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Home > Archive > HIV Aids > December 2006 > Doctor in trouble for listing cause of death on death certificate as Aids
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Doctor in trouble for listing cause of death on death certificate as Aids
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| Steve Hayes 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
| Today there was a news report about a doctor who was facing disciplinary
action from a medical body for listing Aids as a cause of death on a death
certificate, on the grounds that this was an invasion of the privacy of the
patients, and threatened the confidentiality of the doctor-patient
relationship.
That seems a strange kind of reasoning, as surely the same would apply to any
other cause of death. If it is such a threat to privacy and patient
confidentiality, then surely no causes of death should be recorded on any
death certificates at all.
There are several good reasons for recording the cause of death on death
certificates: to see if death was caused by foul play, to see what is
statistically responsible for most deaths, which can guide efforts aimed at
prevention or cure -- should we concentrate our efforts on reducing deaths
from road accidents, or snake bites, for example. Which kills more people --
shark bites or mosquito bites?
The other thing is that at an Aids seminar I went to yesterday, and in many
other similar seminars, people have urged that the stigma must be removed from
Aids. But surely keeping it off death certificates is one thing that
perpetuates the stigma. When medical people speak with two voices, one urging
the removal of the stigma, and the other urging its retention, to the extent
of prosecuting those who list it as a cause of death, there will never be
concerted action against this epidemic.
more at
http://methodius.blogspot.com/2006/11/hiv-aids-etc.html
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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| FreeSpirit_uk 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
| Hmmm... A tricky one. He maybe should have stated the final cause of death.
AIDS was what disabled the deceased's ability to fight off the illness (or
whatever) but it was the illness that killed him/her. But as you
suggested - it's a stigma thing.
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sk1cm251q7da5tt84soabsketqc3gu58ok@4ax.com...
> Today there was a news report about a doctor who was facing disciplinary
> action from a medical body for listing Aids as a cause of death on a death
> certificate, on the grounds that this was an invasion of the privacy of
> the
> patients, and threatened the confidentiality of the doctor-patient
> relationship.
>
> That seems a strange kind of reasoning, as surely the same would apply to
> any
> other cause of death. If it is such a threat to privacy and patient
> confidentiality, then surely no causes of death should be recorded on any
> death certificates at all.
>
> There are several good reasons for recording the cause of death on death
> certificates: to see if death was caused by foul play, to see what is
> statistically responsible for most deaths, which can guide efforts aimed
> at
> prevention or cure -- should we concentrate our efforts on reducing deaths
> from road accidents, or snake bites, for example. Which kills more
> people --
> shark bites or mosquito bites?
>
> The other thing is that at an Aids seminar I went to yesterday, and in
> many
> other similar seminars, people have urged that the stigma must be removed
> from
> Aids. But surely keeping it off death certificates is one thing that
> perpetuates the stigma. When medical people speak with two voices, one
> urging
> the removal of the stigma, and the other urging its retention, to the
> extent
> of prosecuting those who list it as a cause of death, there will never be
> concerted action against this epidemic.
>
> more at
>
> http://methodius.blogspot.com/2006/11/hiv-aids-etc.html
>
>
> --
> Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
> Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
> E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop
> uk
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| Bob Dubery 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
Steve Hayes wrote:
> Today there was a news report about a doctor who was facing disciplinary
> action from a medical body for listing Aids as a cause of death on a death
> certificate, on the grounds that this was an invasion of the privacy of the
> patients, and threatened the confidentiality of the doctor-patient
> relationship.
>
> That seems a strange kind of reasoning, as surely the same would apply to any
> other cause of death. If it is such a threat to privacy and patient
> confidentiality, then surely no causes of death should be recorded on any
> death certificates at all.
Technically speaking the doctor was wrong. AIDS didn't kill the
patient. Some opportunistic infection that AIDS prevented the patient's
body from fighting was the cause of death. Strictly speaking AIDS does
not kill.
But I doubt that's what this is about.
>
> There are several good reasons for recording the cause of death on death
> certificates: to see if death was caused by foul play, to see what is
> statistically responsible for most deaths, which can guide efforts aimed at
> prevention or cure -- should we concentrate our efforts on reducing deaths
> from road accidents, or snake bites, for example. Which kills more people --
> shark bites or mosquito bites?
