HIV Aids - The many faces of George M. Carter

Author

The many faces of George M. Carter

Iconoclaster

2005-10-24, 12:56 am

Mr. Carter,

In my unending quests all over the Web, I found this:

"Carter, George M. ACT UP, The AIDS War & Activism. Open Magazine Pamphlet
Series, P.O. Box 2726, Westfield, NJ 07091. 1992, 22 pp.
An examination of medical and political aspects of AIDS, critical of
"corporate, high-tech" medicine and the "single-viral cause, 'magic-bullet
cure' approach."

Strange how your past can catch up with you...
What changed your mind? Money?

GMCarter

2005-10-24, 12:56 am

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:02:03 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wgods@xs4all.nl>
wrote:

>Mr. Carter,
>
>In my unending quests all over the Web, I found this:
>
>"Carter, George M. ACT UP, The AIDS War & Activism. Open Magazine Pamphlet
>Series, P.O. Box 2726, Westfield, NJ 07091. 1992, 22 pp.
>An examination of medical and political aspects of AIDS, critical of
>"corporate, high-tech" medicine and the "single-viral cause, 'magic-bullet
>cure' approach."
>
>Strange how your past can catch up with you...
>What changed your mind? Money?

When did you stop beating your wife? They paid you to stop?

What makes you think I've changed my mind?

A) That's a review: I didn't write it. Read the original document.

B) In 1992, it was still reasonable to look for cofactThe ors. By now,
it's clear there ain't much need for one. But co-infections can
clearly have an impact on HIV disease progression.

By contrast, I'm sure your mind hasn't changed about anything since
1938.

George M. Carter

Iconoclaster

2005-10-24, 12:56 am

>"What makes you think I've changed my mind? "

I recognize an opportunist when I see one. I see leftist talk in 1992,
and rightist actions in 2005.
You give the impression you do't like this government (btw, neither do I).
So why are you participating in this government's sponsored genocide
project?

>"In 1992, it was still reasonable to look for cofactThe ors. By now, it's
clear there ain't much need for one. But co-infections can clearly have an
impact on HIV disease progression."

Oh, sure. For .357Magnum Virus infections, the cofactor (the bullet) has
a definite impact.
That may also be the case with HIV. I think, after we've found those
cofactors, there may be no need anymore for the virus itself.

>"By contrast, I'm sure your mind hasn't changed about anything since
1938"

Not so. In 1938 I still thought people were basically good, with a few
exceptions. Now I know better.

Chris Noble

2005-10-24, 12:56 am

Iconoclaster wrote:
> Mr. Carter,

> Strange how your past can catch up with you...
> What changed your mind? Money?

Is this another case of "There were no accusations. It was just a
simple question."?

Are you trying to smear people who disagree with you with allegations
of corruption?

I am in no way accusing you of using smear tactics! It was just a
simple question.

Chris Noble

GMCarter

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:42:24 -0400, "wilyretrovirus"
<purfling@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

>"B) In 1992, it was still reasonable to look for cofactThe ors. By now,
>it's clear there ain't much need for one. But co-infections can
>clearly have an impact on HIV disease progression"
>
>Can you say "doublespeak"?

Can you understand the distinction between a cofactor and a
co-infection? Perhaps not.

A co-factor would be REQUIRED for HIV to cause AIDS. Like Mycoplasma
or syphilis. There is no evidence that either of these latter
infections are necessary for AIDS to develop.

By contrast, a co-infection may have an impact on progression. Some
data suggests that hepatitis G virus may SLOW progression. Herpes
viruses of various kinds, mycobacterial and parasitic infections may
accelerate progression.

George M. Carter

GMCarter

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:31:28 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wgods@xs4all.nl>
wrote:

>
>I recognize an opportunist when I see one. I see leftist talk in 1992,
>and rightist actions in 2005.

Describe what is "rightist" about anything I've written?

