing. I just
> like to write a good story (or at least, what seems like a good story to
> me).

I don't do symbolism, either. Heck, I just aim to tell a good story and
explore the characters some. If people get some grand meaning out of
it, bully for them. I'm in it for the story and the people I'm writing
about.

>
> Hmmm...sometimes I do that when it actually matters very much, but I don't
> want the other person to know how much it matters because I don't want to
> get hurt more than necessary. As long as I can rationalize that they didn't
> know, it doesn't hurt as much, if you get what I mean.

Yeah I do it too. Maybe that's it. It's just so annoying! The way he
talks about things... it's like there's no passion in him for anything,
and then he's upset because I don't share his passion? What passion?
*rolls eyes*

>
> Yes, please do!

http://boost4writers.com/

>
> Sounds cool. I have one in my head about kids with psychic powers, kind of
> a combination gene manipulation and evolution story. But it would be novel
> length, and the idea of sitting down and writing something that long without
> someone to read and critique frankly scares me.
> So maybe if you send me that URL I'll finally do something with it. :P

It's there!

(http://boost4writers.com/ in case you missed it ;)

I belong to a group for children's books. I need to get on the ball and
do the critiques - I keep hoping I'll be able to do it "tomorrow" or
"today" - you know. It's not that I don't want to do it, it's just that
I can't make myself do it. Drives me NUTS!

If I can get this group under control, I'll see about joining one for
the YA stuff. Maybe. One group may be all I can handle! ;)

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dustmites, 2003)
http://geocities.com/janna_louise
***************************************************************************

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-10, 7:08 pm

Baba Yaga

2004-08-10, 7:08 pm

"Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com> wrote, in alt.abuse.recovery:

>No, that's the worst. I've always said, oh god over and over, it's not the
>hurts done to me but the hurts i've done to others that have caused me the
>greatest pain.
>
>"It may be that women are kinda wired for nurturing invested in evolution. We
>believe in change".
>
>A friend of mine said that to me, just tonite. She's this amazing woman, but
>anyways..

Well, of course she is.

>Janna. Be ruthless about who you need in your life. Nobody else will be and
>those you cut away will survive, it's their job to do so.
>
>Don't be soft on yourself and don't be soft on others. It's the best way.
>Demand high standards. Be unaccepting of pathology. Don't buy the abuse self
>help book shit. You are amazing in every way (oh aren't we all, natch?) , you
>should expect that you will be. Which doesn't mean you won't have screaming at
>the moon nights. I do.

I love the way you put that. 8-)

Say all that again, will you? I like the way it sounds.

I fear that cutting people away gets to be pathology, too. Or at
least, not anti-pathology.

Baba Yaga
--
/We/ are the veil that veils us from our self.
- R.D. Laing

Luna

2004-08-10, 10:09 pm

Luna

2004-08-10, 10:09 pm

"Baba Yaga" <spamdump@phonecoop.coop> wrote in message
news:4hgih09s82dri3jj0cc7emq0bv2mapsfm1@4ax.com...
> "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com> wrote, in alt.abuse.recovery:
>
>
> Well, of course she is.

heh, all of my friends are these amazing women. Weird.
>
you[vbcol=seagreen]
at[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I love the way you put that. 8-)
>
> Say all that again, will you? I like the way it sounds.
>
> I fear that cutting people away gets to be pathology, too. Or at
> least, not anti-pathology.

It does, it's hard to cut people away. There are those I could never cut away,
ever. I'm bound to them for life, but everyone else gets to be judged.

I had a very weird and disturbing event happen to me tonite. I'm standing in
line at the checkout and the very pretty young girl behind it looks up to me and
says, "Jean?" and I say, "Yes?". I had no idea who she was.

Turns out she's Andre's sister's daughter. I asked her about Andre's son who is
now 18 and it turns out he's attending a school RIGHT across the street from me.
It hurled me into paranoia, I'm always walking my dog out there, like father
like son? Does he blame me for his father's death? Oh and he looks so much
like his father, too.

The last anecdote I heard about this boy was so sad. He was walking our dog,
Luna, right after Andre's death (his grandmother's and A's neighbourhood) and
walked by A's old home. The dog pulled on the leash and whined, wanting to go
into the building where Andre had lived with the dog. The boy began to cry and
made his way back to his grandmother's house a few blocks away.

Yeah, my heart totally broke for the boy.

Jean

>
> Baba Yaga
> --
> /We/ are the veil that veils us from our self.
> - R.D. Laing

Dragonlady

2004-08-14, 10:17 am

>
I[vbcol=seagreen]
behavior[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yeah. Or the sensitivities being encroached upon. Today I was in a
> course and the person beside me was eating a nectarine; I had to plug
> that ear so I could hear her chewing. Then the person beside me was
> chewing gum, and I had to turn my head a bit so I couldn't see it. I
> hate that things like that irritate me, but they do, and it's worse when
> I'm stressed, which I've been lately. Plus I now have a cold. Which
> sucks more.