Which is a good reason for stating that it was AIDS.
Having written all of this, it does occur to me that perhaps there is
something else going on here. How did the doctor know that the patient
had AIDS? One can't properly make the diagnosis without the necessary
tests, and the tests can't be done without consent. This is speculation
on my part - but did the doctor take a blood sample and test for AIDS
without the patient's consent?
That WOULD be an invasion of privacy - not to mention illegal
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| Bob Dubery 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
Peter H.M.Brooks wrote:
> Of course, for all of us, there is only one ultimate cause of death -
> birth.
Maybe the doctor wrote "sexually transmitted terminal disease" on the
certificate. That would be true for any death. Life has a 100%
mortality rate after all.
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"Peter H.M.Brooks" <peter@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:ek5vtg$54v$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Rasputin had only one cause of death (his heart stopped), and my aunt was
> no Rasputin.
Rasputin was not your aunt ... but despite the fact that EVERYBODY'S
heart "stops" when they die, you overlook the most obvious fact
that his body was chopped into a thousand pieces to prevent his
re-animation!
"AIDS" is not much different - the notion that a virus causes such a
wide disparity of death causation should be a source of panic - but,
yet, there is none... gee, one wonders why...
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"Bob Dubery" <megapode@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164349658.193541.153860@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Peter H.M.Brooks wrote:
>
> Maybe the doctor wrote "sexually transmitted terminal disease" on the
> certificate. That would be true for any death. Life has a 100%
> mortality rate after all.
Does it?
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| Bob Dubery 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
Life wrote:
> "Bob Dubery" <megapode@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1164349658.193541.153860@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Does it?
Absoloodely.
There is a 100% correlation. Everybody alive ends up dead.
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| Moira de Swardt 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
"Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
> "AIDS" is not much different - the notion that a virus causes such
a
> wide disparity of death causation should be a source of panic -
but,
> yet, there is none... gee, one wonders why...
Because most of the people dying of AIDS are black?
--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
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"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
news:0pednWcerIDpM_fYnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@is.co.za...
>
> "Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
>
> a
> but,
>
> Because most of the people dying of AIDS are black?
You only ask that because you are, Moira... but one must
wonder how clever a virus must be to prefer dark meat (meat
is exactly what viruses seek out, after all).
But yet again you miss the point, so here it is: if a virus is the
cause of a fatal illness, there would be a narrow set of causes
of death - viruses don't respect political boundaries and don't
present themselves at the time of death with every possible
presentation of death - including, for some African countries,
"auto accidents".
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| Moira de Swardt 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
"Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
[vbcol=seagreen]
such[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> You only ask that because you are, Moira... but one must
> wonder how clever a virus must be to prefer dark meat (meat
> is exactly what viruses seek out, after all).
You presume to read my mind?
> But yet again you miss the point, so here it is: if a virus is the
> cause of a fatal illness, there would be a narrow set of causes
> of death - viruses don't respect political boundaries and don't
> present themselves at the time of death with every possible
> presentation of death - including, for some African countries,
> "auto accidents".
HIV affects the immune system - as its name suggests. From there a
wide variety of opportunistic diseases cause death.
Which African countries list "auto accidents" as a cause of death
for AIDS or HIV?
Incidentally, the good news is that when people who are HIV positive
take ARVs correctly they are more likely to die of an auto accident
than an AIDS related disease.
--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
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"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message >
>
> HIV affects the immune system - as its name suggests.
That's why I like GRID hyphen as it's name sug-gests.
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"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
news:C8ednQqS2MMcovbYRVnyug@is.co.za...
>
> "Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
>
> such
>
>
>
> You presume to read my mind?
I presume nothing,Moira, including the ugly reality that you
have no mind of your own - you only believe the bullshit
you are paid to believe.
>
> HIV affects the immune system - as its name suggests. From there a
> wide variety of opportunistic diseases cause death.
How "opportunistic" is that? Especially for a pharmaceutical "missionary"?