>You give the impression you do't like this government (btw, neither do I).
> So why are you participating in this government's sponsored genocide
>project?

So why have you CONTINUED to beat your wife?

>clear there ain't much need for one. But co-infections can clearly have an
>impact on HIV disease progression."
>
>Oh, sure. For .357Magnum Virus infections, the cofactor (the bullet) has
>a definite impact.
>That may also be the case with HIV. I think, after we've found those
>cofactors, there may be no need anymore for the virus itself.

Then you have failed to look at the research.

>1938"
>
>Not so. In 1938 I still thought people were basically good, with a few
>exceptions. Now I know better.

That clarifies a lot. And sounds like the worldview of a capitalist
conservative repugnican.

George M. Carter

GMCarter

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

On 23 Oct 2005 19:02:10 -0700, "Chris Noble" <ChrisJNoble@hotmail.com>
wrote:

snip
>Are you trying to smear people who disagree with you with allegations
>of corruption?

Yes. He is.

Because he's too XXXXing stupid to argue on the basis of the data.

George M. Carter

Brian Mailman

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

GMCarter wrote:

> That clarifies a lot. And sounds like the worldview of a capitalist
> conservative repugnican.

I can't remember where I saw it, and I can't remember if it's someone
from the DC think tanks or an economist or both--but the comment was
that it's an error to think of them as 'capitalists.' Halliburton, etc.
is a throwback to 'mercantilism,' and the examples given were the East
India Company or Standard Oil.

B/

Iconoclaster

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

>"By contrast, a co-infection may have an impact on progression. Some data
suggests that hepatitis G virus may SLOW progression. Herpes viruses of
various kinds, mycobacterial and parasitic infections may accelerate
progression."

Hm... I understand: All these coinfections are needed to explain the
various pathogenic effects that HIV could not possibly cause.

Iconoclaster

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

>"Describe what is "rightist" about anything I've written?"

I didn't mention anything rightist you've written. I mentioned "rightist
*actions*" Don't you see, yes, doesn't everybody see you're playing their
game? You propagate the view that HIV is a dangerous virus causing AIDS.
You are in favor of getting tested. You advocate the use of ARV's. You
are in favor of the scare tactics in Africa, leading to systematic
genocide. You go strictly along with George W. Bush, President of the
Christian Republic of America.

Iconoclaster

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

>"s this another case of "There were no accusations. It was just a simple
question."?"

You should know me better by now, Mr. Noble. I am not the one asking
simple questions. I'm a lot more assertive than that.
I was just recalling a facet of Mr. Carter's past. Why do you call that
"smear tactics"? I was not even accusing him of anything illegal or
improper.
But 1992... Who was it again being elected president that year? Mr.
Carter's comments fit in well with the spirit of that time.
And who occupies the White House now? Again, Mr. Carter is in step with
the health policies of this government. Why shouldn't I call this
opportunism?

wilyretrovirus

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

"By contrast, a co-infection may have an impact on progression. Some data
suggests that hepatitis G virus may SLOW progression. Herpes viruses of
various kinds, mycobacterial and parasitic infections may accelerate
progression."

>Hm... I understand: All these coinfections are needed to explain the
various pathogenic effects that HIV could not possibly cause.

Iconoclaster,
you've got to give him credit for *trying* anyway.

Dear god, I don't know how I was able to not be taken in by all of this
bullshit for so many years. I suppose *that* was the reason...it smelled
like bullshit.

GMCarter

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:37:52 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wgods@xs4all.nl>
wrote:

>suggests that hepatitis G virus may SLOW progression. Herpes viruses of
>various kinds, mycobacterial and parasitic infections may accelerate
>progression."
>
>Hm... I understand: All these coinfections are needed to explain the
>various pathogenic effects that HIV could not possibly cause.

Clearly, you do not understand.

