Arthritis - spamming seems inevitable

Author

spamming seems inevitable

Norman

2006-05-08, 12:55 am

Newbies should ignore anything posted by this rusty non-judicial idiot.

ironjustice@aol.com

2006-05-08, 12:55 am

>>Newbies should ignore anything posted by this rusty non-judicial idiot<<

So .. 'Norman' says .. "no oxidative stress in arthritis" ..

That would be based on his .. abilities ..

Heh .. heh ..

<<snip>>
our study indicate
increased oxidant and decreased antioxidant presence in RA patients
<<snip>>

The above would mean 'Norman' .. MUST be .. an American ..

Heh .. heh ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

spodosaurus

2006-05-08, 10:55 am

ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> So .. 'Norman' says .. "no oxidative stress in arthritis" ..

Where did you see that? You quoted his text, and what you've written in
quotes does not appear in his text. So, either you're a lying XXXXwit, a
stupid XXXXwit, or a hallucinating XXXXwit. My money is on the final
one, seeing as you refuse to take your medication in order to lead a
semi-normal life.

By the way, tommah, you STILL have iron in your blood. Until that's
gone, I don't want to see you posting here again!

Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

ironjustice@aol.com

2006-05-08, 10:55 am

>><<snip>>
our study indicate
increased oxidant and decreased antioxidant presence in RA patients
<<snip>>
<<
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]

Makes one wonder whether 'Ari' .. too .. is .. American ..

Hate to whitewash anyone ELSE with the 'stupid' .. label ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Paul T. Holland

2006-05-08, 5:55 pm

but norman -

once again he posts an article that clearly shows cause and effect...

that it isn't the iron 'causing' the condition, but rather the condition
causing the accumulation as a side effect!

thus, he is disproving his long held theory - once again!

be well

paul

Norman wrote:

> Newbies should ignore anything posted by this rusty non-judicial idiot.

ironjustice@aol.com

2006-05-08, 5:55 pm

>>once again he posts an article that clearly shows cause and effect...
that it isn't the iron 'causing' the condition, but rather the
condition
causing the accumulation as a side effect!
<<

Yep ..

You seem to be intent on diverting peoples' attention AWAY .. from ..
what .. ?

Speak .. up ..

We both KNOW .. don't we .. Holland ..

You are a mouthpiece ..

A mouthpiece on an arthritis .. list ..

Who .. has no idea what he is talking about ..

Oxidative stress .. exists .. IN .. arthritis ..

You 'somehow' .. understand .. ? .. WHERE the oxidative stress is
coming from .. ?

Where .. jrkff ..

Explain it ..

And when you can't .. I expect you to .. stay the fk off my posts ..

Dig ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

spodosaurus

2006-05-09, 10:55 am

ironjustice@aol.com wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Makes one wonder whether 'Ari' .. too .. is .. American ..
>
> Hate to whitewash anyone ELSE with the 'stupid' .. label ..

Well, anyone with a smidgeon of intelligence could easilly see the
country I'm posting from. So I guess you being a cretin explains why you
cannot figure out something so simple.

And regarding labelling Amercians as stupid: do you really think that
saying every member of a group of 300+ million people is stupid is an
intelligent thing to say? Really tommah? Really?

Let me know when I should stop batting you about so you can go away and
cry while you compulsively masturbate.

Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Paul T. Holland

2006-05-10, 12:54 am

lololol

it's a public usenet newsgroup tommy - you haven't - and never have had -
the right to tell anyone what they may or may not write, or respond to

after all this time you still think you can dictate to another, or that
your insults have any impact at all? never worked for you in the past, why
return to that mode now?

now, as to the substance of you reply:

you have always maintained that iron is the 'cause' of so many
conditions...

your post clearly shows a connection - one of the iron being an effect, not
a cause...

therefore, you have indeed - once again - disproved your central tenant...

fine by me!

be well

paul

"ironjustice@aol.com" wrote:

> that it isn't the iron 'causing' the condition, but rather the
> condition
> causing the accumulation as a side effect!
> <<
>
> Yep ..
>
> You seem to be intent on diverting peoples' attention AWAY .. from ..
> what .. ?
>
> Speak .. up ..
>
> We both KNOW .. don't we .. Holland ..
>
> You are a mouthpiece ..
>
> A mouthpiece on an arthritis .. list ..
>
> Who .. has no idea what he is talking about ..
>
> Oxidative stress .. exists .. IN .. arthritis ..
>
> You 'somehow' .. understand .. ? .. WHERE the oxidative stress is
> coming from .. ?
>
> Where .. jrkff ..
>
> Explain it ..
>
> And when you can't .. I expect you to .. stay the fk off my posts ..
>
> Dig ..
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
> http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!
> http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
> http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

ironjustice@aol.com

2006-05-10, 10:55 am

>>therefore, you have indeed - once again - disproved your central tenant<<

I notice you did not mention your 'great understanding' OF the 'source'
FOR THE OXIDATION .. did ya .. fkhd ..