> Which African countries list "auto accidents" as a cause of death
> for AIDS or HIV?
Anything sub-saharan. Anything dependent on pharma-greed.
> Incidentally, the good news is that when people who are HIV positive
> take ARVs correctly they are more likely to die of an auto accident
> than an AIDS related disease.
Wow - you really ARE a drug company missionary!
AND you understand the political correctness that goes with what
you are and what you have done to your fellow human being.
> Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Quizzling... a true drug company nigger in the finest sense of the word...
I LOVE IT!!!
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| Moira de Swardt 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
"Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
[vbcol=seagreen]
causes[vbcol=seagreen]
panic -[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I presume nothing,Moira, including the ugly reality that you
> have no mind of your own - you only believe the bullshit
> you are paid to believe.
You presume that I am black. You presume I'm employed in the field
of HIV and AIDS. Neither are true. The latter hasn't been true for
three years.
the[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
there a[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> How "opportunistic" is that? Especially for a pharmaceutical
"missionary"?
You spout rubbish.
death[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Anything sub-saharan. Anything dependent on pharma-greed.
No cite because what you say is more rubbish.
positive[vbcol=seagreen]
accident[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Wow - you really ARE a drug company missionary!
No. I just acknowledge that drugs are producing benefits.
> AND you understand the political correctness that goes with what
> you are and what you have done to your fellow human being.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Quizzling... a true drug company nigger in the finest sense of the
word...
Your bigotry is showing.
> I LOVE IT!!!
What do you love. Showing what an ignorant bigot you really are?
--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
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"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
news:Jpidnc1pI6wJUvbYRVnyjQ@is.co.za...
>
> "Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
>
> causes
> panic -
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
>
> You presume that I am black.
I presume nothing, Moira. I never said you were black.
> You presume I'm employed in the field
> of HIV and AIDS. Neither are true.
> The latter hasn't been true for three years.
Fine ... so you are NO LONGER employed as
a pharmaceutical missionary.
Let's get real here, OK?
>
> You spout rubbish.
You HAVE to believe that, otherwise you wouldn't be
able to look at yourself in the mirror.
And you STILL remain the pharmaceutical missionary,
given some of your commentary below.
>
>
> No cite because what you say is more rubbish.
Oh, so there's no corruption in sub-saharan Africa where nobody
is bending the statistics about the body count and everybody
who dies of any cause is tested for HIV post-mortem ??
Let's get real here, OK?
>
> No. I just acknowledge that drugs are producing benefits.
Sure - for Pharmaceuticals and the slugs who do their bidding.
But your claim of "producing benefits" is nothing more than rhetoric.
> word...
>
> Your bigotry is showing.
Sure, you can label me a bigot - but in your case, that is your last
refuge from the painful truth.
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| Moira de Swardt 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
"Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I presume nothing, Moira. I never said you were black.
Read above.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Fine ... so you are NO LONGER employed as
> a pharmaceutical missionary.
I have never been a pharmaceutical missionary.
> Let's get real here, OK?
I am.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> You HAVE to believe that, otherwise you wouldn't be
> able to look at yourself in the mirror.
> And you STILL remain the pharmaceutical missionary,
> given some of your commentary below.
What? Because I believe that ARVs extend both the length and the
quality of life for the vast majority of HIV positive people who
take them?
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Oh, so there's no corruption in sub-saharan Africa where nobody
> is bending the statistics about the body count and everybody
> who dies of any cause is tested for HIV post-mortem ??
Cite it.
> Let's get real here, OK?
I am real here.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Sure - for Pharmaceuticals and the slugs who do their bidding.
> But your claim of "producing benefits" is nothing more than
rhetoric.
You reckon? Why not read the testimonies of those on the drugs?
the[vbcol=seagreen]
I thought you said you didn't indicate that I was black? You are a
liar and a bigot. Again.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Sure, you can label me a bigot - but in your case, that is your
last
> refuge from the painful truth.
What painful truth? Everything that you have said is demonstrably a
lie.
--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
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|
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"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
>
>
> What? Because I believe that ARVs extend both the length and the
> quality of life for the vast majority of HIV positive people who
> take them?