GMCarter

2005-10-26, 10:52 am

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:55:26 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wgods@xs4all.nl>
wrote:

>question."?"
>
>You should know me better by now, Mr. Noble. I am not the one asking
>simple questions. I'm a lot more assertive than that.
>I was just recalling a facet of Mr. Carter's past. Why do you call that
>"smear tactics"? I was not even accusing him of anything illegal or
>improper.
>But 1992... Who was it again being elected president that year? Mr.
>Carter's comments fit in well with the spirit of that time.
>And who occupies the White House now? Again, Mr. Carter is in step with
>the health policies of this government. Why shouldn't I call this
>opportunism?

Because it's a despicable misrepresentation of who I am and what I do
and what I believe. Clearly, you didn't actually READ the Open
Magazine piece. It was written during Bushit I.

And there was a LOT that Clinton did that I fought against with some
of the most incredible, passionate and beautiful people I've ever had
the privilege of knowing through ACT UP. Far too many of whom have
since died.

That's what motivates me. The ones that died. The ones still here. The
people doing the real work.

Not two-bit, second rate jackasses like you that try to pass
themselves off as "scientists" when it's clear you don't know your XXX
from a hole in the ground. You dishonor science even more than the
mythologist nutjobs that promote "intelligent design."

George M. Carter

Chris Noble

2005-10-26, 10:53 am

Iconoclaster wrote:
> question."?"
>
> You should know me better by now, Mr. Noble. I am not the one asking
> simple questions. I'm a lot more assertive than that.
> I was just recalling a facet of Mr. Carter's past. Why do you call that
> "smear tactics"? I was not even accusing him of anything illegal or
> improper.

You implied that his views had changed after accepting money from
unnamed person or body.

By all reasonable criteris this constitutes smear tactics.

Chris Noble

Chris Noble

2005-10-29, 10:51 am

Iconoclaster wrote:
>
> I didn't mention anything rightist you've written. I mentioned "rightist
> *actions*" Don't you see, yes, doesn't everybody see you're playing their
> game? You propagate the view that HIV is a dangerous virus causing AIDS.
> You are in favor of getting tested. You advocate the use of ARV's. You
> are in favor of the scare tactics in Africa, leading to systematic
> genocide. You go strictly along with George W. Bush, President of the
> Christian Republic of America.

What wonderful logic you have.
Can I borrow some?

You think condoms are bad.
The Pope thinks condoms are bad.
Therefore you go strictly along with the Pope.
QED

Chris Noble

Iconoclaster

2005-10-29, 10:51 am

>"You implied that his views had changed after accepting money from unnamed
person or body."

Did I really? What I clearly implied was that his views changed with the
political climate of the country. I said nothing about money.
But do I, deep down, think that Mr. Carter is or has been making money off
the AIDS circus? Yes, I do.
AND NOW THAT WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT, Mr.Noble: You said you are not being
paid a penny by the pharma industry. AND I BELIEVE YOU. But... did you
know there are individuals in Academia who are not paid by Big Pharma, but
who did have their entire study paid for by grants from the pharma boys?

Iconoclaster

2005-10-29, 10:51 am

>"You think condoms are bad.
The Pope thinks condoms are bad.
Therefore you go strictly along with the Pope."

Yes! Isn't that something! Never thought I'd ever agree on something
with the Pope. Ohboy, was that a surprise! But it happens all the time:

The temperance Union thought alcohol should be outlawed.
Al Capone thought alcohol should be outlawed.
And they went strictly along together.
So alcohol was outlawed.

Do you see the connection with Mr. Carter?

David Canzi -- non-mailable

2005-10-29, 10:51 am

In article <26c4f9d1ea385e81a413eee279ed7716@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>,
Iconoclaster <wgods@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>person or body."
>
>Did I really? What I clearly implied was that his views changed with the
>political climate of the country. I said nothing about money.

You said: "What changed your mind? Money?"
http://groups.google.ca/group/misc....a791cf1c89862a5

--
David Canzi "I am not denying anything." -- Celia Farber