Chewing bothers you? Or is it the noise? Colds always suck. I rarely get
them anymore, thank goodness. I think it has something to do with the fact
that I have to irrigate my sinuses with an alcolol (not alcohol) solution
because of my allergies.

>
just[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I don't do symbolism, either. Heck, I just aim to tell a good story and
> explore the characters some. If people get some grand meaning out of
> it, bully for them. I'm in it for the story and the people I'm writing
> about.

Heh. Have you ever read "The Hobbit" (prequel to "Lord of the Rings"
trilogy)? Tolkein would be rolling in his grave if he knew how seriously
people take his stories. It's full of double entendres, he wrote for fun.

don't[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
didn't[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yeah I do it too. Maybe that's it. It's just so annoying! The way he
> talks about things... it's like there's no passion in him for anything,
> and then he's upset because I don't share his passion? What passion?
> *rolls eyes*

He sounds kind of repressed. Some people don't know how to express emotion,
but in my experience, it's because they grew up with parents who were that
way - or worse, because it was always used against them.

>
> http://boost4writers.com/
>
of[vbcol=seagreen]
novel[vbcol=seagreen]
without[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> It's there!

(http://boost4writers.com/ in case you missed it ;)

Thanks, I'll check it out, though I'm not sure I qualify as a childrens
writer. Of course, considering the industry tendency to classify anything
that doesn't have sex in it as young adult, I could be wrong. :P

> I belong to a group for children's books. I need to get on the ball and
> do the critiques - I keep hoping I'll be able to do it "tomorrow" or
> "today" - you know. It's not that I don't want to do it, it's just that
> I can't make myself do it. Drives me NUTS!

Ain't procratination fun? And frustrating?

> If I can get this group under control, I'll see about joining one for
> the YA stuff. Maybe. One group may be all I can handle! ;)

Boy can I relate to that!

Dragon

Janna Hoskin

2004-08-14, 10:17 am

Dragonlady wrote:

>
> Chewing bothers you? Or is it the noise? Colds always suck. I rarely get
> them anymore, thank goodness. I think it has something to do with the fact
> that I have to irrigate my sinuses with an alcolol (not alcohol) solution
> because of my allergies.

The noise *and* the sight. What's worse is that with the sound, even
something soft being chewed makes noise I can hear, and sometimes that's
worse for me than the crunchy stuff. :P Luckily I only get a couple
each year.

>
> Heh. Have you ever read "The Hobbit" (prequel to "Lord of the Rings"
> trilogy)? Tolkein would be rolling in his grave if he knew how seriously
> people take his stories. It's full of double entendres, he wrote for fun.

Yeah, I read that many years ago. I figure, if you aren't having fun
with your writing, why do it?

>
> He sounds kind of repressed. Some people don't know how to express emotion,
> but in my experience, it's because they grew up with parents who were that
> way - or worse, because it was always used against them.

Maybe he is. I don't know. He called me this afternoon and kept going
on about missing me and wanting to talk, but he didn't seem to have
anything to talk *about*. Luckily my Mom called partway through. *sigh*

Meanwhile, the other guy I mentioned (better suited guy?) has called me
twice this week. Monday and Wednesday. Great conversations both times;
it's like we're back to before I moved away in '99. Wednesday, he asked
me why I broke up with the ex, and I said it just wasn't right; next
question was what I'm looking for. I evaded the question. Even if I
thought he could really be interested, it's not the right time, even if
I do think it's the right person.

> Thanks, I'll check it out, though I'm not sure I qualify as a childrens
> writer. Of course, considering the industry tendency to classify anything
> that doesn't have sex in it as young adult, I could be wrong. :P

Yeah, I'm appalled sometimes by what gets put in the YA section at the
library or book store. Orson Scott Card's _Ender's Game_, for one. And
another novel I read that talks about what sex feels like. Um, not
appropriate.

>
> Ain't procratination fun? And frustrating?

Yeah, it's why I've still not finished the reports for work from last
year. And why I still have dirty dishes. And why it takes me days to
do three loads of laundry.

>
> Boy can I relate to that!

I'm managing to keep on top of it this week; we'll see how next week
goes! ;)

-Janna
--
***************************************************************************
"Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you." -
President John Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522)
"Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves
and breakers have swept over me." - Psalm 42:7
"Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water
passes through..." - Nichole Nordeman, "river god" (wide eyed, 1998)
"Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like
to be your hero, I am a mighty little man!" - Steve Burns, "Mighty
Little Man" (Songs For Dust