>
I think the killing of red and white blood cells is a good thing.
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| gilleebee 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
| Moira de Swardt wrote:
> "Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read above.
>
>
>
> I have never been a pharmaceutical missionary.
>
>
> I am.
>
>
>
>
>
> What? Because I believe that ARVs extend both the length and the
> quality of life for the vast majority of HIV positive people who
> take them?
>
>
>
>
>
> Cite it.
>
>
> I am real here.
>
>
>
>
>
> You reckon? Why not read the testimonies of those on the drugs?
>
> the
>
> I thought you said you didn't indicate that I was black? You are a
> liar and a bigot. Again.
>
>
>
> What painful truth? Everything that you have said is demonstrably a
> lie.
And not that painful, really....
--
gilleebee
*go with the flow* ;-)
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| "Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
news:Jpidnc1pI6wJUvbYRVnyjQ@is.co.za...
>
> "Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
>
> causes
> panic -
>
>
>
>
>
> You presume that I am black. You presume I'm employed in the field
> of HIV and AIDS. Neither are true. The latter hasn't been true for
> three years.
>
> the
>
> there a
>
> "missionary"?
>
> You spout rubbish.
>
> death
>
>
> No cite because what you say is more rubbish.
>
> positive
> accident
>
>
> No. I just acknowledge that drugs are producing benefits.
>
>
>
> word...
>
> Your bigotry is showing.
>
>
> What do you love. Showing what an ignorant bigot you really are?
Why would you think him a bigot?
Please elaborate.
Ta.
Bodie.
--
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)
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"Bodie" <bodie@home.net> wrote in message
>
> Why would you think him a bigot?
>
I am bigoted. What is my crime you ask, I have an opinion.
Only a hypocrite calls someone else a bigot.
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| GMCarter 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
| On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:33:40 -0600, " Death" <Death@yourdoor.net>
wrote:
>
>"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
>
>I think the killing of red and white blood cells is a good thing.
But then you think the killing of blacks, gays and pretty much anyone
not fitting into your mold of abject bigotry, racism and homophobia is
a good thing, don't you?
| |
| GMCarter 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
| On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:18:32 -0600, " Death" <Death@yourdoor.net>
wrote:
>
>"Bodie" <bodie@home.net> wrote in message
>
>I am bigoted. What is my crime you ask, I have an opinion.
>Only a hypocrite calls someone else a bigot.
LOL...not everyone is a bigot dear. That's trying to water down the
ugliness of it to make you feel better or something?
Do people have prejudices? Sure. I think everyone does. An instant set
of judgments, good or bad, about a person's presentation based on
gender, ethnic morphology, attire.
That's not bigotry.
Evolving humans don't wallow in the filth of them and feel and express
violent ugly thoughts toward people who are black or gay as you have
repeatedly done.
While hiding anonymously! What a surprise.
George M. Carter
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| Moira de Swardt 2006-12-06, 9:26 pm |
|
"Bodie" <bodie@home.net> wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
are?
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Why would you think him a bigot?
> Please elaborate.
> Ta.
> Bodie.
The word "nigger" gives it away.
I notice you don't find it necessary to ask why he's ignorant.
That's self-evident.
--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
>
>
> --
> "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional
maturity."
> ("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)
>
>
>
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"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> But then you think the killing of blacks, gays and pretty much anyone
> not fitting into your mold of abject bigotry, racism and homophobia is
> a good thing, don't you?
>
Yes
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|
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"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
>
> The word "nigger" gives it away.
>
That is a racist, not a bigot.
I know the difference, I'm both.
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"Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
news:TfWdnUIioteXNvHYRVnygA@is.co.za...
>
> "Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read above.
YOU read above - I never said you were black - I merely voiced
my concern that you were dying of AIDS, you racist XXXXX!
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| Moira de Swardt 2006-12-06, 9:27 pm |
|
"Life" <Life@life.com> wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.ds@wol.co.za> wrote in message
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
(meat[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> YOU read above - I never said you were black - I merely voiced
> my concern that you were dying of AIDS, you racist XXXXX!
Why would you think I am HIV positive or have AIDS?
--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.
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