You SPECIFICALLY said .. "it is not the iron !!!!" .. but FAILED to
explain .. WHERE .. the oxidation / rust is coming from.

That means you have no fkg idea and have NOW attempted to draw / divert
peoples' attention AWAY from the FACT iron binders have been shown to
HAVE .. efficacy IN .. arthritis ..

And THAT you already .. KNOW .. don't ya ..

So .. like I said ..

Holland you are a fkg .. loser .. buddddiiiiiiieeeee ..

How's that .. feel ..

Heh .. heh .

Now don't you take no aspirin now .. ya hear ..

Heh .. heh ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Paul T. Holland

2006-05-10, 5:55 pm

lololol

having a bit of a perception problem aren't you tommy???

what i wrote was that 'you' had once again posted information that disproves
your central tenant that it's the iron that 'causes' the condition -

'your' post shows -once again - that it is a side effect, 'present' in various
degrees and conditions....

it does 'not' show that the iron causes the RA

but as always, dont' let the facts get in your way of insult and vituperation

"ironjustice@aol.com" wrote:

>
> I notice you did not mention your 'great understanding' OF the 'source'
> FOR THE OXIDATION .. did ya .. fkhd ..

gosh why would i repeat what the article already suggests, some RA patients
have increased iron loads as a side effect of their condition. just as with
many of your other posts in the past, you try to make a leap that just isn't
there.

>
>
> You SPECIFICALLY said .. "it is not the iron !!!!" .. but FAILED to
> explain .. WHERE .. the oxidation / rust is coming from.
>

no, sorry tommy, i did not say that...lololol what is wrote was:

>that it isn't the iron 'causing' the condition, but rather the condition
>causing the accumulation as a side effect!

so, tommy, i didn't write, or suggest that there wasn't oxidation - no matter
how you read it.

what i wrote addressed your primary tenat of iron causes all disease...and your
article doesn't back you up...

>
> That means you have no fkg idea and have NOW attempted to draw / divert
> peoples' attention AWAY from the FACT iron binders have been shown to
> HAVE .. efficacy IN .. arthritis ..

sorry once again tommy - i didn't write that - and it is precisely such
falsehoods by you that have caused dispute between us in the past. i post that
you are using studies that 'disprove' your central theme and you 'infer' all
kinds of things from it...

doesn't work any better for you now than it has in the past.

>
>
> And THAT you already .. KNOW .. don't ya ..
>
> So .. like I said ..
>
> Holland you are a fkg .. loser .. buddddiiiiiiieeeee ..
>
> How's that .. feel ..
>
> Heh .. heh .

you think that your silly jibes mean anything? only to you tommy, only to you.

>
> Now don't you take no aspirin now .. ya hear ..
>

i doubt that i would consider you an adequate medical expert to be taking
advice from,

perhaps one day you will be able to differentiate effect from cause, and then
- maybe - it will be possible to have a discussion that doesn't include your
being silly with taunts...

be well

paul

ironjustice@aol.com

2006-05-11, 12:55 am

>>it does 'not' show that the iron causes the RA <<

What it DOESN'T .. show .. is the CAUSE of the oxidation ..

The .. bad .. oxidation ..

YOU .. 'say' .. "it isn't iron !!!!" .. when in FACT the article says
... it .. doesn't .. know ..

Now .. iron IS .. a prime inducer of oxidation .. in fact .. THE ..
best ..

Now iron binders HAVE shown efficacy IN .. arthritis .. ie:indomethicin
, aspirin .. soooooo .. like I said .. jrkff .. 'they' don't KNOW ..
'where' the rust is coming from .. but they KNOW indomethicin and / or
aspirin .. work .. so .. it would give credence to the .. FACT .. the
'possibility' .. exists .. the prime inducer of oxidation / rust ..
iron .. IS .. involved .. IN .. the .. CAUSE ..

Now for some reason you say you are .. POSITIVE .. iron is NOT .. the
INDUCER .. of .. the peroxidation ..

Now .. I asked you before .. jrkff ..

Explain it ..

HOW do you .. KNOW .. the iron is NOT the initial .. CAUSE .. of the
oxidation ..

And like I said .. answer it .. or stay the fk off my threads ..

Because .. that MEANS .. contrary to what you would have OTHERS ..
think .. your drive does NOT come from .. helping your fellow man ..
but from .. somewhere .. deeper .. somewhere near your .. anus ..

Eh .. fkhd ..

Insight .. ?

Impeccable ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Paul T. Holland

2006-05-11, 12:55 am

sorry tommy

but you just plain fail to understand the cause and effect, as it is
currently known
as i wrote before, i prefer to take my information from multiple sources,
of acknowledged researchers, not someone who gleans their understanding
from key word searches in the hopes of somehow bolstering their claims. i
make no claims, i just read and review what is there.

what you have always failed to acknowledge is that others 'do' read studies
and reports, and draw conclusions from them - that they differ from 'your'
conclusions appears to create angst in your dealings with others.

"Free radicals are highly reactive molecules generated by biochemical redox
reactions that occur as a part of normal cell metabolism ( 1 ). These
unstable species may cause oxidative damage to DNA, carbohydrate, proteins
and lipids that are normally counteracted by protective antioxidants.
Oxidative defense is provided by a number of enzymes and vitamins,
including the vitamin E, vitamin C and glutathione ( 2 , 3 , 4 ). In
times of increased free radical production, individuals may become
deficient in these antioxidants. Excessive free radical production or low
antioxidant level leads to oxidation of cellular lipids, proteins and
nucleic acids, which results in fragmentation and cross-linking. This may
ultimately lead to cell death with widespread pathological consequences (
5 ) The imbalance between protective antioxidants (antioxidant defense)
and increased free radical production, leading to oxidative damage, is
known as oxidative stress. Oxidative stress is caused by a relative
overload of oxidants, i.e., reactive oxygen species. This impairs cellular
functions and contributes to the pathophysiology of many disease"

now:

"The generation of reactive oxygen species (free radicals) is an important
factor in the development and maintenance of rheumatoid arthritis in humans
and animal models. One source of free radicals is nitric oxide produced
within the synoviocytes and chondrocytes and giving rise to the highly
toxic radical peroxynitrite. Several cytokines, including tumour necrosis
factor-alpha (TNFalpha) are involved in the formation of free radicals"

"The polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) include the n-3 compounds, some of
which are precursors of eicosanoid synthesis, and the n-6 group which can
increase formation of the pro-inflammatory cytokines TNFalpha and
interleukin-6, and of reactive oxygen species."
Darlington L.G.1, *; Stone T.W.2

Levels of R proteins (RP) [R immunoreactive proteins] and activity of lipid
peroxidation (LPO) were measured in 209 patients with RA. It was noted that
RP levels and LPO activity correlated with the activity of inflammation. A
rapid RA progression was characterized by higher RP levels and LPO
activity, while polyarthritis by more intensive RP metabolism and LPO. A
comprehensive study of RP and LPO in RA patients may facilitate prognosis
of the destruction rate.
1996;68(12):76-8.

# The antioxidant defense system is compromised in rheumatoid arthritis
patients.
# There is a shift in the oxidant/antioxidant balance in favor of lipid
peroxidation, which could lead to the tissue damage observed in the
disease.
# Oxygen free radicals have been implicated as mediators of tissue damage
in rheumatoid arthritis (RA).
# Therapeutic coadministration of antioxidants along with conventional
drugs to such patients has been considered beneficial
# Patients with RA had lower AOP levels
# which is an indication of reduced antioxidant capacity in these patients
Durak et al (1999)
Indicating that the antioxidant system is impaired and peroxidation
reactions are accelerated in patients with RA

a result of the already impaired function, not the cause...which is of
course, why much of the current development in RA treatment has been along
the lines of tnf control...

but that's really enough of your silly name calling, you will most likely
continue with it, and since i have no intention of being affected by it,
you will only being crying in the wind.

"ironjustice@aol.com" wrote:

>
> What it DOESN'T .. show .. is the CAUSE of the oxidation ..
>
> The .. bad .. oxidation ..
>
> YOU .. 'say' .. "it isn't iron !!!!" .. when in FACT the article says
> .. it .. doesn't .. know ..
>
> Now .. iron IS .. a prime inducer of oxidation .. in fact .. THE ..
> best ..
>
> Now iron binders HAVE shown efficacy IN .. arthritis .. ie:indomethicin
> , aspirin .. soooooo .. like I said .. jrkff .. 'they' don't KNOW ..
> 'where' the rust is coming from .. but they KNOW indomethicin and / or
> aspirin .. work .. so .. it would give credence to the .. FACT .. the
> 'possibility' .. exists .. the prime inducer of oxidation / rust ..
> iron .. IS .. involved .. IN .. the .. CAUSE ..
>
> Now for some reason you say you are .. POSITIVE .. iron is NOT .. the
> INDUCER .. of .. the peroxidation ..
>
> Now .. I asked you before .. jrkff ..
>
> Explain it ..
>
> HOW do you .. KNOW .. the iron is NOT the initial .. CAUSE .. of the
> oxidation ..
>
> And like I said .. answer it .. or stay the fk off my threads ..
>
> Because .. that MEANS .. contrary to what you would have OTHERS ..
> think .. your drive does NOT come from .. helping your fellow man ..
> but from .. somewhere .. deeper .. somewhere near your .. anus ..
>
> Eh .. fkhd ..
>
> Insight .. ?
>
> Impeccable ..
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
> http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!
> http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
> http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk